First class 1 shift on my own

Just compleated my first shift so feeling kinda chuffed. However i had a couple of issues

1. Picking up the trailer to take up to the main depot I hooked up how i was shown on my 3a and have done for the rest of the week when i was shadowing someone. However when it came to wind up the legs i couldnt even in slow gear. I thought it must of been me but i asked someone else and they struggled with it as well. all of a sudden there was a “crack” and they freed off enough for me to be able to wind them up in slow about 3" off the deck then i could do it in normal gear. When it came to drop the trailer at the other end the legs behaved perfectly and i could lower them down no problem.

2. Picked up the second trailer to bring back down all ok however this time when it came to drop it back at the starting point i couldnt pull the pin. I asked someone else and they suggested reversing back sharply with the trailer brake on which allowed me to pull the lever but i had to really yank on it.

what could i possibly be doing wrong to cause these issues please

cooper1203:
Just compleated my first shift so feeling kinda chuffed. However i had a couple of issues

1. Picking up the trailer to take up to the main depot I hooked up how i was shown on my 3a and have done for the rest of the week when i was shadowing someone. However when it came to wind up the legs i couldnt even in slow gear. I thought it must of been me but i asked someone else and they struggled with it as well. all of a sudden there was a “crack” and they freed off enough for me to be able to wind them up in slow about 3" off the deck then i could do it in normal gear. When it came to drop the trailer at the other end the legs behaved perfectly and i could lower them down no problem.

2. Picked up the second trailer to bring back down all ok however this time when it came to drop it back at the starting point i couldnt pull the pin. I asked someone else and they suggested reversing back sharply with the trailer brake on which allowed me to pull the lever but i had to really yank on it.

what could i possibly be doing wrong to cause these issues please

1. Possibly there was still weight on the legs, and they had been distorted a bit as you did your tug test. The “crack” was when you wound them enough to take the weight off and they sprung straight again.
   Raise as much as possible on the suspension so that the legs are off the ground before winding up.
   And if you cant do that let vehicle "rest" in neutral with brakes off for a second or two after tug test so legs arent under strain and slightly twisted from the tug.

2. The pin will be harder to pull if the jaws are knife is against the pin. As said pushing back (gently is fine!) against the braked trailer will take that pressure off.
   Also a vertical force on the knife will make for a hard pull. If the unit air is dropped so the 5th wheel is hanging on the pin will do this.
   When the legs first touch the ground pull the pin, then wind a bit more to ensure all the slack is taken up.

When I was being taught, we never used the air suspension at all. However, now working I always use it as follows, the trailer will be dropped off at the regular ride height, but I will always remove the tractor by, disengage the pin then lower all the way (leave the 5th wheel grease where it should be)
When connecting, drive under as low as possible and then lift as high as possible before you reach the pin. So the legs should never be touching the ground when you wind them up.

If you reverse until you hit the loading dock, then the pin will be forced against the knife (didn’t know it was called that, thanks Franglais) so you need to do a very little tug test and it will free up.

I forgot

cooper1203:
Just compleated my first shift so feeling kinda chuffed.

No kittens killed ? Well done!

cooper1203:
However i had a couple of issues

Join the club, we all did

The legs problem was caused by you not raising the suspension to take the weight off them. The crack is when the weight finally lets go.
You got lucky that the previous driver dropped at ride height. If some numpty dropped any higher (and believe me they do it all the time) you could’ve missed the pin and reversed straight into the trailer. This is why half of Stobarts wagons have missing air deflectors.

I do it as follows but you might find your own way.

I lower suspension fully to the bottom.
Reverse under the trailer.
Raise suspension until the 5th wheel touches the trailer.
Reverse back slowly until I can feel the pin hitting the jaws.
Then I raise the legs off the floor.
Finally, I reverse back and engage.

With an empty trailer you can just raise the legs off the floor straight away but I find with a loaded I trailer I can bet better control by not raising the trailer until just before engaging the pin.

Or, you can do what many of my colleagues do and raise the suspension from the other side of the yard and reverse at the trailer at warp speed.

