What would you do?

[evil8beezle]

You obviously have to be sensible with defects, what exactly stops you from running, and marker lights are just small fry…

But I don’t really see how mentioning the fault at the end of the shift helps us as a whole, especially when it’s a corporate firm where the attitude can often be ‘someone else’s problem’. The admin want your paperwork and that’s it! They are not the next driver in the truck and as such you can’t be that surprised if they do sweet FA about the issue, be it a marker light or something else… However, if management have had to start the paper trail of passing crap back up the chain, their perception of the issue may be a little better.

Diplomacy therefore may be the answer to resolving defects. And as I don’t have any, I just find it nice and simple to note a defect, and say “your call boss”, sign here and we crack on, or give me another truck…

As for defects out on the road, say I was on a night trunk and a headlight bulb blew. Possibly as I’d not really done my checks properly and ensured I had a spare. I’d note where and when it blew, why I couldn’t replace it, and crack on. Not ideal, but as long as you’ve still got a side light to outline your size, you’re probably only on big roads, I don’t see it as a major deal. Refusing to shift until recovery comes, now that’s a different matter!

Yes you can argue that denying knowledge of a defect makes you less culpable, but isn’t there also a trade off against competency? And when you do get a tug, how good are you at blagging stuff, as I’m crap! So I guess I go the other route of doing everything by the book and use my common sense to decide what stops me rolling.

All Newbies go through a learning curve of what the crack is with defects, who does what, and what is, or isn’t serious. I’ve driven trucks with defects that possibly I shouldn’t. I didn’t enjoy doing class 1 mult-drop without any reversing lights, as the office and fitter both told me they weren’t a defect, as they are not an MOT failure. A Newbie does what at this point? Do they google it, or just crack on? As the answer isn’t quite black and white from what I can tell. As I understand it, a vehicle doesn’t have to have them, but if they are there, they should work. So do you end up arguing semantics of how the law is interpreted, with someone who does the firms MOT’s? Probably not if you’re a Newbie, but the fact still remains that you’re the one who has to then spend the day dealing with the general public unable to indicate to them WTF you’re trying to do… So my thinking is this, OK it’s not an MOT failure, just sign that here and we are good to go mate! As that’s the only real pressure you can put on management to sort it out without throwing toys, all in an effort to make your life easier tomorrow.

And as if by magic, i got a better trailer!

Sorry if another limper got the old one, but that’s his issue now, and if he’s prepared to put up with the dross, more fool him. He’s not exactly helping the cause if you’re all in it together at a firm with a ‘them and us’ blame and accountability focused culture. And if he thinks the firm will repay his flexibility when the crap hits the fan, he’s going to be sadly mistaken…

You cover your own arse, as no one is going to do it for you, especially the firm!
Whether you/I can do that without being an arse about it, who knows…

[tuckert92]

When you get pulled, the answer is yes officer the lights were working on check this morning, I will be sure to notify my TM at the first available chance

[tachograph]

Evil8Beezle:
You obviously have to be sensible with defects, what exactly stops you from running, and marker lights are just small fry…

But I don’t really see how mentioning the fault at the end of the shift helps us as a whole, especially when it’s a corporate firm where the attitude can often be ‘someone else’s problem’. The admin want your paperwork and that’s it! They are not the next driver in the truck and as such you can’t be that surprised if they do sweet FA about the issue, be it a marker light or something else… However, if management have had to start the paper trail of passing crap back up the chain, their perception of the issue may be a little better.

For something like marker lights I would either fix or report the fault at the start of the shift, if it can be fixed that’s great, if not the TM has been made aware of the problem and has the day to sort out a repair for when the vehicle returns and a defect note is put in.

I wouldn’t condone leaving a fault to the next driver to sort out, I’ve been on the wrong end of that scenario to many times to do it to anyone else

If something goes wrong during the shift that doesn’t need an immediate repair and there’s a chance that the company might have to get new parts, phone it in so the TM can make sure any new parts needed are available when the vehicle returns to base then crack on.

