Truss vs Sunak

[adam277]

Who would you want in power?

I honestly think both are [zb].
Truss wants huge tax cuts that no one seems to want other than those on the far right of the tory party.
Sunak gave away billions of money during covid and has been anything but frugal.

My view is that the worst thing this government did was shut down the country over covid. They let tens of millions of healthy people stay at home that were perfectly healthy while paying them to stay at home. Sunak spent billions unnecessary by giving people 'free' money.
Now to Sunak's credit he seems to realize that if you spend hundreds of billions of pounds you can not suddenly implement tax cuts. Although only a tiny amount of credit goes to him because he was the [zb] that helped cause this issue.

As for Truss, she wants to borrow more money to fund her tax cuts. No. NO MORE [zb] BORROWING lol. No tax cuts. Get the country out of debt first.



It feels disappointing that these are the only two choices.
I do like Truss's plan of regional pay for the civil sector though. Yea [zb] YOU DVLA SWANSEA. You've screwed millions over by your refusal to properly return to work. I am usually a pro union guy in regards to the DVLA union in wales they can be busted up.

[Carryfast]

We do need tax cuts/removal on regressive council tax, VAT and fuel duty among other taxes which tax income twice and hit the lowest earners most..We need a tax increase on the 40% income tax band to at least 60% preferably 80%.
As for the LabLibCon uniparty who cares only a fool would vote for any of them and expect a different result.

[adam277]

We do need tax cuts/removal on regressive council tax, VAT and fuel duty among other taxes which tax income twice and hit the lowest earners most..We need a tax increase on the 40% income tax band to at least 60% preferably 80%.
As for the LabLibCon uniparty who cares only a fool would vote for any of them and expect a different result.

We do.
But we cant.
We paid for millions of peoples wages for best part of a year. You do not spend over half a trillion pound on covid then cut the taxes that are used to pay it back.

Also giving far too much to Ukraine. We should be giving them £0.

[Juddian]

Whichever of these clowns gets the keys to number 10 is only going to confirm the tories will be out come the next election.
On the plus side, it should bring to a head the desperate need for the alternative parties, who actually believe in conservatism, to bury their differences and unite under one banner.

We need a return to politics where one side is diametrically different and opposed to the other.
A return of a Labour or other party that represents the working classes that it doesn't in reality despise, with politicians drawn from those classes who have genuinely worked in real jobs before entering national politics.
A patriotic conservative party of whatever name that hold the nation first and believes in conserving things.
Both parties should declare whether they believe in open borders, and if they do when in power protect our borders.

At present we have the uniparty where almost all the politicians are as interchangeable as the policies they speak of but have little or no intention of ever upholding, it doesn't matter whether the red or blue team win and arguably it hasn't mattered since 1997, we still have Blairite govt to this day no matter which team is supposed to be in charge and neither Fishy or Truss is going to change that unless Blofeld in Davos orders it.

[Carryfast]

We do need tax cuts/removal on regressive council tax, VAT and fuel duty among other taxes which tax income twice and hit the lowest earners most..We need a tax increase on the 40% income tax band to at least 60% preferably 80%.
As for the LabLibCon uniparty who cares only a fool would vote for any of them and expect a different result.

We do.
But we cant.
We paid for millions of peoples wages for best part of a year. You do not spend over half a trillion pound on covid then cut the taxes that are used to pay it back.

Also giving far too much to Ukraine. We should be giving them £0.

I didn't say cut tax I said reform the system away from regressive taxation on spending and Council Tax robbery.

Taxation on spending actually creates the lose lose situation of being avoided by minimising purchases.
To the point where the tesulting impact on economic growth exceeds the tax revenues obtained.
Also all forms of regressive tax imposes an unsustainable burden on those least able to afford it.
Including taxing already compromised low incomes twice.
Which leaves the laughable situation of rabidly anti fossil fuel use pro climate scam LibDems calling for petrol price reductions.