As for struggling to pull the pin, I find releasing the handbrake for a few seconds then putting it back on does the trick. Once the trailer brakes are on and you release the unit brakes this will allow them to settle and take away any tension that’s built up around where the pin connects to the 5th wheel. Very rare I need to start driving forwards and backwards against the pin.

1. If you couldn’t wind them in low gear its possible someone wound them down to the very end of their travel where they get stuck, unusual but it does happen if the ground is not even, especially if the tractor dropping it off is a 3 axle Scani and the mid lift or tag axle is raised because in the raised position the unit is around 3" higher than normal ride height.

If where you work has a mixed fleet of vehicles always keep this in mind, if you reverse under an empty that’s been dropped by a Scania previously (keep in mind the vast majority of drivers haven’t the wit to lower the extra axle or leave a gap before they actually drop it ) and you have almost any other make of tractor or your Scania is a 4x2 or you have the Scanni mid lfit down that trailer will be sitting 3" higher than the vehicle you are in, and potentially considerably higher still if the trailer suspension has lost its air and the trailer axles lowered thereby raising the front higher still.

Unless i know, and you can tell when you’ve been around long enough that the trailer you are about to pick up is at the right height, i reverse up to the trailer sliding only the chassis under and then stop get out and have a look see what heights are like, chances are that once you reverse under and do as described well above that you’ll be able to raise it enough to get the landing legs clear before finally connecting.

There will be times when the trailer sits so much higher than the tractor can lift the legs clear, this could be because Scania clot dropped it with mid lift raised and also wound the legs down even further effectively lifting the trailer off his tractor before pulling out, or as above the suspension could have lost some air and dropped the back end down lifting the front higher still.

In most cases like this, you can wind the trailer down in a minute or so via the legs to a suitable height, once in a blue moon you might have to connect the red line up before attempting to connect, set the tractor on fast idle and inflate the trailer suspension.

Things to remember.
Never underestimate just how stupid some so called experienced drivers are, some haven’t a clue what they are doing no matter how long they do the job, some actually drop things badly to make like difficult for the next man, yes these latter half wits really do exist.
Stop get out and have a look, just because billy big ■■■■■■■■ the yard show off does as Terry T describes so well with the warp speed pick up, bbb is not the one to learn from or seek to copy, sooner or later he’s going to really ■■■■■■■■ up big time either by missing the pin at speed or hitting the front of the trailer with the back** of the fifth wheel sending it the wrong way up the front of the trailer.

** this can happen too easily, sometimes the way people drop trailers you see some fifth wheels perfectly level and not tilted back as is usual once a trailer is dropped, approach too high without lowering the suspension as you go under and that fifth wheel can be forced up the front of the trailer, i’ve seen whole yard trailer fleets like this with almost every trailer with umpteen scores and scrapes up the front edge where this has happened, one morning whilst checking the tail lift was working i could hear this repeated banging every ten seconds or so, wandered down to see this full time suposedly experienced driver repeatedly ramming the fifth wheel up the front edge, had to pull them and physically show them what was happening and how to cure it, that’s when i notied the entire row of trailers was similarly damaged.
This especially happens with tractors without pick up ramps behind the fifth wheel, as you can reverse the chassis under but the fifth wheel well above the leadings edge of the trailer rubbing plate.

Take no notice of anyone criticising you for picking up and dropping off carefully, takes seconds to get out and look see how things are lining up, the aftemath of overshoots or trailers dropped on their knees arn’t sorted in seconds.

Well done by the way.

It is not unusual for a 5th wheel which requires adjustment or overhaul to be very difficult to release the handle when uncoupling. As the helping driver said: apply trailer park brake and reverse slighlty, unit handbrake on and pull handle again. Sometimes this can be a two man job. This is one of those things you learn as you come across the problem. As for the legs issue If you have got the unit air suspension right up and still can’t move the winding handle don’t forget that you can lower the trailer suspension a little which will bring the front end of the trailer up. Remember to reset it to ride height for travel and that a travel position ride height check is part of your walk around check procedure. Some legs are very difficult to wind up or down because of damage.