[evil8beezle]

Big burner:
Handily at a DVSA seminar yesterday a vehicle examiner used this as an example of where to draw the line regarding defects.
Note his example made the assumption you weren’t starting from base, but from an overnight stop. He said; The marker light should be noted as defective and reported to the office for permission to drive. It then relies on someone in the office being conversant with the ‘categorisation of defects’. They could then authorise you to drive it and make arrangements for it to be repaired, you should record this. In the event you are stopped by enforcement they would except this, possibly contacting the Operator to confirm they had made the arrangements for it’s repair. If however it was for something such as an indicator then the Operator should not give permission to drive as according to the categorisation of defects he would know that this is subject to a Prohibition.

So ‘officially’ if it’s not a prohibition item and it, cough,cough ‘happened away from base’, crack on!

That’s the key word for me ‘authorise’ as it’s basically saying to me; delegate up and absolve yourself of the responsibility…

Then comes the issue of getting that authorisation more than just verbally…

Because you might not be able to get that, if stopped, you can’t use it anyway if you haven’t also done your paperwork.
Only if you have, can you argue that the call at X, was the conversation there you were ‘authorised’ to proceed.

Corporate employment is all about compliance, and it’s not really something you can fight, and the way I see it you have to just lump the soulless zero trust reality of it, and embrace the few aspect that might help you. And trying to keep up the standard of vehicle maintenance by ensuring all issues/defects leave a paper trail, has to be to the benefit of all drivers at the firm■■? After all, the accountant is not your friend! They’ll be looking to constantly trim the overheads…

The words about it being ‘the drivers licence to protect’ got mentioned, and as I see it, the more of a paper trail you leave, the more you take the focus off your licence, and put it on to your employers licence. Now how can that be bad a bad thing for us?

P.S. What I’d do for a family firm all pulled together however, would be a completely different story!

[franglais]

Evil8Beezle:
P.S. What I’d do for a family firm all pulled together however, would be a completely different story!

So, are you about to buy some Tattersall shirts, brown Trader boots, and ask DD999 if he knows of any jobs going driving V8s??

But your point is a valid one. How to behave in a Mega Corp environment where they play the game by Their Book, is to play by their rules: they expect and want small cogs, to toe the line. In a smaller company where you are treated as an individual with a brain, you should behave like one: take a commonsense decision and just get on with the job.

[happysack]

Your an agency driver you say? Get a real job you fanny.

[evil8beezle]

Franglais:

Evil8Beezle:
P.S. What I’d do for a family firm all pulled together however, would be a completely different story!

So, are you about to buy some Tattersall shirts, brown Trader boots, and ask DD999 if he knows of any jobs going driving V8s??

But your point is a valid one. How to behave in a Mega Corp environment where they play the game by Their Book, is to play by their rules: they expect and want small cogs, to toe the line. In a smaller company where you are treated as an individual with a brain, you should behave like one: take a commonsense decision and just get on with the job.

I’m not that emasculated yet, but it would be wise for those that can’t tolerate or tow the line when it comes to corporate bull, to maybe look at smaller operations. Whether they are Irish or not, I’ll not comment!

I personally would view a small set up as preferable to probably enjoying the job more, and if one came up around me that caught my eye, I wouldn’t think twice out of loyalty for a corporate monster…

[dieseldog999]

Evil8Beezle:

Franglais:

Evil8Beezle:
P.S. What I’d do for a family firm all pulled together however, would be a completely different story!

So, are you about to buy some Tattersall shirts, brown Trader boots, and ask DD999 if he knows of any jobs going driving V8s??

But your point is a valid one. How to behave in a Mega Corp environment where they play the game by Their Book, is to play by their rules: they expect and want small cogs, to toe the line. In a smaller company where you are treated as an individual with a brain, you should behave like one: take a commonsense decision and just get on with the job.

I’m not that emasculated yet, but it would be wise for those that can’t tolerate or tow the line when it comes to corporate bull, to maybe look at smaller operations. Whether they are Irish or not, I’ll not comment!

I personally would view a small set up as preferable to probably enjoying the job more, and if one came up around me that caught my eye, I wouldn’t think twice out of loyalty for a corporate monster…

good man,so that means your really a hooligan at heart but havnt got around to joining the right firm…i bet theres a few more like you.

