just read this …a move to allow motorists to move straight on to trucks( I wonder who will give the keys to a two hundred grand truck ) …easy this job all you need is a sat nav or phone ,right wheres it going gov ,should be a laugh if nothing else
I can’t find anything about this on the internet, a link would help.
People who passed the car test before 1997 can already drive an HGV up to 7.5 tonnes and I honestly can’t see that limit going up any time soon.
Someone may be making noises about it but I can’t see it going any further than that.
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tachograph:
I can’t find anything about this on the internet, a link would help.People who passed the car test before 1997 can already drive an HGV up to 7.5 tonnes and I honestly can’t see that limit going up any time soon.
Someone may be making noises about it but I can’t see it going any further than that.
Sent from my mobile via Tapatalk.
It’s been reported in the Daily Telegraph; and I don’t happen to think it’s a bad idea.
Many of us started our careers on “puddle-jumpers”, myself included. prior to the 7.5 tonne GVW limit, you could drive a goods vehicle up to 3 tons unladen on a car licence. The C1 vehicle category has become not only a mainstay of untility companies and councils, but also parcels, small businesses and the hire sector; and now, thanks to the law of unintended consequences, there’s a shortage of qualified drivers. Add into this the fact that weight limits are centred around that definition. Modern "car licence " vehicles (i.e. up to 3.5 tonnes GVW) struggle to carry a ton payload and so unless something is done it means more vehicles on the road, clearly not a good idea.
Fact; many of the jobs associated with 7.5 driving are what most would consider a “young man’s game”, and the youngest of those drivers to hold automatic entitlement is now in their early forties. It’s also a given that many youngsters cut their teeth on a 7.5, before either graduating to a full-blown HGV or deciding that it wasn’t the job for them; so effectively a useful filter for candidates who would no longer have to spend a couple of grand to find out that “living the dream” ain’'t that much fun after all.
Given that such vehicles still need a tacho, I don’t foresee that the relaxation will mean that they automatically become exempt, so DCPC qualification will still be needed. To allay reservations from the safety lobby (some of which do have a measure of justification) it would be sensible to include a mandatory day of hands-on training in the course. It would also partly compensate the training industry for the loss of business.
I think it’s a workable idea. The only downside will be that with a higher number of available drivers, wages will drop; 7.5 rates are often on a par with Cat C these days.
Modern "car licence " vehicles (i.e. up to 3.5 tonnes GVW) struggle to carry a ton payload and so unless something is done it means more vehicles on the road, clearly not a good idea.
Wait until DVSA start to Tacho 3.5 tonnes, then see how many there will be on the road 
SWEDISH BLUE:
Modern "car licence " vehicles (i.e. up to 3.5 tonnes GVW) struggle to carry a ton payload and so unless something is done it means more vehicles on the road, clearly not a good idea.
Wait until DVSA start to Tacho 3.5 tonnes, then see how many there will be on the road
There’s that as well. Should however see an end to the Polish Sprinters which seem to be everywhere; I’m convinced many of them run illegally.
So, this is about allowing all car passes to drive up to 7.5T not the current 3.5T? (Again)
If there is a shortage of drivers, then maybe steps should be taken.
But is dropping the bar the way to go? Maybe better pay, that would justify the cost of professional training would be better?
A big 7.5T can be larger than a smaller 18t vehicle.
I too am one of those old ■■■■■ who was let loose on a non-HGV truck, back in the 70s. I avoided causing too much mayhem, but that doesnt mean it was a good idea. I was just a bit lucky. (and so was everyone around me!)
I reckon on keeping standards higher, rather than dropping them. Arent we already a victim of the race to bottom culture? Dont we already see too many steering wheel attendants? Dont lets have more of it.
This was mentioned a little while back as a result of Brexit and going back to the 7.5t entitlement on a car licence, which was removed in '97 in order to fall in line with Europe.
I have previously come across drivers that had the entitlement but never used it, until they came to where I was at the time.
The (somewhat expected) carnage ensued.
Dav1d:
This was mentioned a little while back as a result of Brexit and going back to the 7.5t entitlement on a car licence, which was removed in '97 in order to fall in line with Europe.
I have previously come across drivers that had the entitlement but never used it, until they came to where I was at the time.
The (somewhat expected) carnage ensued.
Don’t see much difference between this and scrapping the rules on trailer tests.
Sidevalve:
SWEDISH BLUE:
Modern "car licence " vehicles (i.e. up to 3.5 tonnes GVW) struggle to carry a ton payload and so unless something is done it means more vehicles on the road, clearly not a good idea.
Wait until DVSA start to Tacho 3.5 tonnes, then see how many there will be on the roadThere’s that as well. Should however see an end to the Polish Sprinters which seem to be everywhere; I’m convinced many of them run illegally.
Isn`t that an argument for more regulation, rather than less?
Or at least more checks and enforcement of existing regs?
The EU dropping O-licence requirements from 3.5 to 2.5t is trying to combat these largely unregulated vans undercutting rates for “proper” professional transporters. The UK is not following suit. More of the race to cut costs by cutting standards, or at least not raising them.
tachograph:
I can’t find anything about this on the internet, a link would help.People who passed the car test before 1997 can already drive an HGV up to 7.5 tonnes and I honestly can’t see that limit going up any time soon.
Someone may be making noises about it but I can’t see it going any further than that.
Sent from my mobile via Tapatalk.
Franglais:
Isn`t that an argument for more regulation, rather than less?
Or at least more checks and enforcement of existing regs?The EU dropping O-licence requirements from 3.5 to 2.5t is trying to combat these largely unregulated vans undercutting rates for “proper” professional transporters. The UK is not following suit. More of the race to cut costs by cutting standards, or at least not raising them.
