Brexit stuff in one place [MERGED]

[Winseer]

More trouble at mill! The EU are now referring to the Falklands Islands using the Argentine term Islas Malvinas

I think they have rewound on that one

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vi ... 0187&ei=23

Asking the UK to enter into "Dialogue" is as Un-PC as asking NATO for the same "DIalogue" over the future of Ukraine....

Notice too, that NATO and America in particular - supported the UK sovereignty over the Falklands NOT ONE JOT when we needed *them* to join the UK in OUR little war eh?

I say bugger NATO, bugger, Paris accord, and bugger the "International Court" - all of which are not fit for purpose, and encourage international "Mob Rule" behaviour, such as we see in Paris for some time since.

We should have left "Socialism" back in the 20th century like Nazism was supposed to be, not re-vitalize it as the "Only PC accepted form of Nationalism" which FFS is what Nazism happened to be all along.....

"Green" stuff is unachievable until and unless we have free electricity world-wide.
Green agenda chasing has pushed UP the price of electric however, and the simple fact is the world population of 8billions are NOT READY to live in grass huts at this time, nor any time for the forseeable future...
Perhaps post-nuclear holocaust maybe hmm?

[teech]

https://youtu.be/iwt1U4yIkBQ


Peter sums it up perfectly. Why vote for people you do not like?

I mean the current state of affairs are frankly tragic. I consider myself more right wing now... But I would vote for Corbyn over Starmer or Sunak any day.
Because even though I disagree with his politics... He believes in them... As messed up as that sounds.. I want a politician that believes in what they are saying.
Corbyn wants a socialist country for sure and he has barely changed message in the past 30-40 years. What does Starmer want? [zb] knows. What does Sunak want.. well whatever keeps him in power.

But I am very bitter when it comes to politics. My first vote was around the early 2010s. It was for the Lib dems because they promised to scrap university fees. At the time it was super important to me.. We all know how that turned out.



But on the brexit point. The failure of brexit lies with the politicians. The MPs wanted full control of every single law. 99.99% just wanted control of the borders. We could of had a good deal with the EU and kept the borders under control.. Yea, would of been a big ask to try and keep access to the single market without open borders but a deal was there to be mad.
We are in a worse spot now thanks to the tory party. The opportunity of brexit is only being used to benefit the wealthy.

Should we rejoin the EU though? No of course not. Not that they would take us back in anyway. A lot of EU countries benefited when we left the EU why would they let us back in and risk that? Germany might want us back in and a few others but largely it will be a long drawn out process that is not worth the hassle we need to move on.
Maybe Starmer can strike some deal but no doubt it will be a [zb] deal. So either way we are screwed no matter who is in power.


to paraphrase peter again

Voting legitimizes the voting system and those who gain power, by voting you are giving power and legitmacy to whoever wins the election.

We always had control of our borders. We were not in Schengen and under EU rules anyone from another EU country not finding work within 3 months could be sent home. Under the Dublin agreement we had the ability to send some asylum seekers back to other EU countries without hearing their claim. Our Government chose not to implement control for reasons known to them.
Brexit has only benefitted the disaster capitalists and those not wanting their tax affairs to be examined. The EU proposed implementing Tax transparency laws in 2020 and the city ran scared!

[adam277]

We always had control of our borders. We were not in Schengen and under EU rules anyone from another EU country not finding work within 3 months could be sent home. Under the Dublin agreement we had the ability to send some asylum seekers back to other EU countries without hearing their claim. Our Government chose not to implement control for reasons known to them.
Brexit has only benefitted the disaster capitalists and those not wanting their tax affairs to be examined. The EU proposed implementing Tax transparency laws in 2020 and the city ran scared!

We did not.
It is disingenuous to say we did.

Like it or not the reason people voted brexit was because they blamed immigration for the lack of jobs or undercutting of local people.

This was happening in the building trade 10000% percent. There is no denying this.
Same in the trucking game. When I worked at Tuffnells.. 70-80% of the hgv driver were from Romania.

As for asylum seekers.. we basically had an open door policy. We would send them back and they would go back to Calais for their next crack at getting in. Their chances were pretty good as we had free movement of goods so not all trucks were checked. Now it is more difficult and they opt for boats.
Yea technically we 'could' send someone home after 3 months. did it happen? probably but rarely.


I agree Brexit has been a failure. But it should of been an opportunity.
We could of had a good trade deal with the EU.. we did not for various reasons. We could of had a good trade deal with many other countries.. for whatever reason that has not happened.

Well the reason is clear. This government is completely useless. They wasted billions during the pandemic and they are wasting even more money now in Ukraine.


But either way.
Re-joining the EU is not an option. Even if we did rejoin the EU it would not solve much.