[lennoxtown]

Tuckert92:
When you get pulled, the answer is yes officer the lights were working on check this morning, I will be sure to notify my TM at the first available chance

I agree, that’d be my answer… but just a little tip, make sure some other bugger hasn’t actually pinched the bulb ( it happens! ) from the truck
before you got to the it ( which would explain why it’s not working! )… as you’ll look a right ■■■■ telling the officer “It was working when I checked it
this morning” if they should open it and find the bulb missing!! Lol

[radar19]

Franglais:

Evil8Beezle:
P.S. What I’d do for a family firm all pulled together however, would be a completely different story!

So, are you about to buy some Tattersall shirts, brown Trader boots, and ask DD999 if he knows of any jobs going driving V8s??

But your point is a valid one. How to behave in a Mega Corp environment where they play the game by Their Book, is to play by their rules: they expect and want small cogs, to toe the line. In a smaller company where you are treated as an individual with a brain, you should behave like one: take a commonsense decision and just get on with the job.

Whilst my lot is a large company, my TM is old school. If you went to him saying a bulb was out, he’d hand you a new bulb and a screw driver and say get on with it. Since we work with ferry stuff, its nearly always hosed. I’ve had trailers with no bulbs, light clusters full of water, hell, one of my fellow drivers picked up a trailer where someone had actually cut off the every single marker light including the white ones on the headboard! I’ve been blessed with on what I can count on one hand, a new trailer where nothing was wrong with it. 99% of the time something is buggered on it. Be it curtains, buckles, lights, tyres, air lines, roof supports, doors, ad nauseam. The downsides of using gear that is subjected to the sea and every Tom, ■■■■ and Harry across Europe.

[billythewhizz]

I would have changed it if I knew how to reach the top. As far as I know there is no ladder on site.

All repair work is done by Mercedes.

Its still not been fixed and was out on the road again today. Not driven by me by the way.

[dieseldog999]

billythewhizz:
I would have changed it if I knew how to reach the top. As far as I know there is no ladder on site.

All repair work is done by Mercedes.

Its still not been fixed and was out on the road again today. Not driven by me by the way.

if your that bothered about marker light being out,then who would have you had risk assess you to be competent to climb up a ladder with a screwdriver…3 point contact,safety harness,hard hat,all the rest of the ppe gear, and all that pish… .

[reef]

dieseldog999:
ladder with a screwdriver…3 point contact,safety harness,hard hat,all the rest of the ppe gear, and all that pish… .

Bugger that! a rickety pallet with a very sharp, very pointy hunting knife.

[evil8beezle]

billythewhizz:
Its still not been fixed and was out on the road again today. Not driven by me by the way.

And that’s what happens when you just ‘have a word’ about the fault at the end of your shift. It’s not in writing anywhere so hasn’t been logged, and as such to the management, ignorable! :The fault will then maybe get done when it has its service as that’s the next time it’s not scheduled with a run, and what manager wants a truck off the road when they can easily ignore the cause?

Yes this example is just a marker light, but isn’t in the best interests of all drivers to have a good robust system of getting things sorted, as next time it won’t be just the marker light. And before you know it you’re running with a few niggles, begging for a tug and having no defense?

Embrace corporate compliance and try to use it for good!

[billythewhizz]

So I rang D.V.S.A to see if I could clear up this “grey area” of a situation.

I got through to Technical and told them what should be the correct process.

After doing the check and noticing the defect I should have made a note in the defect book/sheet and then shown in to the Transport Manager to get it signed. I could then take the truck out and arrangements made to repair the defect.

I also asked what would happen if this what not repaired the same day and ended up having the same truck the next day. I was told that I could repeat the process with the defect book and keep doing so until defect was repaired.

However if I was stopped then it obviously does not look good for the company that such a simple fix and would likely get a caution.

I am happier now I understand the situation a bit more and am glad I stood up for myself and didnt just go along with what was being said to me.

So if in doubt about a defect - get it written down in the book and get it signed off.

[evil8beezle]

billythewhizz:
So I rang D.V.S.A to see if I could clear up this “grey area” of a situation.

I got through to Technical and told them what should be the correct process.

After doing the check and noticing the defect I should have made a note in the defect book/sheet and then shown in to the Transport Manager to get it signed. I could then take the truck out and arrangements made to repair the defect.

