A new law coming into force, could see dangerous drivers imprisoned for life…
I would be happy if this line was extended to the removal of all speed enforcement, drink drive enforcement, red light enforcement, basically only a consequence based punishment system rather than a perceived risk system that we have.
stu675:
I would be happy if this line was extended to the removal of all speed enforcement, drink drive enforcement, red light enforcement, basically only a consequence based punishment system rather than a perceived risk system that we have.
Sounds like the justice system of a Latin American banana republic.There are numerous scenarios in which a fatal collision isn’t the fault of the driver or surviving driver.
Also bearing in mind the potential for crash for cash scams going wrong and drivers or witnesses lying about or confusing the circumstances thereby sending an innocent person down.
Such as someone accelerating while being overtaken.All the evidence will put the blame on the overtaking driver with no way of proving who was really to blame.Be careful what you wish for.
stu675:
I would be happy if this line was extended to the removal of all speed enforcement, drink drive enforcement, red light enforcement, basically only a consequence based punishment system rather than a perceived risk system that we have.
I take it that you consider that revenge for the consequences of a wrong is preferable to having tried to prevent the wrong ever taking place?
If I were to be maimed or killed by a drunk/speeding/ signal jumping/ (take your pick) driver, it would be scant comfort to know that the perpetrator would receive a heavy, but finite punishment, as i would be maimed, or dead, forever.
Or, am I misunderstanding your position?
Something to think about for those sat on the back bumpers of cars in roadworks etc,. 
(For some unknown reason usually an over blinged to the point of bad taste motor and mostly a one pulling a tipper trailer. 
)
Saw one the other week 3 lanes of rush traffic running about 50 mph, a knobhead right up this car’s exhaust pipe.
Ok I get the frustration aspect if said car was out on his own middle lane hogging…, but he could neither pull back into lane 1 nor overtake in lane 3, but this knob head was harassing him anyway.
Still,.I reckon 20 years behind bars in Durham would be a relief from his stress laden work life outside. 
Old John:
stu675:
I would be happy if this line was extended to the removal of all speed enforcement, drink drive enforcement, red light enforcement, basically only a consequence based punishment system rather than a perceived risk system that we have.I take it that you consider that revenge for the consequences of a wrong is preferable to having tried to prevent the wrong ever taking place?
If I were to be maimed or killed by a drunk/speeding/ signal jumping/ (take your pick) driver, it would be scant comfort to know that the perpetrator would receive a heavy, but finite punishment, as i would be maimed, or dead, forever.
Or, am I misunderstanding your position?
I would just like an ideal world where everyone took responsibility for their actions so that no harm came to anybody else. But we didn’t have to follow the silly rules that other people thought were appropriate for us.
I saw this article on the BBC News website, I knew it’s been proposed for a number of years since the horrific accident on the A34 when the woman and children were killed in the Vauxhall Corsa and the HGV driver was filmed by the in cab recording to be messing around on his iTunes at the point of impact
It’s a sobering thought that every time you start a shift that you could be involved in criminal proceedings which result in a life sentence in prison, given the average age of a UK Class One HGV licence holder is 57 years old, that’s condemning to die behind bars, a whole life tariff
That’s the weight of responsibility on a driver’s shoulders, not the pointy shoe gelled hair adolescent in the office who’s planned the driver’s work but never actually even sat in a wagon
Who here hasn’t at one point felt drowsy behind the wheel? You’re working long hours, you get poor if any sleep, you’re sat in your air suspended armchair , automatic transmission, cab heater on, it’s dark and cold outside and you’ve got the cruise control on and people wonder why drivers nod off
The next thing you know you’ve ploughed into the back of the standing traffic and your life just went down the toilet, it’s as quick and easy as that
bigdave789:
Who here hasn’t at one point felt drowsy behind the wheel? You’re working long hours, you get poor if any sleep, you’re sat in your air suspended armchair , automatic transmission, cab heater on, it’s dark and cold outside and you’ve got the cruise control on and people wonder why drivers nod off
The next thing you know you’ve ploughed into the back of the standing traffic and your life just went down the toilet, it’s as quick and easy as that
Yeah but you know you’re getting tired before you get to that point. The majority of bad lorry driving I see that is likely to end up in an accident has nothing to do with fatigue. I had one muppet on the A66 on Friday night as we’re coming to the end of the DC section before Bowes heading Westbound right up my arse, literally not even a car away as we’re doing 60 dropping down the hill sticking his cab out to see if he can do an overtake when we’ve already passed the signs for the end of the DC and it’s started to go into one lane and he can’t claim ignorance of the road because it was a transport company from Penrith.