[teech]

We always had control of our borders. We were not in Schengen and under EU rules anyone from another EU country not finding work within 3 months could be sent home. Under the Dublin agreement we had the ability to send some asylum seekers back to other EU countries without hearing their claim. Our Government chose not to implement control for reasons known to them.
Brexit has only benefitted the disaster capitalists and those not wanting their tax affairs to be examined. The EU proposed implementing Tax transparency laws in 2020 and the city ran scared!

We did not.
It is disingenuous to say we did.

Like it or not the reason people voted brexit was because they blamed immigration for the lack of jobs or undercutting of local people.

This was happening in the building trade 10000% percent. There is no denying this.
Same in the trucking game. When I worked at Tuffnells.. 70-80% of the hgv driver were from Romania.

As for asylum seekers.. we basically had an open door policy. We would send them back and they would go back to Calais for their next crack at getting in. Their chances were pretty good as we had free movement of goods so not all trucks were checked. Now it is more difficult and they opt for boats.
Yea technically we 'could' send someone home after 3 months. did it happen? probably but rarely.


I agree Brexit has been a failure. But it should of been an opportunity.
We could of had a good trade deal with the EU.. we did not for various reasons. We could of had a good trade deal with many other countries.. for whatever reason that has not happened.

Well the reason is clear. This government is completely useless. They wasted billions during the pandemic and they are wasting even more money now in Ukraine.


But either way.
Re-joining the EU is not an option. Even if we did rejoin the EU it would not solve much.

It is far from dis-ingenuous to say we had control of our borders. No country ever has complete control of it's borders in the modern trading world, and history tells us thus, way back to Medieval history, with the Jews, Romans, Anglo-Saxons. Huguenots..........all driven by trade and the pull of prosperity coming to Britain.
People forget that borders have two sides and the flow of people takes both parties to control them.
That we failed on our side was much a political decision as anything else, as you alluded to! We could have controlled flows better but didn't due to actions you highlighted ie Builder and Driver shortages, but again that is down to policy failures by our Governments' and Businesses' for not investing in Education and Training, but relying on cheaper imported labour. It is a two way street. Remember the 80s when builders went to Germany to work and pre-Brexit how Ex-pats, sorry immigrants (for that is what they are though they gripe at the sheer idea of being labelled as such) flocked to Spain and Portugal to retire because the conditions were better. That many of them voted Brexit really was akin to Turkey's voting for Christmas, given their circumstances. (and yes I understand why they voted as such having been lied to by the Government of the day regarding their status)
Now we have left, the EU they are now doing what we should, and could have done pre-Brexit given the concessions granted to us, controlling their borders with Britain!
This is worth a read. https://www.ft.com/content/c921bf8a-26a ... c9efe432a9

Asylum seekers? Whilst not an ideal situation by any metric, we receive small numbers compared to other EU countries and again the failure lies at the door of the Government. During Covid workers from the immigration and Asylum services were re-directed to implement Brexit and have not been replaced hence a huge backlog in processing and returns. Migrants will always try to get to their chosen country of destination. It is how you deal with them when they successfully enter the country having avoided any controls put in place.
I would opine that we have in fact made the problem worse. The EU proposed allowing Britain to open Asylum application centres in capital cities in Europe. The British Government refused and have implemented policies that preclude any opportunity to apply for asylum from anywhere - unless you have money of course. People might agree with that but it goes against International Law and diminishes our status within the world community.

As you say Brexit gave us opportunities but they were thrown away due to absolute ignorance, stupidity and intransigence from our negotiators and a Government consisting of MPs just not being anywhere up to the job.
That this Government is useless? Totally agree and I would argue dangerous as well. They have made an appalling job of Brexit due to ignorance, stupidity, greed, arrogance, entitlement and elitist ideals, and produced a polarised population to boot!

FPTP will not change that situation and in my opinion PR voting needs to be implemented now. Won't happen of course as the present system favours the political elite. Even if PR (if introduced) were prove no better at least the people of the country would be better represented - and yes that includes the far right, far left, Greens, Liberals, Radicals, Monster Raving Loonies ........ That is surely a better form of democracy.

[JeffA]

Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving. The UK is keeping 36 pesticides that the EU have banned despite the "We will maintain environmental protections" garbage they said. What an absolute disaster this has been. Migrations twice as bad and the only people it seemed to satisfy are a few Eton schoolboys.

[dozy]

Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving. The UK is keeping 36 pesticides that the EU have banned despite the "We will maintain environmental protections" garbage they said. What an absolute disaster this has been. Migrations twice as bad and the only people it seemed to satisfy are a few Eton schoolboys.