I also asked what would happen if this what not repaired the same day and ended up having the same truck the next day. I was told that I could repeat the process with the defect book and keep doing so until defect was repaired.

However if I was stopped then it obviously does not look good for the company that such a simple fix and would likely get a caution.

I am happier now I understand the situation a bit more and am glad I stood up for myself and didnt just go along with what was being said to me.

So if in doubt about a defect - get it written down in the book and get it signed off.

So pass the crap back up the chain, as it’s then the TM’s balls on the line!
I told you that at the start!

So has the marker light been fixed yet mate?

[billythewhizz]

Evil8Beezle:

billythewhizz:
So I rang D.V.S.A to see if I could clear up this “grey area” of a situation.

I got through to Technical and told them what should be the correct process.

After doing the check and noticing the defect I should have made a note in the defect book/sheet and then shown in to the Transport Manager to get it signed. I could then take the truck out and arrangements made to repair the defect.

I also asked what would happen if this what not repaired the same day and ended up having the same truck the next day. I was told that I could repeat the process with the defect book and keep doing so until defect was repaired.

However if I was stopped then it obviously does not look good for the company that such a simple fix and would likely get a caution.

I am happier now I understand the situation a bit more and am glad I stood up for myself and didnt just go along with what was being said to me.

So if in doubt about a defect - get it written down in the book and get it signed off.

So pass the crap back up the chain, as it’s then the TM’s balls on the line!
I told you that at the start!

So has the marker light been fixed yet mate?

I knew you were right, lol. Just wanted to have confirmation. Always look out for your comments as you seem to know about most things and you explain things much better than what I could ever write.

Not seen the truck about to be honest so not sure but doubt it.

[billythewhizz]

Evil8Beezle:
So pass the crap back up the chain, as it’s then the TM’s balls on the line!
I told you that at the start!

So has the marker light been fixed yet mate?

I went to work this morning and was offered the truck again. Was told it had been fixed but when I done my checks it was not working.

Went back into the office and told him it wasnt working and also what the dvsa said the other day.

So all they had to do was sign the defect book and I could be on my way. Not so easy.

Both transport managers refused. Even tho I told them what dvsa had said.

They came back and told me they had gone to the dealer/garage people who had said differently. That it was ok to drive.

The one transport manager asked me who “dvsa” were, lol.

He also asked me whether I had what the dvsa said to me in writing. (yeah right - it was a telephone conversation)

They should have gone to the dvsa themselves to find out.

Once again I was swapped with another driver.

All the other drivers there would not have a problem with going out in the truck. Even the other agency guy would jump in.

I believe in doing the right thing even though it may alienate me from everyone. I am not a follower.

[evil8beezle]

billythewhizz:
They came back and told me they had gone to the dealer/garage people who had said differently. That it was ok to drive.

This is the key line/point mate, as if they said that to me, I’d have said well sign it off and I’ll be on my way. IF you won’t sign it off then you obviously don’t believe what you’re telling me. You say it’s OK to drive which I don’t dispute boss, so why won’t you sign, as the only reason I can come up with is that you’re not sure. What is it boss?

Bollox to whether they think I’m a trouble maker or not, but what I won’t tolerate is bullcrap! And to be told it’s fine and then for them not to put that in writing is just them not preparing to put their money where their mouth is…

This a a corporate company that is ISO9001 accredited, yet when it suits them they don’t want to play by the rules of the game!
(They are breaching their commitment to this…)

So F em!

[billythewhizz]

Evil8Beezle:

billythewhizz:
They came back and told me they had gone to the dealer/garage people who had said differently. That it was ok to drive.

This is the key line/point mate, as if they said that to me, I’d have said well sign it off and I’ll be on my way. IF you won’t sign it off then you obviously don’t believe what you’re telling me. You say it’s OK to drive which I don’t dispute boss, so why won’t you sign, as the only reason I can come up with is that you’re not sure. What is it boss?

Bollox to whether they think I’m a trouble maker or not, but what I won’t tolerate is bullcrap! And to be told it’s fine and then for them not to put that in writing is just them not preparing to put their money where their mouth is…

This a a corporate company that is ISO9001 accredited, yet when it suits them they don’t want to play by the rules of the game!
(They are breaching their commitment to this…)

So F em!

Exactly. Well said Evil8.