bigdave789:
I saw this article on the BBC News website, I knew it’s been proposed for a number of years since the horrific accident on the A34 when the woman and children were killed in the Vauxhall Corsa and the HGV driver was filmed by the in cab recording to be messing around on his iTunes at the point of impact
It’s a sobering thought that every time you start a shift that you could be involved in criminal proceedings which result in a life sentence in prison, given the average age of a UK Class One HGV licence holder is 57 years old, that’s condemning to die behind bars, a whole life tariff
That’s the weight of responsibility on a driver’s shoulders, not the pointy shoe gelled hair adolescent in the office who’s planned the driver’s work but never actually even sat in a wagon
Who here hasn’t at one point felt drowsy behind the wheel? You’re working long hours, you get poor if any sleep, you’re sat in your air suspended armchair , automatic transmission, cab heater on, it’s dark and cold outside and you’ve got the cruise control on and people wonder why drivers nod off
The next thing you know you’ve ploughed into the back of the standing traffic and your life just went down the toilet, it’s as quick and easy as that
Effectively it’s the American type offence of vehicular homicide as shown in the film Black Dog.
At the very least it makes the drivers’ hours rules and anything more than 4 on 4 off a liability for all concerned.
Also the grey are of night work and body clock issues which the 4 on 4 off pattern could make even worse requiring a different type of rest regime like 8 week’s holiday and 4 on 8 off shift pattern.It will take at least 4 days of that 8 day weekend to adjust the body clock at home not on the road, if you want to live a proper life.
Contrary to Conor’s ideas, by its nature the borderline between inevitably feeling a bit tired at the 11 or 12 hours mark and totally switching off into sleep after that, is an instantaneous and unpredictable and unconscious event.
Bearing in mind all the automated protection systems that train drivers have the luxury of.
bigdave789:
I saw this article on the BBC News website, I knew it’s been proposed for a number of years since the horrific accident on the A34 when the woman and children were killed in the Vauxhall Corsa and the HGV driver was filmed by the in cab recording to be messing around on his iTunes at the point of impact
Tomasz Kroker, I’d be content to have seen him get a life sentence, and I bet the parents of those children would too; especially as he appealed his 10 year sentence, thinking it unfair punishment for killing three children and one adult.
This law isn’t just about truck drivers though, plenty of killer car drivers out there.
I’d have considered it fair to see this guy get a life sentence too, instead of 8 years and 10 months
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-59951710
i think its a publicity thing, they can already get 14 years but carnt remember seeing anyone getting the maximum
The life sentence is the headline, the real concern is imprisonment for causing serious injury by driving without due care & attention. Serious injury has a quite low threshold such as breakages or a precautionary overnight in hospital, and due care also has a very low threshold. That’s what should be really waking folks up as to the consequences.
robroy:
.Still,.I reckon 20 years behind bars in Durham
Which one in Durham? As there’s 3 and I’ve been in all of em. The one in the town centre is the one most think off, but there’s a couple (side by side M+F) that are the other side of town in Brasside.
Conor:
I had one muppet on the A66 on Friday night as we’re coming to the end of the DC section before Bowes heading Westbound right up my arse, literally not even a car away as we’re doing 60 dropping down the hill sticking his cab out to see if he can do an overtake when we’ve already passed the signs for the end of the DC and it’s started to go into one lane and he can’t claim ignorance of the road because it was a transport company from Penrith.
I wonder if it was Dozy trying to get home in Friday night so he could have a steak dinner
Acorn:
The life sentence is the headline, the real concern is imprisonment for causing serious injury by driving without due care & attention. Serious injury has a quite low threshold such as breakages or a precautionary overnight in hospital, and due care also has a very low threshold. That’s what should be really waking folks up as to the consequences.
The real concern is that thresholds and definitions are being manipulated turning accidental unintended death and injury into the types of penalties imposed for intentional.For obvious politically motivated reasons to intimidate drivers off the roads.
To the point where physical attacks resulting in death and injury have been given less than life sentences and reduced sentences because intent wasn’t proven.
peirre:
robroy:
.Still,.I reckon 20 years behind bars in DurhamWhich one in Durham? As there’s 3 and I’ve been in all of em. The one in the town centre is the one most think off, but there’s a couple (side by side M+F) that are the other side of town in Brasside.
That begs the question of what you might have been doing in the female prison 
Zac_A:
That begs the question of what you might have been doing in the female prison
Delivering the weekly “canteen” for the inmates.
Aka their tuck shop orders what they spend their money on (aka tobacco, sweets, pop, crisps, sweets, personal hygiene, chilled and fresh foods etc etc).