[Carryfast]

Whichever of these clowns gets the keys to number 10 is only going to confirm the tories will be out come the next election.
On the plus side, it should bring to a head the desperate need for the alternative parties, who actually believe in conservatism, to bury their differences and unite under one banner.

We need a return to politics where one side is diametrically different and opposed to the other.
A return of a Labour or other party that represents the working classes that it doesn't in reality despise, with politicians drawn from those classes who have genuinely worked in real jobs before entering national politics.
A patriotic conservative party of whatever name that hold the nation first and believes in conserving things.
Both parties should declare whether they believe in open borders, and if they do when in power protect our borders.

At present we have the uniparty where almost all the politicians are as interchangeable as the policies they speak of but have little or no intention of ever upholding, it doesn't matter whether the red or blue team win and arguably it hasn't mattered since 1997, we still have Blairite govt to this day no matter which team is supposed to be in charge and neither Fishy or Truss is going to change that unless Blofeld in Davos orders it.

The idea of uniting the so called right and the sensible left is like herding cats.
You only need to see how Farage turned on Gerard Batten and advised everyone to vote for false flag LibDem plant Johnson instead.
We're doomed without a miracle.The only surprise is how long it's taken since the wheels came off in the late 1970's but they've still managed to keep the circus and farce going.

[Franglais]

I am not a fan of either of them but to be fair, they do sometimes get it right.
Listen to this broadcast: after 12 years of Tory rule the two of them tell us what they have achieved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF_PaLNYNMA

[Carryfast]

I am not a fan of either of them but to be fair, they do sometimes get it right.
Listen to this broadcast: after 12 years of Tory rule the two of them tell us what they have achieved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF_PaLNYNMA

The Tories are no different to the LabLib side of the uniparty.
What they've 'acheived' is making the EU larger and China stronger at our expense in both cases.

[adam277]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62436193


Now that is pretty damaging lol

[Franglais]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62436193


Now that is pretty damaging lol

Agreed.
Remember Jenrick?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... m-24269389

83% of fund to Tory seats.
And remember there are 365 Tory seats out of 650. About 56%?

Of course that would be justified if the Tories had predominantly poor seats.
I won`t voice any opinion. I`ll let anyone who wants to, think about that for themselves.

[robroy]

A return of a Labour or other party that represents the working classes that it doesn't in reality despise, with politicians drawn from those classes who have genuinely worked in real jobs before entering national politics.
.

This all day long.
Btw anybody noticed the (hidden) agenda to reduce the good service of the NHS in order to urge people to go private?
You just about have to pass a 'sickness aptitude test' over the phone to see a GP,.then it's in weeks rather than days.
Waiting times for scans, even results of tests are now ridiculous.
My mate had to have a scan before he flew in 2 months,.NHS said 3 month waiting list,.he went private and got a choice of days within a week.
A preference for Private Health schemes is the aim, through stealth and the back door...as dentistry is nowadays.

[adam277]

A return of a Labour or other party that represents the working classes that it doesn't in reality despise, with politicians drawn from those classes who have genuinely worked in real jobs before entering national politics.
.

This all day long.
Btw anybody noticed the (hidden) agenda to reduce the good service of the NHS in order to urge people to go private?
You just about have to pass a 'sickness aptitude test' over the phone to see a GP,.then it's in weeks rather than days.
Waiting times for scans, even results of tests are now ridiculous.
My mate had to have a scan before he flew in 2 months,.NHS said 3 month waiting list,.he went private and got a choice of days within a week.
A preference for Private Health schemes is the aim, through stealth and the back door...as dentistry is nowadays.

The way a lot of GP surgeries are currently run is a complete joke. For a lot of them you are not allowed to go there unless you have an appointment. Even to make an appointment. Phone only.
GP surgeries have always been full of sick people so there was always a chance of getting sick by going there. Nowadays though, the risk of covid is so great that it trumps everything.

We also in this country have an issue of a lot of old people who enjoy going to the doctors. It's like a day out for them. They will book an appointment because their leg is creaky or they are croaking when they cough or some other stupid thing. To be fair its not just old people but generally yea.


