Posting on behalf of my father as technology isn’t his thing.
Dad has just received the forms as his HGV expires in May. He sold his artic a few years ago but has until now kept the entitlement in case. At 66 he is semi-retired and has only driven an artic once in the last year, so has decided that the time is right to let it lapse. He still drives a 7.5 ton 2-4 times a week so will need to navigate the licence renewal without a DVLA mess up removing the C1 as well (valid until the day before his 70th birthday with the code 107 on the back of his current photocard.)
Note F explains that his entitlement to any category not on the new licence ends on the day they process the new licence, not when his current licence expires, which means that if the DVLA were to remove the C1 as well, he would be looking at a driving otherwise than in accordance and then probably wouldn’t have any work left by the time it were reinstated, being self-employed.
I was wondering if anyone here had recently dropped C and C+E while retaining grandfather rights until age 70 and could advise on how to respond to achieve this? The form he has received also wants a new photo, and the options are as follows:
Important note
you must indicate which entitlement you
want to be shown on your licence or you will lose your
right to drive these vehicles.
If you are renewing your full lorry or bus entitlement, we
will renew your licence at the same time.
Lorry
provisional
full
Bus
provisional
full
Car/motorcycle as it is due to expire
Licence:
I want to renew my photocard licence
without both full lorry and bus
entitlement
To update the photo on my licence
So it seems clear that he ignores the options at the top, as he’s not renewing his C and C+E and his car/motorcycle isn’t expiring as he has over 3.5 years until he’s 70 (and doesn’t fill in Section 5 for the same reasons.) Does he tick both of the options below licence, or can he just tick the photo one and they just take off the categories that are soon to expire?
He’s somewhat dreading an error being made after almost having his insurance cancelled (while a client’s goods were on the vehicle he was entitled to drive until the day before his 70th!) during his last renewal because his insurance company were oblivious to Section 88. I had wondered whether to get him to include a covering letter explaining what he wants to do also, as ‘I want to renew my photocard without both full lorry and bus’ could be read that the whole lot comes off. “I wish to renew my photocard licence with all categories that are valid until 2026, and remove only those categories which are due to expire in May 2023.” Something like that?
I can’t see the point in removing his C and C+E if he intends to keep driving C1; he will still need an age related medical and DCPC for C1. Just don’t drive artics or large rigids. Or is he in the position of maybe feeling pressurised into driving a larger vehicle than he wants to and needs an excuse not to be able to do it ?
Pre 1997 LGV C1 only needs a D4 medical at age 70 and if I remember correctly that D4 lasts for 3 years not 1 year
If you passed your driving test before 1997 you automatically obtained this C1 licence through ‘grandfather rights’ but a medical is required when you turn 70 in order for you to retain C1 entitlements for another 3 years.
cav551:
I can’t see the point in removing his C and C+E if he intends to keep driving C1; he will still need an age related medical and DCPC for C1. Just don’t drive artics or large rigids. Or is he in the position of maybe feeling pressurised into driving a larger vehicle than he wants to and needs an excuse not to be able to do it ?
No excuse needed as he’s self employed. It is purely the now annual medical required for the categories granted via HGV test pass, combined with having no intention to return to anything larger. He understands that he can get the C and C+E back upon having the medical at a later date should he change his mind and is happy with that.
The scenario ROG describes is what he wants to do, he’s wondering how he needs to complete the form in order to do this. The form makes clear that non-return leaves the driver with no licence rather than the Pre 97 car test pass licence that he wants.
Send note with form stating that driver does not want to renew D4 to retain test pass LGV categories but still wishes to retain all pre 1997 categories
That should happen as a default if a D4 is not submitted - it did with mine
I have drafted the following cover letter for him.
Driver No: Redacted - but form says to include it on any correspondence with the DVLA.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Please find enclosed the completed application forms together with an updated photograph.
I no longer wish to renew my D4 in order to retain those categories that were gained with my LGV test pass and which are due to expire on DD/05/2023. I wish to retain all other categories from my existing licence, including all those gained from my pre 1997 car test pass.
