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Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

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111 posts • Page 1 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4

Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Janos » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:16 am

Highway code gets updated shortly.
Roads users hierarchy is now as follows:

1. Pedestrians

2. Cyclists

3. Horse riders

4. Motorcyclists

5. Cars/taxis

6. Vans/minibuses

7. HGV's.

Takes effect Saturday. Also, new rules allow cyclists to take their own initiative. They can cycle in the middle of the road if it feels safer, and two abreast if they like, and there is no obligation to use a cycle lane either.

Is it not ironic that these new rules will be shoved down our throats by Highway Code book waving lycra clad [zb]s. This is from somebody who cycles too! I just hate the smug sense of entitlement some cyclists have. This latest move will make them even worse. Only somebody who drives a HGV for work purposes knows how irritating and dangerous it is driving whilst these people bob and weave around your truck.
What about our health and safety..and sanity?
Last edited by dieseldave on Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Auto censor dodge removed
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ringfur » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:24 am

SMILES
I am a robot
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby sweepster » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:56 am

I believe you should always give the more vulnerable road users priority, no matter how much of an idiot a minority are.
I am four of the categories out of that list. Pedestrian, Motorcyclist, Car and HGV.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Buckstones » Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:19 pm

I would not be surprised to see an increase in cyclist injuries and deaths.
Many of them have no common sense or instinct for self preservation now, this idea will give them a feeling of invulnerability.
Some will have a rude and painful awakening to the laws of physics and realities of reaction time when asserting their new Highway Code right to pull in front of other traffic

Or am I being pessimistic?.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Juddian » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:39 pm

Buckstones wrote:
Or am I being pessimistic?.


Far from it, being in the right whilst in traction or in a mortuary fridge would be some sort of victory one supposes.

We have to remember the people who make the rules up have little or no idea of the realities of life for us plebs, what's an ideal in Islington 'working' from home for an hour or two wishing that work didn't interfere with your social life is a far cry from the realities of people actually grafting all their lives in the world of industry.

In the wise words of Alf Bradshaw, 'and another bus went past'.
Normal govt suspended, decrees issued from tweedle dum and tweedle dee with no parliamentary oversight.

Heaven has a wall and strict immigration policies. Hell has open borders.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Monkey241 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:39 pm

I can see what these changes are meant to do, but they will likely have the opposite effect.
A good place to start would be in educating cyclists just how vulnerable they are, and how they can best protect themselves.
I think this will lead to more accidents - but the HGV will bear the brunt of the blame.

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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby the maoster » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:15 pm

I often visit sites that have somewhere in them a full length mirror with a caption on it that reads “this person is responsible for your safety”. Succinct, to the point but sadly ignored by many.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Conor » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:17 pm

Even more reason to make sure you've got a dashcam now to be fair. We now live in a society where it's everyone elses job to be responsible for you, not your own, where if something happens due to your own actiions it wasn't your fault but the fault of the person who didn't prevent you from being able to do it or read your mind so they could pre-empt and account for the stupid you were going to do.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Winseer » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:59 pm

Does this mean that if a pedestrian pulls a cyclist off their bike, they are now no longer arrested?
...And if a Cyclist runs under an artic's wheels, the cyclist doesn't then get arrested if the trucker then dies of a heart attack?

I await the inevitable legal arguments in court

"My brudder's car (actually a transit van) had priority over that cyclist towing that small trailer, whom I've just killed"
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ezydriver » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm

What if a pedal rickshaw was involved in a prang with an Uber all because a horse-drawn hearse cut them up (but got away unscathed)?

I suppose the nearest HGV driver would go for tea and biscuits with a TC for not preventing it.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Uncleskid » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:34 pm

Next update they’ll move e scooters up the list, especially if they ride them at night with no lights and dressed in black
It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it and that's what gets results
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby M65Chris » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:44 pm

I've always given cyclists a wide berth. Not particularly out of courtesy but on the assumption they are complete and utter morons with a death wish.

I don't want them on my conscience.
Last edited by M65Chris on Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby merc0447 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:18 am

None of the new rules or the hierarchy particular bother me, expect the new pedestrian one about giving way at a junction. I really do think this one is a minefield and will lead to rear end accidents, confusion and even possibly people getting knocked down.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Carryfast » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:34 am

sweepster wrote:I believe you should always give the more vulnerable road users priority, no matter how much of an idiot a minority are.
I am four of the categories out of that list. Pedestrian, Motorcyclist, Car and HGV.