I'm not saying it is particularly healthy but the last time I went to the Doctor as an adult was when I booked a medical for my HGV license prob back in 2016. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a Doctor. I'd say each time it prob was not even needed.

[Winseer]

We never got asked as voters if we wanted Boris back....

We never got asked if we "forgive" Boris, it was just assumed by the wider party that the Tories feel that they cannot win the next election *with* him any longer.
Same thing that happened to Thatcher, essentially, and Sunak is in the position *now* that "Tarzan" Hesletine was in back then...

John Major, who didn't even bother to put his hat in the ring at first - ended up becoming the next PM at 66-1 odds.

Sunak - would be financially bad for this country, and financially good for the super-rich like himself.

Truss - wants to spend money that China have not agreed to lend us yet, bearing in mind they are in the process of tightening their OWN belts right now....

Quite frankly, I reckon the Tories should have gone quietly into the night the moment they lost faith in Boris among themselves, and let him have his election to let the PUBLIC decide.

That election - would likely have gone the way of John Major's election in 1992 - held on, full majority - but less OF it.

As it stands now - this disgruntled former Boris supporter - is looking for a fourth name to vote for on all my ballot papers.

If that "4th name" is 'Lord Dark Helmet' - then so be it.

[robroy]

The irony this morning on Sky News.
They dug up.Gordon [zb] Brown, for his take on how HE would handle the present cost of living 'crisis'.if he was PM.again.
I knocked him off instantly the man is a clown.
, I assume his answer would be he' d do what he did last time.
Virtually bankrupt the [zb] country.

[Juddian]

I refuse to watch mainstream news, or anything live broadcast via the legacy media for that matter seeing as we cancelled the telly licence, but to wheel Gordon Brown out must show to even the most blinkered tribal voter that not only to they despise us/you but they're now openly taking the piss.

[Winseer]

The irony this morning on Sky News.
They dug up.Gordon [zb] Brown, for his take on how HE would handle the present cost of living 'crisis'.if he was PM.again.
I knocked him off instantly the man is a clown.
, I assume his answer would be he' d do what he did last time.
Virtually bankrupt the [zb] country.

Brown didn't want to gamble on an early election in 2008, when he would have probably held on with a reduced majority, had he taken the plunge at that time. Instead he lost in 2010, and Cleggy upset the Left by going in with Cameron instead of propping up Brown in what would have also required a third coalition partner on account of Cleggy's libdems losing net seats in the 2010 election.

What Brown COULD have done was "let the banks float" which would have resulted in those weaker ones then going to the wall, unbailed out by the UK taxpayer. The banking system would have retaliated by preventing Labour from borrowing money with their help in future, and the UK would have faced a recession at that point, but a write-off of national debt in the process that would have left the country far better off 5-10 years later, especially what with the bullet-dodge of NO BLACK ROCK OSBOURNE to give us over a decade of austerity since.....


On "Banking" I'm as left-wing as the late Tony Benn btw.

*they* the bankers - rather than the British Taxpayer - should have been thrown under the bus to save the country in 2008.

[ROG]

Truss idea is to make the rich better off with her plan
Sunak has a much better plan for targeting the less well off

Boris was the right PM for Brexit
Sunak will be the best PM for a financial crisis

[Carryfast]

Truss idea is to make the rich better off with her plan
Sunak has a much better plan for targeting the less well off

Boris was the right PM for Brexit
Sunak will be the best PM for a financial crisis

I doubt it.
Every one of the Uniparties are all onside with regressive taxation including road fuel duty + 20% VAT and forcing us all to go all electric at 30p per kWh + standing charge and VAT and going North from that in a big way as part of the climate scam.Sunak is no different.
Just another Tory minimising income tax for the highest earners by loading it onto VAT and carbon tax and council tax.

[stu675]

Truss idea is to make the rich better off with her plan
Sunak has a much better plan for targeting the less well off

Boris was the right PM for Brexit
Sunak will be the best PM for a financial crisis

Sunak should never ever be forgiven for Covid. Covid wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for him and his handouts.