Yours faithfully,
(Name)
The photocard won’t be going anywhere. Handily, there is a checklist advising that you might retain the licence if you might need it for employment purposes, which is true in his case.
Any thoughts on whether he should cross or not the box that says I wish to renew without full lorry and bus? (I took a photo of the relevant section of the form and pasted the options given in the first post.) He will be crossing the photo one either way, as DVLA have asked him for one and enclosed the separate photo form.
ROG:
Pre 1997 LGV C1 only needs a D4 medical at age 70 and if I remember correctly that D4 lasts for 3 years not 1 year
If you passed your driving test before 1997 you automatically obtained this C1 licence through ‘grandfather rights’ but a medical is required when you turn 70 in order for you to retain C1 entitlements for another 3 years.
ROG:
Pre 1997 LGV C1 only needs a D4 medical at age 70 and if I remember correctly that D4 lasts for 3 years not 1 year
If you passed your driving test before 1997 you automatically obtained this C1 licence through ‘grandfather rights’ but a medical is required when you turn 70 in order for you to retain C1 entitlements for another 3 years.
But still needs DCPC ?.
Yes, it does. I can confirm as Dad previously subcontracted some work to a gentleman who had a pre 97 C1 and needed the DCPC.
His current CPC is good until September 2024 as with others who first needed to have done the 35 hours by September 2014. He doesn’t need a new one because he drops the LGV test categories, does he?
trucken:
Last time I renewed at age 66 I ticked the box “I wish to renew without HGV entitlement” and it came back still with C1 entitlement.
That is because those with pre 1997 licences who also passed a HGV/LGV test will have TWO LGV C1s on their licences even if both cannot be seen on it
The pre 97 one is until age 70 when a D4 medical is needed every 3 years
The one gained by passing a test needs an annual D4 medical every year after age 65
trucken:
Last time I renewed at age 66 I ticked the box “I wish to renew without HGV entitlement” and it came back still with C1 entitlement.
Thanks for confirming, this is exactly what he wants to hear. He considered only ticking the update photo option and putting in the cover letter as above, but that might run the risk of the DVLA returning the form as he wouldn’t have ticked any box regarding entitlements.
The two C1’s (and C1E’s - the LGV pass one with the full 12000kg and the pre 97 car test one subject to the 8250kg restriction) do show, but only on the online driver record. I noticed it when he asked me to generate a check code for him, as he had been asked to provide one. The photocard shows the car test C1 and C1E. I guess there’s a sort of logic to that, as the later date is when the entitlement to drive those categories ceases entirely without a medical.
Adding the outcome here in case the thread can be of use to others in the future:
Dad included the letter I posted upthread, ticking the renew without full lorry and bus option. All the pre 97 car test categories are present and correct on his new licence.
trucken:
Last time I renewed at age 66 I ticked the box “I wish to renew without HGV entitlement” and it came back still with C1 entitlement.
That is because those with pre 1997 licences who also passed a HGV/LGV test will have TWO LGV C1s on their licences even if both cannot be seen on it
The pre 97 one is until age 70 when a D4 medical is needed every 3 years
The one gained by passing a test needs an annual D4 medical every year after age 65
Daft aint it
You’re not kidding.I bet it would be easier joining the bleedin C.I.A
Aarrgh:
Adding the outcome here in case the thread can be of use to others in the future:
Dad included the letter I posted upthread, ticking the renew without full lorry and bus option. All the pre 97 car test categories are present and correct on his new licence.
Thanks again to all of you who helped.
Salutations good sir,this is the meat and potato issue stuff that warrants coverage.Steeling myself for a possible return to the trade and this has certainly got my attention.
manalishi:
.Steeling myself for a possible return to the trade and this has certainly got my attention.
I’m sure there are all different possibilities of C1 work. But would I be right in presuming there would be a lot more propensity for strenuous hand balling involved with C1 compared with C work?
