Driver Shortage Theory

Somebody posted this in response to a tweet from Andrea Jenkyns MP about the driver shortage being due to Covid

I thought the response was pretty accurate and deserved to be shared so here you go:

Ok, I’ll do my best to explain the current serious issues in the UK haulage industry. A few years ago as the borders of Europe expanded, there was an influx of newly christened Eastern Europeans a coming our shores. These characters had a licence for a tractor and trailer back home, however, the EU translated it to a HGV licence. As wages back home were very poor, these characters were very happy to work, driving a HGV, for the minimum wage (in some cases on a day rate that with the long hours equated to less), obviously the haulage industry loved this cheap labour, the workers living in the truck all week, and 6 to a 2 bed house in run down areas on their days off. UK drivers were dismayed by this, as these foreign drivers made up the workforce as drivers retired, and in the last 12 or so years have ended up as around 30% of the UK HGV drivers! UK drivers tried to find a way to make better their income, so, as hauliers wouldn’t increase wages, they looked at other methods. Hey presto, form a 1 man LTD company, subcontract to the haulier, the LTD bills the company a little more than the ‘wage’
, the haulier escaped holiday, pension, sick pay and employers contribution, then draw a minimal wage under the tax threshold, pay no income tax, minimal NI, and then take a tax free dividend after paying corporation tax, basically, earn 25k, pay less than 1k in tax. The drivers are happy exploiting a loophole, increasing their take home pay, the hauliers were overjoyed, and there was nowt HMRC could do. The foreign drivers cottoned on to this, and around 50% of UK drivers utilised this route.
Last year HMRC passed a new ruling, commencing April this
year, IR35 came into force. Basically this rules that no company that employs more than 50 employees can use the services of a LTD driver, the big hauliers had 50% of their workforce on this scheme, oh dear, time for a pay rise, £9/10 per hour isn’t enough.
Whilst this was happening, Brexit agreements ruled that to work in the UK you need a working Visa if your not a UK citizen (70% of the foreign drivers weren’t citizens, but the rest had gained it through marriage or other means), for this you need a professional qualification, a HGV licence doesn’t fall into this category, so it’s time for them to depart our shores, but not before their LTD companies claimed the £20k bounce back loan from the government, then promptly the company goes bust as it can’t trade, and they wave Britain goodbye.
The government realise they ballsed up and brush it under the carpet.
The result? 65000 drivers lost, Britain coming out of Covid, the economy restarting, bigger demand on road haulage, and a massive driver shortage. Initially haulage companies wouldn’t increase wages, but when
they realised how severe the issue is, they increased wages, as they will loose contracts and fold without the drivers, (stobart have lost some Tesco and surrendered others as they can’t recruit on their low wage), DHL step in, and offer a lot more money, PAYE only, and poach a
those who have still can’t get full teams of drivers, they poach some, some won’t move for £2 extra per hour, so now wages are £14-30 an hour, supply chain must keep supplying, they’re hands are tied. Tesco have agreed to foot the extra wage bill, they will pass it on to the
consumer, they need stock in the stores! They are binning fresh produce a RDCs as it expires before it gets in the trucks! Notice gaps in the supermarkets? That’s why!
Sadly some hauliers won’t recognise this issue, I work for one of them unfortunately, and due to drivers
leaving, we are 20% down in drivers, agencies can’t supply as DHL and the like are outbidding and getting the drivers, we have got together to try for a resolve, they come up with 40p an hour, so £10.40, or £540 for my salaried 4 on 4 off, we said £12 minimum, they’ve turned
hostile, the following day 2 more handed their notice in, then myself and others have lost our short runs, so we do more hours, I like my job, but I won’t be taken for a mug, I’ve applied to DHL Tesco at Goole today, 4 on 4 off shunting, 38 miles a day less commuting, and £200 a week more, and it’s 6 till 6, alternate days and night blocks, so it’s easier hours. In reality, there’s never been a better time to be a lorry driver, but the shortage will ■■■■■■■ the industry.
Ps, Our boss arrived to the meeting in a brand new Porsche, then said she can’t
afford a decent pay rise, sorry, I’m not wearing it!!
I hope this gives you a better understanding of this situation."

Words of a friend.

Can’t really argue with any of that.

Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

Sorry but I can’t take seriously any post from somebody who doesn’t know the difference between the words “Lose” and “Loose”!

