Manual entries /advice

So working for agency place being sent . Want you do manual entries.
As basiaclly start clock on at 7 .
Then usually sit around in rest room untill there’s a truck available /ready.
Some days can be waiting to 9 or 10 .
What been doing get into truck do manual entry starting at 7 .
But my question is could I do poa entry from 7 untill when ever I set off?
And if so would it class as a break.?
As way I do it now say leave i
At 9 30 do entry other work from 7 so really means under 6 hour rule etc so need be having break by 13 00 .
If I set it on poa would 6 hour rule start when set off at 9 30. ? Hope thisakes sense.
Asked some manager here and they don’t have a clue. Asked other drivers they just said they use other work.

Poa stops the clock you start @ 1200 get in truck @ 1700 your working time and poa is reset ( if you did poa as manual )

Only thing to watch out for well for some companies. You start @ 1200 do 15min other work @ 1800 you will need wtd break ( even tho tachomaster shows no infringement some companies are an-al

edd1974:
So working for agency place being sent . Want you do manual entries.
As basiaclly start clock on at 7 .
Then usually sit around in rest room untill there’s a truck available /ready.
Some days can be waiting to 9 or 10 .
What been doing get into truck do manual entry starting at 7 .
But my question is could I do poa entry from 7 untill when ever I set off?
And if so would it class as a break.?
As way I do it now say leave i
At 9 30 do entry other work from 7 so really means under 6 hour rule etc so need be having break by 13 00 .
If I set it on poa would 6 hour rule start when set off at 9 30. ? Hope thisakes sense.
Asked some manager here and they don’t have a clue. Asked other drivers they just said they use other work.

I personally would do 5 minutes other work for when i get there and sign in, and then if you are sat around in canteen and IF the agency pay rest breaks, I would record it as rest, IF they don’t I would record it as POA, but if they have you doing something while your waiting its other work.

Start at 0700 maybe but not quite the same if you ‘clock on’ at 0100 and then have to sit in a canteen or noisy ‘rest room’ for x no of hours with then being expected to work for the next 6 hours and drive for 4 1/2hrs during that time.

Problem is as say start at 7 then waiting for trucks come.back off nights then has be tipped reloaded
Untill trucks loaded can be anytime from 8 to gone 10.
Don’t have keys or access to truck so can’t insert card or do. Anything untill then… and company wants all hours on shirft recorded.
So when do eventually get keys do a manual entry as other work from 7 then do my walk around cheks secure load etc .
Just means by time starting gey some work done having stop for 15 mins due 6 hours rule. When in reality only done maybe3. Hours as spent other 3 hours in rest room watching TV drinking coffe etc.

Just wondered what happen of put it on poa

Unless they give you a time that a vehicle will be available, technically POA isn’t applicable, however the chances of anyone being interested in this are slim.

If an agency or similar then you could as Shullbit suggests manual entry some other work and then onto break.

Make sure you’re paid from start to finish regardless of tacho mode selected (check with agency they are getting paid by the customer so no argy bargy in 2 weeks time if they try and say your mode choice cost them so no pay for 2 hours), and be aware some operators do not recognise POA so if you did use POA it would be counted as other work on their system so you could end up with infringements to argue over.

If you arn’t paid for breaks then use POA instead (assuming thats paid) and if anyone asks you were informed before going on POA that the vehicle would be ready for you at 0930 or whatever time its actually issued.

“Generally speaking, a period of availability (POA) is waiting time, the duration of which must be known in advance. Examples of what might count as a POA are accompanying a vehicle on a ferry crossing or waiting while other workers load/unload the vehicle. For mobile workers driving in a team, a POA would also include time spent sitting next to the driver while the vehicle is in motion (unless the mobile worker is taking a break or performing other work ie navigation).”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … time-rules

Reading the above (red highlights mine) if you arrive and have to wait for an unknown time then it is not a POA.
If you can`t wander off somewhere, you are not on break, nor are you on POA.
Therefore you must be at work, on duty.

