A recent change to the Tachograph analysis software the firm I work for uses, causes infringements if a driver removes or inserts their card whilst on break or during daily rest.
For example a driver could drive 4:30 hours have 42 minutes break, take their card out, to switch vehicles for example, take 5 minutes moving to other vehicle and then insert the card, have another 5 minutes break, and then drive again, and they would pick up a 4:30 drive infringement on the analysis software despite having 52 minutes break.
Likewise, a driver could start their daily rest, have 30 minutes break, take out their card and have another 8:50 rest and receive a “not had minimum daily rest offence”
As I say this is a relatively recent issue and it’s annoying me and other drivers.
Why has it only become an issue recently too?
The software provider said it’s to do with DVSA guidance on making start and end place records. When the card is inserted or removed the driver is prompted to make these records, and that manual input from the driver is what is causing it.
I’m having a hard time from drivers, and I kinda don’t even know what to say because it seems dumb af.
Can you honestly be on break if you are changing vehicles?
Deycallmethetachoman:
For example a driver could drive 4:30 hours have 42 minutes break, take their card out, to switch vehicles for example, take 5 minutes moving to other vehicle and then insert the card, have another 5 minutes break, and then drive again, and they would pick up a 4:30 drive infringement on the analysis software despite having 52 minutes break.
Cosmic:
These infringements will only happen if you don’t do manual entries properly. Also, why all the fannying about, if you are on rest?
Okay good, thanks for responding, i’m not a driver, and this is what I tell the drivers, basically if you are on break or daily rest you shouldn’t be touching the tachograph at all, because well… they’re on break. Some drivers are giving me grief over this, and it’s annoying because I understand their frustrations, it seems rather pedantic tbh. but as you say they just need to not fanny around with it whilst on break. I told the driver to take his card out at the start or very end of his break to avoid this but he just gave a sarcastic response about how as far as he is concerned changing vehicles is a definite need to take the card out, to which I responded that there is no issue with him taking the card out but just do it at the very start or end of break so he gets the 45 mins in uninterrupted.
People at a former workplace of mine were getting flagged for this a decade or more ago and the answer was “are you resting and recuperating whilst changing your card and swapping vehicles” as that what the legal definition says. No answer to that.
As you say, take card out at start, manual entry in new vehicle AFTER 45 minutes BUT TELL THEM TO MAKE SURE THEYVE HAD 45 MINUTES* or have the 45 then take the card out - the latter is the most foolproof way.
*doing it this way round causes problems due to time differences between tacho units and inevitably some breaks will still be cut short and you’ll also get a load of time overlap events.
As for the drivers tell them it’s an instruction not advice. And also tell them to stop being a group of fannies.
Cosmic:
These infringements will only happen if you don’t do manual entries properly. Also, why all the fannying about, if you are on rest?
Okay good, thanks for responding, i’m not a driver, and this is what I tell the drivers, basically if you are on break or daily rest you shouldn’t be touching the tachograph at all, because well… they’re on break. Some drivers are giving me grief over this, and it’s annoying because I understand their frustrations, it seems rather pedantic tbh. but as you say they just need to not fanny around with it whilst on break. I told the driver to take his card out at the start or very end of his break to avoid this but he just gave a sarcastic response about how as far as he is concerned changing vehicles is a definite need to take the card out, to which I responded that there is no issue with him taking the card out but just do it at the very start or end of break so he gets the 45 mins in uninterrupted.
Are they all on jobnknock? Why are they working on a break, and then moaning when they are pulled up for it?
If you`re a younger “wet behind the ears” (in their eyes!) kid, then you will get grief from them.
But they are in the wrong.
toonsy:
As for the drivers tell them it’s an instruction not advice. And also tell them to stop being a group of fannies.
Easier for an ole ■■■■ to tell them they are wrong. We`ve got walking sticks to thump them wiv!
Deycallmethetachoman:
A recent change to the Tachograph analysis software the firm I work for uses, causes infringements if a driver removes or inserts their card whilst on break or during daily rest.
For example a driver could drive 4:30 hours have 42 minutes break, take their card out, to switch vehicles for example, take 5 minutes moving to other vehicle and then insert the card, have another 5 minutes break, and then drive again, and they would pick up a 4:30 drive infringement on the analysis software despite having 52 minutes break.
Likewise, a driver could start their daily rest, have 30 minutes break, take out their card and have another 8:50 rest and receive a “not had minimum daily rest offence”
As I say this is a relatively recent issue and it’s annoying me and other drivers.
Why has it only become an issue recently too?
The software provider said it’s to do with DVSA guidance on making start and end place records. When the card is inserted or removed the driver is prompted to make these records, and that manual input from the driver is what is causing it.
I’m having a hard time from drivers, and I kinda don’t even know what to say because it seems dumb af.
If they had the 42 mins break , then put the 5 mins moving truck whilst the card was out as rest , manual entry when they reinserted it , then that would surely show 47 mins rest on the card ? It’s not legal obviously as they were moving trucks but I’d of thought when they analysed the data on the card it would be ok , show 47 mins rest
I’m with the one above who said it’s because there not doing manual entries , there just putting card in new lorry so it counts the 5 mins as work
As for daily rest , I’d of thought you either remove card for full 9/11 hrs or leave it in and move the mode to rest , but if they’ve had 30 mins rest , then put a manual entry in for the other 8hrs 30 then I’d of thought that would be 9 hrs rest .
I’d try it , spare truck put on break for 30 mins , then remove , manual entry when you put it back in 8 hrs 30 , rest , I’d be interest to know what it shows as well
As soon as they touch tacho whilst on break they are breaking their rest period therefore it resets & the break has to begin again, can’t believe people who have supposedly passed a dqc still forget this point
Bodian:
As soon as they touch tacho whilst on break they are breaking their rest period therefore it resets & the break has to begin again, can’t believe people who have supposedly passed a dqc still forget this point
But that’s not what happens. Break for 39 mins, drive the lorry for less than a minute and get it back on break and your break will continue on.