Winseer:
Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

Very true mate, I like many others on here have experienced companys literally ringing me up or emailing me offering work, yesterday I had Sutton tankers contact me offering to put me through my ADR if I join them, now this was a company I applied for a job with a year or so ago and I was refused because I did not have an ADR. The tide has most definately turned. I had the same thing from Abbey tankers too amongst lots of other choice jobs not so easy to get into last year. Even petrol tanker jobs are opening their doors to those who lack experience of ADR. It is most certainly time to feather your nest with a decent contract now.

Grumpy_old_trucker:
Sorry but I can’t take seriously any post from somebody who doesn’t know the difference between the words “Lose” and “Loose”!

I always thought that was an American thing, like Colour and Color?

Din’t ye kin effer loooose kantralll!

or more simply “Loo oo serrr” :exclamation:

…which as we all know, refers to someone “not winning”, something Americans like to do all the time… RATHER than “Cannot touch the sides even more so than the next person…” which would be the 100% English way of interpreting it - would it not? :grimacing:

the maoster:
Can’t really argue with any of that.

Really? It’s full of crap. For example:

Whilst this was happening, Brexit agreements ruled that to work in the UK you need a working Visa if your not a UK citizen (70% of the foreign drivers weren’t citizens, but the rest had gained it through marriage or other means), for this you need a professional qualification, a HGV licence doesn’t fall into this category, so it’s time for them to depart our shores,

That’s complete crap from start to finish. If you were already here you already had the right to work here without needing a visa and without requiring any qualifications at all. Anyone who wanted to continue to was told they could apply for the pre-settled status which was effectively a rubber stamp with the government even rolling out a mobile phone app to help people sign up. Absolutely nobody from the EU who was here at 11.59pm on the 31st December 2020 had to leave, they were able to stay and apply FOR FREE to remain in the UK with the right to work and live here just like the locals even after we left the EU completely right up until the final cut off date for applications of midnight 30th June 2021, six months after we fully left the EU.

Last year HMRC passed a new ruling, commencing April this
year, IR35 came into force. the big hauliers had 50% of their workforce on this scheme

IR35 has existed for 20 years. No, the big hauliers didn’t have 50% of their workforce on this scheme. Some of the agencies might have done but not haulage companies.

If I’d been Andrea Jenkins MP reading that response I’d have thought to myself that it was no wonder they were getting paid £10/hr, even that was probably too much. If you’re going to give a response at least make sure that it’s based on facts instead of just regurgitating the same old bollox the clueless regurgitate and when you’re writing it make half an attempt to look like you had an education.

Winseer:

Grumpy_old_trucker:
Sorry but I can’t take seriously any post from somebody who doesn’t know the difference between the words “Lose” and “Loose”!

I always thought that was an American thing, like Colour and Color?

Jesus…and these people want to be called professional?

No it’s not an American thing. They’re two entirely different words with entirely different meanings even in America.

Lose: To misplace something, be deprived of or cease to have or retain something.
Loose: Opposite of tight. Not firmly or tightly fixed in place, not tight fitting.

Winseer:
Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

There is no danger of you being head-hunted, Winseer, so it wouldn’t let it bother you.

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

There is no danger of you being head-hunted, Winseer, so it wouldn’t let it bother you.

Conor:

Winseer:

Grumpy_old_trucker:
Sorry but I can’t take seriously any post from somebody who doesn’t know the difference between the words “Lose” and “Loose”!

I always thought that was an American thing, like Colour and Color?

Jesus…and these people want to be called professional?

No it’s not an American thing. They’re two entirely different words with entirely different meanings even in America.

Lose: To misplace something, be deprived of or cease to have or retain something.
Loose: Opposite of tight. Not firmly or tightly fixed in place, not tight fitting.

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

There is no danger of you being head-hunted, Winseer, so it wouldn’t let it bother you.

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
Looks like the Headhunting season is now upon us…

Drivers looking for decent PAYE contracts - will simply scroll on by those with no wages mentioned, or no fixed shift patterns mentioned.

It increasingly looks like my age-old hostility to “Any five from seven” is now coming home to roost, as I doubt very much if there are many other drivers out there who’d want to linger much longer on such a contract, not knowing from one week to the next “Wot you’ll be doing next week”. The threat of “no work avaialable at all” has now well-and-truly receded… :bulb: :bulb:

There is no danger of you being head-hunted, Winseer, so it wouldn’t let it bother you.