[ROG]

Sunak should never ever be forgiven for Covid. Covid wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for him and his handouts.

I thought Wuhan in China was responsible

[stu675]

Sunak should never ever be forgiven for Covid. Covid wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for him and his handouts.

I thought Wuhan in China was responsible

Without the handouts, the lockdowns would not have been possible. People would have had to been allowed to work and to consume (i.e. provide other people with a living), and the country's finances would not be in the dire straits that they are.
Wuhan, you have to trace that further back to the US government probably for responsibility.

[Franglais]

We`ve had 3 weeks of non-government as Sunak and Truss battle it out for the votes of a tiny proportion of the population. Another 3 to go.
Meanwhile the current idiot in the Westminster village says the power companies "should act in the national interest"!
Which nation`s interest, I wonder?
They aren`t all UK owned. And as private companies they are there to make a return for shareholders, anything else is a dereliction of management.

That Johnson etc are merely making noises to appease voters has been clear for a long time.
Asking private foreign companies to do what the UK Gov should be doing really is taking the piss.

[Carryfast]

We`ve had 3 weeks of non-government as Sunak and Truss battle it out for the votes of a tiny proportion of the population. Another 3 to go.
Meanwhile the current idiot in the Westminster village says the power companies "should act in the national interest"!
Which nation`s interest, I wonder?
They aren`t all UK owned. And as private companies they are there to make a return for shareholders, anything else is a dereliction of management.

That Johnson etc are merely making noises to appease voters has been clear for a long time.
Asking private foreign companies to do what the UK Gov should be doing really is taking the piss.

Act in the national interest like withdrawing from the Paris Accord and abolishing the £78 per tonne 'carbon' tax and removing VAT from fuel and stopping exports of our oil and gas resourced.While we pay as much for our own oil and gas as Germany and France while they tell us to go all nuclear electric.
National interest indeed.

[the nodding donkey]

We`ve had 3 weeks of non-government as Sunak and Truss battle it out for the votes of a tiny proportion of the population. Another 3 to go.
Meanwhile the current idiot in the Westminster village says the power companies "should act in the national interest"!
Which nation`s interest, I wonder?
They aren`t all UK owned. And as private companies they are there to make a return for shareholders, anything else is a dereliction of management.

That Johnson etc are merely making noises to appease voters has been clear for a long time.
Asking private foreign companies to do what the UK Gov should be doing really is taking the piss.

A pertinent point, mostly overlooked/ignored. Not only do the utility companies not re-invest their profits into the infrastructure (leaking water pipes....), they actually tale 5he profits out of this country.....

You'll be waiting in vain for any of our politicos to mention that though. After all, it was them, who sold all our real estate to foreign companies, to shore up their budgets. I.e. to pay for tax cut bribes for Doriz and Derek in Tunbridge Wells....

We need a comete overhaul of the system.. dispose of the current crop of self serving lying scumbags in Westminster, and nationalise the essential services and utilities.

March on Westminster Brothers and Sisters

[Juddian]

We`ve had 3 weeks of non-government as Sunak and Truss battle it out for the votes of a tiny proportion of the population.

Its a bit like being in a union at a company, if there's a union meeting or a vote then the non union members arn't invited or consulted or get a vote, because simply they aint in the union.
Neither you or i and the vast majority of the country, sensibly, arn't con party members so quite correctly we don't get a say, the con party members have been given Hobson's choice anyway as neither contender is remotely conservative by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh they'll hint at the right things, but just as it's been ever since i've been out of nappies these people have no concept of honour, their word means nothing, you couldn't trust them to tell you the time.

3 weeks? it might as well be 3 or 30 years and they'll still be wrecking everything, it would be more efficient to by pass the well rewarded middle men/women/other politicians and uncivil service altogether and let Blofeld plus Persian Cat plus assorted members of Spectre sign off on the fate they have decided for us directly, it would at least be an honest dictatorship rather than the elected smoke and mirrors version we've had for decades.

and another bus went past

[Carryfast]

We`ve had 3 weeks of non-government as Sunak and Truss battle it out for the votes of a tiny proportion of the population.