So as a pedestrian anyone can just walk out in front of a cyclist and it's the cyclists responsibility to avoid the collision.Also a collision between a cyclist ignoring a red light or give way line colliding with a motorcyclist will be just as bad for both.
This is the type of road rules expected in Venezuela.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Carryfast » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:34 am

sweepster wrote:I believe you should always give the more vulnerable road users priority, no matter how much of an idiot a minority are.
I am four of the categories out of that list. Pedestrian, Motorcyclist, Car and HGV.

So as a pedestrian anyone can just walk out in front of a cyclist and it's the cyclists responsibility to avoid the collision.Also a collision between a cyclist ignoring a red light or give way line colliding with a motorcyclist will be just as bad for both.
This is the type of road rules expected in Venezuela.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby stu675 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:15 am

When I was learning to drive a car 30 odd years ago, I was asked, when do pedestrians have priority. The answer was always.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby toonsy » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:46 am

I get the theory behind it but its a fundamental change to everything that is current and long standing. Ignore cyclists for a bit and focus on pedestrians. I can see many rear end shunts as drivers stop to let a pedestrian across but the car behind doesn't twig and I can also see many instances where a drivers stops and the pedestrian doesn't know.

How many near misses have you seen where a driver has let someone cross but the vehicle in the outside lane or going the opposite way doesn't read the situation. I seen one just this weekend in fairness.

Moving onto cyclists.... I can obviously see that cyclists will always stop to allow for pedestrians to cross... :roll:
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby eagerbeaver » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:52 am

If we had all listened at school, none of this would be a problem.
It's said that " Nothing is impossible".

I strongly disagree, I do nothing most days...
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby cooper1203 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:24 am

all this reminds me of a film i saw years ago where a guy gets put into a cryogenic pod and wakes up to a world where everyone is stupid. we are getting closer and closer to it happening more an more rules to protect the dim.

Im not saying we should go back to the old days with the village idiot with a bell around his neck but making it so that the muppet crossing a busy road that cant be bothered or hasnt the intelegence to remove his eyes from his mobile for 5 secs to see if its clear to cross is a step too far.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ERF-NGC-European » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:20 am

stu675 wrote:When I was learning to drive a car 30 odd years ago, I was asked, when do pedestrians have priority. The answer was always.


Absolutely. It was the same when I passed my test 53 years ago. It's probably been in the Highway Code since 1925. I can't understand why the Media keep flagging it up as a 'new rule'. When pedestrians are already (or about to) crossing the road at a road junction you must give way if you are driving.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Carryfast » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:20 pm

ERF-NGC-European wrote:
stu675 wrote:When I was learning to drive a car 30 odd years ago, I was asked, when do pedestrians have priority. The answer was always.


Absolutely. It was the same when I passed my test 53 years ago. It's probably been in the Highway Code since 1925. I can't understand why the Media keep flagging it up as a 'new rule'. When pedestrians are already (or about to) crossing the road at a road junction you must give way if you are driving.


The Green Cross Code campaign says otherwise.I was nearly run over as child running across the road in front of a car in what is now a 20 mph limit but when 30 was regarded as too slow by most.
My Dad saw it and apologised to the shaken driver and thanked him for managing to stop in time.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ERF-NGC-European » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:26 pm

Carryfast wrote:
ERF-NGC-European wrote:
stu675 wrote:When I was learning to drive a car 30 odd years ago, I was asked, when do pedestrians have priority. The answer was always.


Absolutely. It was the same when I passed my test 53 years ago. It's probably been in the Highway Code since 1925. I can't understand why the Media keep flagging it up as a 'new rule'. When pedestrians are already (or about to) crossing the road at a road junction you must give way if you are driving.


The Green Cross Code campaign says otherwise.I was nearly run over as child running across the road in front of a car in what is now a 20 mph limit but when 30 was regarded as too slow by most.
My Dad saw it and apologised to the shaken driver and thanked him for managing to stop in time.