The only thing that would prevent me being head hunted - is an active policy of discrimiation taken against me by some errant acting manager, which a employer firm might take exception to - firing the manager, rather than risk ligation. A classic pitfall there would be if such a person foolishly decided to breach data protection, in the form of “Private and Confidential” thrown under the bus in the name of petty back-biting…

I’m confident that no such thing would happen then, - because of stringent laws against it already in place then.
Thus, on paper, having a spotless licence would get me that interview even if “not supporting Nu Labour” - might count against me on the shop floor later…

Winseer:
The only thing that would prevent me being head hunted - is an active policy of discrimiation taken against me by some errant acting manager, which a employer firm might take exception to - firing the manager, rather than risk ligation. A classic pitfall there would be if such a person foolishly decided to breach data protection, in the form of “Private and Confidential” thrown under the bus in the name of petty back-biting…

I’m confident that no such thing would happen then, - because of stringent laws against it already in place then.

Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

DCPCFML:
Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

Flamin hell, you are maybe not quite so thick as I thought, I didn’t understand a word of what the chap was saying, yet you answered him?? Bizarre!!!

Interesting read and it matches what’s been happening with the company I work for. Big organisation, previously had majority core drivers and about probably 15-30% agency, varying through the year. Since Brexit, IR35, Covid etc., we have very few agency, a massive amount of outside contractors who do the single hit deliveries and it means that core drivers now end up with the multi-drop or double runs, meaning our working days have lengthened until the end of the reference period, at which time the compliance manager can’t figure out why so many drivers are being stood down and they struggle to get deliveries done on-time, if at all. New management haven’t helped by alienating staff, both in the office and amongst the drivers. Luckily I’m nearing retirement so I shall put up with the cr*p until then but long-term I really do wonder how they are going to keep things going.

Can somebody fill in the gaps for me here pls. Being an o/d a lot of what is said re wages does not apply to me. In the past, I can recall being privy to conversations where the gist was, if there was not £7/800 quid in it, then am not interested. I assumed these guys were flogging themselves using the IR35 ‘off the payroll’ scheme? I heard it from EU drivers too. Am I naive in thinking that a lot of these guys were not declaring their wages, and just working literally cash in hand? I just find it hard to believe that these people would lose any sleep over not paying their tax. If this is the case, then along with the BBL rip off, the UK taxpayer has been well and truly stung here.

Janos:
Can somebody fill in the gaps for me here pls. Being an o/d a lot of what is said re wages does not apply to me. In the past, I can recall being privy to conversations where the gist was, if there was not £7/800 quid in it, then am not interested. I assumed these guys were flogging themselves using the IR35 ‘off the payroll’ scheme? I heard it from EU drivers too. Am I naive in thinking that a lot of these guys were not declaring their wages, and just working literally cash in hand? I just find it hard to believe that these people would lose any sleep over not paying their tax. If this is the case, then along with the BBL rip off, the UK taxpayer has been well and truly stung here.

That is exactly what has happened. By the time their accounts are due, they are long gone back over the water. Can’t say I blame them tbh.

tallyman:
Interesting read and it matches what’s been happening with the company I work for. Big organisation, previously had majority core drivers and about probably 15-30% agency, varying through the year. Since Brexit, IR35, Covid etc., we have very few agency, a massive amount of outside contractors who do the single hit deliveries and it means that core drivers now end up with the multi-drop or double runs, meaning our working days have lengthened until the end of the reference period, at which time the compliance manager can’t figure out why so many drivers are being stood down and they struggle to get deliveries done on-time, if at all. New management haven’t helped by alienating staff, both in the office and amongst the drivers. Luckily I’m nearing retirement so I shall put up with the cr*p until then but long-term I really do wonder how they are going to keep things going.

Easy answer…

PUT

THE

PAY

UP

It really is that simple.

70,000 people have class 1 and 2 license and don’t drive. There is NO driver shortage. There is a cr*p pay problem.

Ooooh! I drive a brand new scanny for £10.79 an hour and it’s my truck

Good for you.

I’ll drive anything legal if you pay me £20 an hour (days) or £25 (nights). I don’t work weekends and I don’t sleep in a tin box. You can get me a Premier inn and £20 for a meal and £75 for the inconvenience of being away from my family…

Oh, you don’t like those rates? Well I don’t like your rates. Let’s discuss it.