Raise the trailer suspension to take pressure off the legs. Not lower.

cav551:
It is not unusual for a 5th wheel which requires adjustment or overhaul to be very difficult to release the handle when uncoupling. As the helping driver said: apply trailer park brake and reverse slighlty, unit handbrake on and pull handle again. Sometimes this can be a two man job. This is one of those things you learn as you come across the problem. As for the legs issue If you have got the unit air suspension right up and still can’t move the winding handle don’t forget that you can lower the trailer suspension a little which will bring the front end of the trailer up. Remember to reset it to ride height for travel and that a travel position ride height check is part of your walk around check procedure. Some legs are very difficult to wind up or down because of damage.

I disagree with both of your points.
If you can’t release the handle, it’s because the pin is against the knife. There is no possible other answer, therefore need to drive forwards not reverse (I agree letting off the brakes maybe sufficient, or may require a second attempt, so why bother?)

If you lower the trailer suspension, it will pivot about the legs. Only everything forward of the legs will raise up. If it’s your last resort, all you could do to get the legs off the ground would be to raise the trailer suspension (after the unit suspension is fully raised).

stu675:
If you can’t release the handle, it’s because the pin is against the knife. There is no possible other answer, therefore need to drive forwards not reverse (I agree letting off the brakes maybe sufficient, or may require a second attempt, so why bother?)

Nope.
Reversing will push the pin into the “vee” of the 5th wheel, taking any pressure off the knife.
Forward will pull the 5th wheel forward and the knife will contact more firmly against the pin.

stu675:
If you lower the trailer suspension, it will pivot about the legs. Only everything forward of the legs will raise up. If it’s your last resort, all you could do to get the legs off the ground would be to raise the trailer suspension (after the unit suspension is fully raised).

Yep.
Agree with that.

As another point: dropping or raising trailer suspension when the legs are on the ground should be avoided if possible.
Ill do it, if necessary, to get the legs wound up, but it does put a strain on the legs that is best avoided. They wont fall off the first time you do it, but it is not good practice.
If anyone has to do it, just watch and listen to the legs complaining!

Franglais:

stu675:
If you can’t release the handle, it’s because the pin is against the knife. There is no possible other answer, therefore need to drive forwards not reverse (I agree letting off the brakes maybe sufficient, or may require a second attempt, so why bother?)

Nope.
Reversing will push the pin into the “vee” of the 5th wheel, taking any pressure off the knife.
Forward will pull the 5th wheel forward and the knife will contact more firmly against the pin.

■■■■ yeah [emoji17]
Right, definitely reverse, don’t tug forward.
I was trying to think which specific actions caused it to happen for me, so now I can’t think why.

thanks for the advice all. I do vagualy remember my instructor saying somthing about the rear susspenstion on my lessons. As to the “knife” jamming up is that somthing i caused or lack of maintenance is there somthing i can check on my walk around?

cooper1203:
thanks for the advice all. I do vagualy remember my instructor saying somthing about the rear susspenstion on my lessons. As to the “knife” jamming up is that somthing i caused or lack of maintenance is there somthing i can check on my walk around?

What we are saying is that the “knife” (the bar that goes across to hold the pin inside the vee of the 5th wheel) is being pressed hard against the trailer pin. That is why it is hard to pull: the friction on it.
Nothing wrong really with the kit, probably.

Franglais:

cooper1203:
thanks for the advice all. I do vagualy remember my instructor saying somthing about the rear susspenstion on my lessons. As to the “knife” jamming up is that somthing i caused or lack of maintenance is there somthing i can check on my walk around?

What we are saying is that the “knife” (the bar that goes across to hold the pin inside the vee of the 5th wheel) is being pressed hard against the trailer pin. That is why it is hard to pull: the friction on it.
Nothing wrong really with the kit, probably.

ok thanks. Why cant these things happen when you have the guy your shadowing with you.