The Green Cross Code does not say otherwise. Firstly, it didn't come out till the '70s and secondly it was aimed entirely at educating children crossing the road, not at legislating for drivers :wink:
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby whisperingsmith » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:21 pm

The Guardian has a useful piece on the changes:-

Common myths about what UK Highway Code changes will mean
Cyclists won’t be ‘in the middle of the road’ and there is no new rule on riding two abreast.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/24/common-myths-about-what-uk-highway-code-changes-will-mean
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ROG » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:34 pm

Give way to pedestrians who might want to cross the road

So .... You intend to turn into a side road but someone on their phone etc is near the kerb edge and the new HC says wait for them to cross BUT they are quite happy to talk on their phone for longer before crossing - how is a driver supposed to know that?
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby ERF-NGC-European » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:42 pm

ROG wrote:
Give way to pedestrians who might want to cross the road

So .... You intend to turn into a side road but someone on their phone etc is near the kerb edge and the new HC says wait for them to cross BUT they are quite happy to talk on their phone for longer before crossing - how is a driver supposed to know that?


It sounds like a classic 'be ready to stop and prepared to go' scenario like the amber light situation or covering the footbrake as you approach minor crossroads. The same obtains at a zebra crossing: if they're chatting and not paying attention or facing the wrong way you drop another gear and creep across with full observation and anticipation.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby stu675 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:04 pm

toonsy wrote:I .

How many near misses have you seen where a driver has let someone cross but the vehicle in the outside lane or going the opposite way doesn't read the situation. I seen one just this weekend in fairness.
l:


Going along a straight road you should never let someone cross. Just don't hit them if they have decided to cross, everything is still their responsibility.

The new rule where they have priority at a junction = it's a junction so you shouldn't have the outside lane or opposite direction problem.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Carryfast » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:57 pm

ERF-NGC-European wrote:
Carryfast wrote:
ERF-NGC-European wrote:
stu675 wrote:When I was learning to drive a car 30 odd years ago, I was asked, when do pedestrians have priority. The answer was always.


Absolutely. It was the same when I passed my test 53 years ago. It's probably been in the Highway Code since 1925. I can't understand why the Media keep flagging it up as a 'new rule'. When pedestrians are already (or about to) crossing the road at a road junction you must give way if you are driving.


The Green Cross Code campaign says otherwise.I was nearly run over as child running across the road in front of a car in what is now a 20 mph limit but when 30 was regarded as too slow by most.
My Dad saw it and apologised to the shaken driver and thanked him for managing to stop in time.


The Green Cross Code does not say otherwise. Firstly, it didn't come out till the '70s and secondly it was aimed entirely at educating children crossing the road, not at legislating for drivers :wink:


Stop, look both ways before starting to cross and while crossing.Treat roads with traffic islands as two seperate roads.
The definition of pelican crossings and zebra crossings is all the antithesis of 'priority' to pedestrians.
If pedestrians supposedly have priority what are they stopping for and why bother with pelican and zebra crossings .The idea of 'priority' to most vulnerable road users is a satanic idiocy worse than removing hard shoulders on motorways and which can only end in tears.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby BE5T D4D » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:03 pm

Nothing like seeing a MAMIL riding his £1000 pushbike (with no helmet) going through a red light and giving me the finger for beeping at him

He was clearly a special kind of ****er!
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby driveress » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:32 pm

it's a junction so you shouldn't have the outside lane or opposite direction problem


Not the outside lane no, but surely you do have the opposite direction problem. A pedestrian crossing at a junction would still have to check for traffic coming from two other directions in order to cross the whole junction safely.

***ok, I’ve just actually read it and the key words are “turning into” when I had assumed “turning out of”, so ignore the above.
Last edited by driveress on Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Know your place. The new hierarchy of road users.

Postby Janos » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:13 pm

whisperingsmith wrote:The Guardian has a useful piece on the changes:-

Common myths about what UK Highway Code changes will mean
Cyclists won’t be ‘in the middle of the road’ and there is no new rule on riding two abreast.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/24/common-myths-about-what-uk-highway-code-changes-will-mean


Reading this confirms my belief there is an ideological slant to the changes.
The changes have come after intense lobbying by cycling organisations.
The rule to ride two abreast, where it is safe to do so has always existed, but now it is being pushed front and centre as a means to controlling the traffic behind. Allowing vehicles to overtake only when the cyclists deem it safe.
This is a recipe for disaster. How many motorists or truck drivers are prepared to be patronised like this?
Where is our representation when the code is revised? At the very least we should insist that if there is a cycle lane, then it must be used.
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