Might not be legal? But it’s how tachos work.
Deycallmethetachoman:
For example a driver could drive 4:30 hours have 42 minutes break, take their card out, to switch vehicles for example, take 5 minutes moving to other vehicle and then insert the card, have another 5 minutes break, and then drive again, and they would pick up a 4:30 drive infringement on the analysis software despite having 52 minutes break.
But you haven’t had 52 minutes break, you cannot change over vehicles whilst on break, that’s other work so the infringement is a fair one.
Deycallmethetachoman:
Likewise, a driver could start their daily rest, have 30 minutes break, take out their card and have another 8:50 rest and receive a “not had minimum daily rest offence”
In the circumstances you’ve described it seems pretty clear that you are ejecting the card as part of your duties to end the shift so the infringement for insufficient rest is fair.
If you’re going to eject your driver card to finish the shift it has to be at the end of the shift and before you start your daily rest period.
The bigger question is why wasn’t the previous tachograph analysis software picking up on these obvious infringements
stu675:
Break for 39 mins, drive the lorry for less than a minute and get it back on break and your break will continue on.
Might not be legal? But it’s how tachos work.
Are you sure about that ?
I’m not saying that could never happen but given that any full minute the tachograph records will be accredited to the activity that took up the larger part of the full minute I think you’d need a lot of luck to get away with that to be honest.
Theoretically it may always work if the movement is less than 30 seconds (I’m not entirely sure) but I think movements of over 30 seconds is relying on luck.
Deycallmethetachoman:
A recent change to the Tachograph analysis software the firm I work for uses, causes infringements if a driver removes or inserts their card whilst on break or during daily rest.
For example a driver could drive 4:30 hours have 42 minutes break, take their card out, to switch vehicles for example, take 5 minutes moving to other vehicle and then insert the card, have another 5 minutes break, and then drive again, and they would pick up a 4:30 drive infringement on the analysis software despite having 52 minutes break.
Likewise, a driver could start their daily rest, have 30 minutes break, take out their card and have another 8:50 rest and receive a “not had minimum daily rest offence”
As I say this is a relatively recent issue and it’s annoying me and other drivers.
Why has it only become an issue recently too?
The software provider said it’s to do with DVSA guidance on making start and end place records. When the card is inserted or removed the driver is prompted to make these records, and that manual input from the driver is what is causing it.
I’m having a hard time from drivers, and I kinda don’t even know what to say because it seems dumb af.
Software is spot on its YOU thats at fault,working whilst on break
Bodian:
As soon as they touch tacho whilst on break they are breaking their rest period therefore it resets & the break has to begin again, can’t believe people who have supposedly passed a dqc still forget this point
But that’s not what happens. Break for 39 mins, drive the lorry for less than a minute and get it back on break and your break will continue on.
Might not be legal? But it’s how tachos work.
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You have to manually put it back to break but it still registers on your card & would be seen by software & if officers did a speedtrace so therefore it ain’t how tachos work,
Face it, you can’t do anything when you are supposedly on break & expect it not to be picked up somewhere down the line
stu675:
Break for 39 mins, drive the lorry for less than a minute and get it back on break and your break will continue on.
Might not be legal? But it’s how tachos work.
Are you sure about that ?
I’m not saying that could never happen but given that any full minute the tachograph records will be accredited to the activity that took up the larger part of the full minute I think you’d need a lot of luck to get away with that to be honest.
Theoretically it may always work if the movement is less than 30 seconds (I’m not entirely sure) but I think movements of over 30 seconds is relying on luck.
If you drive for under 30secs, bang it back on break straight away, as soon as you stop, then the driver card will only record break.
However…the speed trace will still record that movement.
So, if you just very occasionally need to shunt in a lay-by, you`ll probably be OK.
If you are trying to move in a queue, such as clearing customs and youre on a limited ferry movement, or moving off a bay every night, you could be "found out". It isnt clear on first analysis, but it is there is someone takes an interest and looks deeper.
Franglais:
If you drive for under 30secs, bang it back on break straight away, as soon as you stop, then the driver card will only record break.
However…the speed trace will still record that movement.
So, if you just very occasionally need to shunt in a lay-by, you`ll probably be OK.
If you are trying to move in a queue, such as clearing customs and you`re on a limited ferry movement, or moving off a bay every night, you could be “found out”.
If you’re in a long queue of hairy arsed truckers and you keep moving for 29 seconds then stopping for 31 seconds over and over again I suspect the DVSA may be the least of your worries
Franglais:
If you drive for under 30secs, bang it back on break straight away, as soon as you stop, then the driver card will only record break.
However…the speed trace will still record that movement.
So, if you just very occasionally need to shunt in a lay-by, you`ll probably be OK.
If you are trying to move in a queue, such as clearing customs and you`re on a limited ferry movement, or moving off a bay every night, you could be “found out”.
If you’re in a long queue of hairy arsed truckers and you keep moving for 29 seconds then stopping for 31 seconds over and over again I suspect the DVSA may be the least of your worries
When lots are playing the same (silly) game, it raises no eyebrows at all.
The ones with a full card to play with just trickle along slowly, those trying to conserve their movement use the full-throttle/full-brake method. Followed by a swift hand up to press the button.
Edit to add.
In customs queues it is sometimes, shunt one lorry length every 5 or 6 mins. Not much driving time, but as I said, if you`ve only got an hours movement available…
Park up and get a boat 9 hours later.