The UK doesn’t need to follow suit. For those vehicles to get here, they’ve got to pass through the EU.
DVSA already have powers to enforce proper use of vans below tacho limit. And they use them.
Sidevalve:
Franglais:
Isn`t that an argument for more regulation, rather than less?
Or at least more checks and enforcement of existing regs?The EU dropping O-licence requirements from 3.5 to 2.5t is trying to combat these largely unregulated vans undercutting rates for “proper” professional transporters. The UK is not following suit. More of the race to cut costs by cutting standards, or at least not raising them.
The UK doesn’t need to follow suit. For those vehicles to get here, they’ve got to pass through the EU.
DVSA already have powers to enforce proper use of vans below tacho limit. And they use them.
I`m saying that de-regulation leads to poorer standards.
The way to go is raising UK standards, not keeping them the same, and certainly not dropping them.
Franglais:
I`m saying that de-regulation leads to poorer standards.
The way to go is raising UK standards, not keeping them the same, and certainly not dropping them.
Over-regulation has largely contributed to the demise of the British road haulage industry. It does not necessarily lead to higher standards; just more paperwork and more jobs for those in white shirts, clipboard and yellow hi-viz who don’t know how to do your job but are qualified to tell you that you’re doing it wrong.
Double standards leads to unfair competition.
Having strongly regulated and enforced standards means the chancers can`t undercut those who do the job professionally.
Allowing lighter vehicles to compete with heavier ones, but not expecting the same level of hours regulation, safety checks, will not do us good.
Instead of having of having just 3.5T vans undercutting us its a step nearer 7.5T light trucks undercutting us. If no special licence is required, what next? No DCPC? No tacho? No O-Licence? Isnt that the direction of travel here? Anything to get costs down.
Im not for those in hi-viz who talk out the back of their....heads, any more than you do. But dont mix up idiots making up regulations out of thin air, with proper regulation to stop cowboys cutting corners.
Franglais:
Double standards leads to unfair competition.Having strongly regulated and enforced standards means the chancers can`t undercut those who do the job professionally.
Allowing lighter vehicles to compete with heavier ones, but not expecting the same level of hours regulation, safety checks, will not do us good.Instead of having of having just 3.5T vans undercutting us it
s a step nearer 7.5T light trucks undercutting us. If no special licence is required, what next? No DCPC? No tacho? No O-Licence? Isnt that the direction of travel here? Anything to get costs down.I
m not for those in hi-viz who talk out the back of their....heads, any more than you do. But dont mix up idiots making up regulations out of thin air, with proper regulation to stop cowboys cutting corners.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting total de-regulation for 7.5 tonners. The drivers and operators would still be bound by DCPC and O-licence rules; the more so if the proposed 2.5 tonne GVW threshold becomes law.
An interesting point raised on a parallel discussion on this topic on the Daily Telegraph website; it being a given that electric vehicles have a higher unladen weight, in order for them to carry a similar payload to today’s ICE vehicles the GVW would need to be proportionately greater. Therefore in order for current drivers to morph to the electric vehicles, the rules will need to be changed. The alternative is even more small vans, when there are already far too many on the streets of our cities.
Sidevalve:
don’t think anyone is suggesting total de-regulation for 7.5 tonners. The drivers and operators would still be bound by DCPC and O-licence rules; the more so if the proposed 2.5 tonne GVW threshold becomes law.An interesting point raised on a parallel discussion on this topic on the Daily Telegraph website; it being a given that electric vehicles have a higher unladen weight, in order for them to carry a similar payload to today’s ICE vehicles the GVW would need to be proportionately greater. Therefore in order for current drivers to morph to the electric vehicles, the rules will need to be changed. The alternative is even more small vans, when there are already far too many on the streets of our cities.
True, there seems no plans at the moment to drop anything else, just the licence requirement.
But if 7.5t vehicles become more popular, then wont the operators start saying "they arent real trucks, you dont need a special licence, so why an O-licence?" or "I can hire one of these on my car licence, I can have tons of my gear in it,why shoudnt I carry someone else`s?"
Why let someone drive one without a special licence, to keep costs down, but still expect them to pay for DCPC costs?
On electric vehicles and weights? I can see weights changes happening.
To-day we have rules based on gross weights. As you pointed out, previously it was about unladen weight. Maybe it will change to carrying capacity? (Not just that, and only in limits, also axles, dimensions, etc)
Some places change weights to encourage safety features: fitting a proper retarder is a penalty as you can`t carry so much, unless you up the allowable GVW.
Changing weights to encourage other things? I reckon they will try it.
And is the only alternative more smaller vans?
I reckon it should be better pay and conditions for 7.5t drivers, so paying for training to get a proper licence is an investment not a barrier.
Franglais:
And is the only alternative more smaller vans?
I reckon it should be better pay and conditions for 7.5t drivers, so paying for training to get a proper licence is an investment not a barrier.
No. It might end up being more practical to revert to an even more-old-fashioned method, the driver’s mate.
Certainly for inner-city areas, using a lad with a barrow to “work the street” whilst the driver sorts the parcels for the next batch in the back, as used to happen donkeys’ years ago in places like Lincoln when I first worked for Rainbow Nightfreight.
I think UPS already do this in London.
Do you mean allowing those that drive cars to go straight to class 1? We have several at my depot already….and yes, their standards and abilities are way lower than those that went up through the ranks over a few years
Go back 50+ years, and you could drive anything as long as you had a licence.
Ken.
Go back even further and walk into a Post Office, pay the money and walk out with a heavy vehicle licence