I’ve been in nearly every prison from Northumberland down to isle of Sheppy. Some are open prisons in country houses (askham grange, Foston) and a mix of old and modern prisons, most of the time I was inside the prisoner where moving around next to me.
They order the canteen from a list of 500 items and pay for it with the money/credit they have. The order is picked and packed at a central prison Workshop staffed by Cons and run by DHL. 1 prison workshop will serve approximately 11-12 nearby prisons, in the case of Durham, the workshop was at Holme House Stockton on tees.
Each order is picked and heat sealed in a clear plastic bag, sealed with others in tote boxes and taken to a prison on Canteen day in the back of a sealed 18T-22T box van, depending on the prison the orders will either be dished out on the wing by the PO’s or by DHL staff. In the case of Durham (and others) I would have to drive the truck around Nick stopping at the back door to each wing drop off the full totes and collect the empties from the previous delivery. Then either take em to Holme house or back to the yard. Cat A prisons get the best choice of canteen as they can have frozen stuff inc chickens and fish/prawns delivered. The cat A prisons are generally the ones we wasn’t able to get in (Full Sutton etc) as deliveries where received at a separate secure goods in where the whole pallets where lifted from the wagon and into one end of the goods in and X-rayed before being loaded onto a prison wagon and take in the Nick by the staff.
peirre:
Zac_A:
That begs the question of what you might have been doing in the female prisonDelivering the weekly “canteen” for the inmates.
Aka their tuck shop orders what they spend their money on (aka tobacco, sweets, pop, crisps, sweets, personal hygiene, chilled and fresh foods etc etc).
I’ve been in nearly every prison from Northumberland down to isle of Sheppy. Some are open prisons in country houses (askham grange, Foston) and a mix of old and modern prisons, most of the time I was inside the prisoner where moving around next to me.
They order the canteen from a list of 500 items and pay for it with the money/credit they have. The order is picked and packed at a central prison Workshop staffed by Cons and run by DHL. 1 prison workshop will serve approximately 11-12 nearby prisons, in the case of Durham, the workshop was at Holme House Stockton on tees.
Each order is picked and heat sealed in a clear plastic bag, sealed with others in tote boxes and taken to a prison on Canteen day in the back of a sealed 18T-22T box van, depending on the prison the orders will either be dished out on the wing by the PO’s or by DHL staff. In the case of Durham (and others) I would have to drive the truck around Nick stopping at the back door to each wing drop off the full totes and collect the empties from the previous delivery. Then either take em to Holme house or back to the yard. Cat A prisons get the best choice of canteen as they can have frozen stuff inc chickens and fish/prawns delivered. The cat A prisons are generally the ones we wasn’t able to get in (Full Sutton etc) as deliveries where received at a separate secure goods in where the whole pallets where lifted from the wagon and into one end of the goods in and X-rayed before being loaded onto a prison wagon and take in the Nick by the staff.
does it have the inmates name on the goodie bag,if so itd be tempting to add a dash of arsenic to a monsters tuck
Obviously different rules apply to foreign scammers causing deliberate staged collisions and resulting fatalities.
news.sky.com/story/crash-for-ca … m-10454441
Let’s get this right a life murder penalty for an accident but a less than manslaughter penalty for murder for the right demographic.
Essentially life imprisonment equates to 15-20 years. This is a fairly good deterrent, but I fear the people likely to commit a dangerous driving offence probably aren’t the type of people to really follow the news and even less likely to change their actions based on what they see or read.
corij:
does it have the inmates name on the goodie bag,if so itd be tempting to add a dash of arsenic to a monsters tuck
iirc yes it does have their name on the till receipt sealed in the bag. How else would they be able to distinguish who’s is who’s?
I was sometimes asked to help the distribution staff dish out the orders, but unless it was someone who was friendly (which was rare) generally I refused, and if they persisted in trying to get me to help I tended to mention to the prison officer who was overseeing it that I wasn’t security cleared, and they’ed kick me out of room & go sit back in the cab.
As for infamous cons, I only remember the women know as Mrs Canoe who was in Askham Bryan (open prison) near York, her day job was at the Iceland store in town, and when she was called forward to get her stuff the PO would sing “row, row ya boat” to her.
Generally The smart arse cons soon learned how to flip the lid off a tub of margarine inside a sealed bag and slip a pouch of tobacco inside and put the lid back on, then claim that there’s a shortage in their order, however the distribution staff also learned how to flip the lid off and reveal the hidden tobacco without breaking the sealed bag, which resulted in the con getting put on report and have the canteen confiscated