Well your mate stammer is now on about doing a deal with the eu on burden sharing on immigrants ( the same one Poland / Hungary) are pushing back on ) , we will take our fair share of There ( Eu ) migrants , marvellous , just turn illegal migrants into legal migrants ,
As for brexit , I voted remain, I’m far from a Eaton schoolboy & ive certainly seen the benefits wage wise , the only ones I here moaning I you & your commie / left wing / remain mates & bosses

[Bone Shaker]

Dozy is correct, if that happens it will be 100,000 per year arriving here.

[Winseer]

Isn't the simple truth that SOME people would have been better off without Brexit, but others that happened to prove to be the majority - felt that "Serious Change and Upheaval" was worth the risk of a better life a that point?

Here we are, 7 years on - Did we finally get in OUR industry what we voted for?

Hell Yes!

And bear in mind that the "Driver Uplift" of two years back - was achieved without a single person being deported to achieve it!

The Weak Pound was enough reason for plenty of people here "sending money back to the Wife abroad" - to cease and desist...

These days, the motivator for further economic migrants to come to this "Treasure Island" - is to "Monetize their command of the English Language". Note that the reverse doesn't seem to happen much.
When did any "General Workforce" of THIS country "go abroad for a better deal"?

"Don't want tomorrow to be like today" was more about UK unemployment - rather than "Brickies seeking a pay rise" - was it not?

Those who thought they'd lose out unless they voted Remain however - have yet to lose what they feared losing....

The "Upheaval" therefore isn't anywhere NEAR finished yet.

Perhaps the oncoming "Downturn" is only going to be for Office Wallers rather than those of us with the *real* jobs now?

[switchlogic]

Those who thought they'd lose out unless they voted Remain however - have yet to lose what they feared losing....

You think? What do you think remainers thought they’d lose out on? Couple of words will do not the usual sea of nonsense. Many thanks

[Winseer]

Those who thought they'd lose out unless they voted Remain however - have yet to lose what they feared losing....

You think? What do you think remainers thought they’d lose out on? Couple of words will do not the usual sea of nonsense. Many thanks

Why did Remainers vote Remain?

"Fear of Brexit" would have been the main reason.
"Fear of whatever the Right wants" - would likely be another one.


Democracy works - until people stop voting in the majority for leftist crap.
At that point, the Left subverts their own system, and their own interpretation OF it - just to tread water in the face of what lately appears to be an advancing golden age of conservatism.

Wanna keep your cushy, "job for life"? - That's actually now considered a *conservative* desire and aim!


Wanna sacrifice everything you've got "to help someone else out you'll never actually meet"? (and who likely doesn't actually exist.....)

The Left-lawyer money laundering scam - is finally coming to an end.
Any incoming world leader - might like to remove "Tax Relief" from all charitable donations *next* - because that is one of the remaining planks of the entire political class power base.
The ability to steal taxpayer funds - by having "rich donors" like Bill Gates, Soros, et al to donate a million - just so they can claim tax relief of whatever percent from actual taxpayer paid money....

Proper enforcement of Brexit - permits any country to adopt any policy it likes - on a global scale as "National Policy".

It would yet be nice for Britain to be the first western nation to totally pull the plug on the "Foreign Aid Budget" as well.
ALL possible IF we implement Brexit as it fully should have been from the beginning.

We're already seeing China lessening their purchases of Western Debt Paper don't forget.
Why don't we reciprocate at least by cutting aid to China, India, and other BRICs at very least to zero?
Costs little. Saves a fortune. Improves the life for ALL Brits, not just those on one side or other of politics...
Wot's not-to-like here?

[switchlogic]

Well, can’t say that was unexpected

[Winseer]

Well, can’t say that was unexpected

No actual argument(s) against my own then?

[switchlogic]

I'm not sure there's any point to be fair

[Juddian]

Dozy is correct, if that happens it will be 100,000 per year arriving here.

Wasn't it just over a million supposedly legal immigrants last year and well over 50,000 illegals (the ones they know about or admit to), and all this from a fake conservative party which promised to cut immigration to the tens of thousands year on year but who in practice have increased both legal and illegal immigration every year without fail.
The illegals by the way they actually send out the lifeboats and border farce to ferry them in, paid for with taxes taken from us, if you tried to write a fiction based on the truth it would be too far fetched and no publisher would touch it.
Teresa May signed us into the Global Compact for migration just before her ludicrous reign ended.

Not as it will make a scrap of difference whatever team of the Uniparty's turn it is next time in numbers 10 and 11 Drowning Street, the decisions arn't made there they are made in the numerous three letter acronyms that comprise the rich and their placepersons, none of whom have been elected by an idiotic voting public who think we can vote our way out of the destiny the elite and oligarch class have planned for us plebs.
By the way, the leaders of the Davos oligarchs actually call themselves the Elite so blinding is their hubris, they arn't hiding the fact they have various people in govts throughout the world, they boast of it.