Or let’s not discuss it and see who goes bankrupt and I’ll either buy a truck to take up the slack or go and stack shelves for the same money. Either way, you lose. I win.

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
The only thing that would prevent me being head hunted - is an active policy of discrimiation taken against me by some errant acting manager, which a employer firm might take exception to - firing the manager, rather than risk ligation. A classic pitfall there would be if such a person foolishly decided to breach data protection, in the form of “Private and Confidential” thrown under the bus in the name of petty back-biting…

I’m confident that no such thing would happen then, - because of stringent laws against it already in place then.

Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

And yet you say it like you know of it personally, and are indeed part of it… Care to reveal who you are with the proverbial knife still dripping by the sounds of it Mr?

I’m not banned in writing anywhere. They were too gutless to risk said litigation for rampant discrimination, so the TWO bans I’ve ever had - were “on the nod” only. I make them look bad, and they knew it. When I bring a H&S near miss breach to a manager - I expect them to follow it up and NOT get rid of me on a pretence instead! It is illegal to fire whilstleblowers, as per gov.uk/whistleblowing
“Agency” is clearly on that list.

“Adherence to H&S”? Pah. Don’t make me laugh! I got accused of the very thing I reported, just so ranks could be closed, and the “Union Member Full Timer” protected on a “My word against his” basis eh?

Winseer:

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
The only thing that would prevent me being head hunted - is an active policy of discrimiation taken against me by some errant acting manager, which a employer firm might take exception to - firing the manager, rather than risk ligation. A classic pitfall there would be if such a person foolishly decided to breach data protection, in the form of “Private and Confidential” thrown under the bus in the name of petty back-biting…

I’m confident that no such thing would happen then, - because of stringent laws against it already in place then.

Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

And yet you say it like you know of it personally, and are indeed part of it… Care to reveal who you are with the proverbial knife still dripping by the sounds of it Mr?

I’m not banned in writing anywhere. They were too gutless to risk said litigation for rampant discrimination, so the TWO bans I’ve ever had - were “on the nod” only. I make them look bad, and they knew it. When I bring a H&S near miss breach to a manager - I expect them to follow it up and NOT get rid of me on a pretence instead! It is illegal to fire whilstleblowers, as per gov.uk/whistleblowing
“Agency” is clearly on that list.

“Adherence to H&S”? Pah. Don’t make me laugh! I got accused of the very thing I reported, just so ranks could be closed, and the “Union Member Full Timer” protected on a “My word against his” basis eh?

You really do have absolutely no clue how the real world works. Every time you write a riposte on here you just prove what everyone has been saying all along : you’re the stereotypical “I know my rights” gobshi te agency driver who everyone loathes with a passion. Your attitude absolutely stinks and if I was running the desk at the places you frequent, your name would be swiftly added to the DO NOT USE list. You are so far up your own arse that you can’t even see your problem.

I’m shocked by some of the Class 1 salaries I read on here. Biffa pay £14.60 on Class 2, with lots of drivers getting a £20 a day fixed bonus (£29 for cover drivers to compensate for the stress of doing an unfamiliar round each day, although most of them know 90% of the jobs our depot does by now anyway).

Build5:

tallyman:
Interesting read and it matches what’s been happening with the company I work for. Big organisation, previously had majority core drivers and about probably 15-30% agency, varying through the year. Since Brexit, IR35, Covid etc., we have very few agency, a massive amount of outside contractors who do the single hit deliveries and it means that core drivers now end up with the multi-drop or double runs, meaning our working days have lengthened until the end of the reference period, at which time the compliance manager can’t figure out why so many drivers are being stood down and they struggle to get deliveries done on-time, if at all. New management haven’t helped by alienating staff, both in the office and amongst the drivers. Luckily I’m nearing retirement so I shall put up with the cr*p until then but long-term I really do wonder how they are going to keep things going.

Easy answer…

PUT

THE

PAY

UP

It really is that simple.

It isn’t the wages that are at issue in our place, we are on a fairly decent rate and the job is fairly easy, it’s just the fact that the agency drivers they had have almost all gone back home, the gaps are being filled with outside contractors and core drivers are being treated like excrement and pushed to the limit.