Its a bit like being in a union at a company, if there's a union meeting or a vote then the non union members arn't invited or consulted or get a vote, because simply they aint in the union.
Neither you or i and the vast majority of the country, sensibly, arn't con party members so quite correctly we don't get a say, the con party members have been given Hobson's choice anyway as neither contender is remotely conservative by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh they'll hint at the right things, but just as it's been ever since i've been out of nappies these people have no concept of honour, their word means nothing, you couldn't trust them to tell you the time.

3 weeks? it might as well be 3 or 30 years and they'll still be wrecking everything, it would be more efficient to by pass the well rewarded middle men/women/other politicians and uncivil service altogether and let Blofeld plus Persian Cat plus assorted members of Spectre sign off on the fate they have decided for us directly, it would at least be an honest dictatorship rather than the elected smoke and mirrors version we've had for decades.

and another bus went past

To be fair all the Bond film baddies and Stalin combined didn't have the propaganda arm, creating the amount of useful idiots in support, that agenda 30 has got.
Even Blofield would have beaten Bond with the BBC onside.

[Winseer]

Truss idea is to make the rich better off with her plan
Sunak has a much better plan for targeting the less well off

Boris was the right PM for Brexit
Sunak will be the best PM for a financial crisis

Whilst I suspect that Sunak is going to come from behind to win this, "Deep State Pick" and all - it is worth mentioning that Sunak's Handouts, on which I had another thread going - are only to those people "not actually seeking employment".

With the recession coming, THOSE people - are going to have the pressure to "take a job, any job" taken off their shoulders.

Meanwhile, people claiming "in work" benefits, of which there must be an awful lot of the lighter-skinned foreign nationals right now - are getting quietly thrown under the bus....

We've already had the IR35 crackdown, sending a good many of them back home again.

How many of them got re-employed in any decent-paid job after the lockdown though?

Then there's the issue of these "cost of living payments":

One lot is supposedly for people claiming any kind of benefit - but NOT those benefits that involve "in-work" payments though.
The other lot, with a wider net coming our way this Autumn - a lot of people are expecting, nay COUNTING on getting in time for the winter doubled-down fuel bills....

Thing is, if a person is on job seekers allowance, say - and you take a minimum waged job, which USED to entitle one to a UC top-up - *now* if you are getting paid any wage at all that means you don't get a benefit payment each and EVERY month - you don't even qualify for the £326 payment - so how on earth can anyone *working* qualify for the Energy Bill payments expected this autumn????

The Tories have effectively "double-means-tested" these payments, which only the workshy and disabled will qualify for.

"lack of access to the NHS" among the general public however - means that that old loophole of "get diagnosed with a bad back, and get benefits for life, no restrictions, no pressure to take a job" - is fast being closed, making Sunak the "Thatcherite" he indeed claims to be.....

Quite frankly, we need a leader who gets britain back to work again, not pushes people all the way off the edge that *used* to be sat squarely in the middle, classes AND Politics...

I can see Keir Starmer inheriting number 10 in 2024, now that there's no other names on the ballot paper left to "get rid of the Tories" with... Where's the TDS-like hatred for Sunak meanwhile? He's a Tory ain't he? C'mon Man, Lefties! - Where's your hatred all of a sudden? Stop buggering about with these "Green" protests, and let's see Sunak get the same treatment Boris got - from youz, on the left at very least...

[Carryfast]

"lack of access to the NHS" among the general public however - means that that old loophole of "get diagnosed with a bad back, and get benefits for life, no restrictions, no pressure to take a job" - is fast being closed,

^ A 'bad back' never exempted anyone from the 'all work incapacity test' unless they were effectively paralysed from the neck down and even then they'd probably still be called in to make sure and to obtain evidence by self incrimination in the case of any suspected scammers.