Maybe you are not driving, nor shoveling coal, nor doing anything useful whatsoever, but you aren`t free to do as you please, nor go where you want. Duty.

Having said all that, given your card isn`t in a slot anywhere.
When you get to put it in a machine, you can book as much duty, and insert as many breaks as you…actually took…?

edd1974:
So working for agency place being sent . Want you do manual entries.
As basiaclly start clock on at 7 .
Then usually sit around in rest room untill there’s a truck available /ready.
Some days can be waiting to 9 or 10 .
What been doing get into truck do manual entry starting at 7 .
But my question is could I do poa entry from 7 untill when ever I set off?
And if so would it class as a break.?
As way I do it now say leave i
At 9 30 do entry other work from 7 so really means under 6 hour rule etc so need be having break by 13 00 .
If I set it on poa would 6 hour rule start when set off at 9 30. ? Hope thisakes sense.
Asked some manager here and they don’t have a clue. Asked other drivers they just said they use other work.

As has been said, technically you cannot use POA because you don’t know how long you’ll be waiting for a lorry, not that anyone’s ever going to know but…
You can however use break so as long as you get paid for all breaks I would record a couple of minutes other work for when you get to the transport office then book the rest of the waiting time as break, this would be legal and would reset your working time, so a new 6 hour working time period would begin when you get a lorry.

Having said that, if you do want to use other work from 07:00 to 09:30 and POA form 09:30 until you get a lorry then when you get your lorry you will have done 2.5 hours other work so I would say that for the 6 hour rule you will need to have a 15 minute WTD break no later than 3.5 hours from when you get a lorry.

POA does not count as working time and generally does not count as a break or rest period, it’s been mentioned in one of the comments that POA resets the working time but that’s not correct, the only time POA counts as break and will reset the driving time and working time is when sat in the passenger seat on a multi-manning journey when the first 45 minutes of POA is counted as break, but obviously this does not apply in your situation.

Franglais:
If you can`t wander off somewhere, you are not on break, nor are you on POA.

You do not have to be able to wonder off somewhere to be on break, you only need to be able to use the time exclusively for recuperation, if you sit back and chill you can be on break :wink:

tachograph:

Franglais:
If you can`t wander off somewhere, you are not on break, nor are you on POA.

You do not have to be able to wonder off somewhere to be on break, you only need to be able to use the time exclusively for recuperation, if you sit back and chill you can be on break :wink:

Fair point, my error.

As a comment and my opinion:
I`ve always felt that the definition of POA is all wrong.
A POA is you being ready to be recalled to work at any time, so not knowing how long it will last. Yet the DVLA say it must be of a known length.
If you do know the length of the period, then you can choose to have a meal, or a kip or whatever. That is IMHO a break and suitable for rest and recuperation.
The DVLA definition seems at odds with common sense* to me.

Is there any reason I can`t see for this?

*Yeah, I know…common sense!

The only time you want to worry about sitting in the canteen is at the end of the shift to make your hours upto your guaranteed hours , petty , pathetic , childish , tossers

edd1974:
So working for agency place being sent . Want you do manual entries.
As basiaclly start clock on at 7 .
Then usually sit around in rest room untill there’s a truck available /ready.
Some days can be waiting to 9 or 10 .
What been doing get into truck do manual entry starting at 7 .
But my question is could I do poa entry from 7 untill when ever I set off?
And if so would it class as a break.?
As way I do it now say leave i
At 9 30 do entry other work from 7 so really means under 6 hour rule etc so need be having break by 13 00 .
If I set it on poa would 6 hour rule start when set off at 9 30. ? Hope thisakes sense.
Asked some manager here and they don’t have a clue. Asked other drivers they just said they use other work.

Imo, forget POA it’s just nonsense that doesn’t help anyone.
Whenever you get your truck, do a manual entry from arrival time as other work, and if it suits you to record 15 mins or 45 mins of break during the period you were waiting then do so. If it doesn’t suit you, leave it all as other work.
There is no possibile benefit of POA.

stu675:

edd1974:

Imo, forget POA it’s just nonsense that doesn’t help anyone.
Whenever you get your truck, do a manual entry from arrival time as other work, and if it suits you to record 15 mins or 45 mins of break during the period you were waiting then do so. If it doesn’t suit you, leave it all as other work.
There is no possibile benefit of POA.

There is if the driver gets paid for every hour, especially if there’s a decent overtime rate involved, by using POA or Break he can extend his working week considerably so have lots more paid hours at a juicy rate.

Juddian:

stu675:

edd1974:

Imo, forget POA it’s just nonsense that doesn’t help anyone.
Whenever you get your truck, do a manual entry from arrival time as other work, and if it suits you to record 15 mins or 45 mins of break during the period you were waiting then do so. If it doesn’t suit you, leave it all as other work.
There is no possibile benefit of POA.

There is if the driver gets paid for every hour, especially if there’s a decent overtime rate involved, by using POA or Break he can extend his working week considerably so have lots more paid hours at a juicy rate.

Ah yes, for WTD, not drivers hours I think I was thinking of. Ok, even drivers hours if 84 hrs a week is not enough for you.
Agreed.

POA isn’t a fixed time. It can be extended or shortened and just asking what time they reckon a truck will be ready will cover it and if its ready before that crack on and if its not ready you can extend it. Likewise prior knowledge also counts, in this case you’ve said yourself how long it takes for something to be ready.

Best bet if you like the client is to ask them how they want it done, work out if that way suits you and go from there.

Different for me as I’m full time and (now, finally!) get paid all hours regardless, so my want me to show some other work at the start, then it’s POA until you get a job if theres a delay, then as normal from then on. They are also part of that earned recognition thingy and they’d have been audited for that by DVSA so they must be fine with it.

As previously stated, for the PoA to be valid, the driver must know of the waiting time before the period of time commences starts, but the driver does not need to be notified specifically. It is enough to know about the waiting time, and its duration, in advance, and therefore the knowledge could be by:

being told

arriving early for a timed delivery

always experiencing a wait at a specific location.

I have always understood it to include the last sentence when using POA.

If you know from experience of a wait time then you can also book POA. As you work there and wait on a daily basis I’d book it as POA as you know frequently how long you are likely to be waiting from experience.

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

It’s this simple.

5 mins other work
Then rest of time break, unless you have all recorded breaks deducted, then use poa instead.

Only driving and other work count as working time for the WTD

stu675:

edd1974:
So working for agency place being sent . Want you do manual entries.
As basiaclly start clock on at 7 .
Then usually sit around in rest room untill there’s a truck available /ready.
Some days can be waiting to 9 or 10 .
What been doing get into truck do manual entry starting at 7 .
But my question is could I do poa entry from 7 untill when ever I set off?
And if so would it class as a break.?
As way I do it now say leave i
At 9 30 do entry other work from 7 so really means under 6 hour rule etc so need be having break by 13 00 .
If I set it on poa would 6 hour rule start when set off at 9 30. ? Hope thisakes sense.
Asked some manager here and they don’t have a clue. Asked other drivers they just said they use other work.

Imo, forget POA it’s just nonsense that doesn’t help anyone.
Whenever you get your truck, do a manual entry from arrival time as other work, and if it suits you to record 15 mins or 45 mins of break during the period you were waiting then do so. If it doesn’t suit you, leave it all as other work.
There is no possibile benefit of POA.

Poa is a tool for the minority of drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted, if that’s not you like the majority, then forget it exists, but that’s why it must exist.

It’s only other use is if you want to keep your wtd working time down and you’re in for a 45+ min wait, but you don’t want to reset your driving time at that point