Grumpy Dad:
Would your driver assessor still insist turning the engine off if it was in mid regeneration, diesel is cheaper to replace than engine parts
Under no circumstances must you ever turn the engine off or even dip the clutch to stop regeneration, doing so causes the DEF or Ad Blue as you call it to dry in the lines and crystalize, this in turn leads to eventual blocking and damage to the system. Always let the regen run it’s full course unless you want to do serious damage.
Pat Hasler:
Grumpy Dad:
Would your driver assessor still insist turning the engine off if it was in mid regeneration, diesel is cheaper to replace than engine partsUnder no circumstances must you ever turn the engine off or even dip the clutch to stop regeneration, doing so causes the DEF or Ad Blue as you call it to dry in the lines and crystalize, this in turn leads to eventual blocking and damage to the system. Always let the regen run it’s full course unless you want to do serious damage.
I let my engine idle at the beginning of the day and at the end of a continued drive anything over 150kms for 5 - 10 minutes it’s something I’ve always done and regeneration is always allowed to be completed.
But this is where some TM’s are kicking off with drivers letting the engine idle, some of them haven’t the foggiest about driving all they are interested in is bonus enhancing fuel returns, but as I keep saying oil and diesel are cheaper than metal
But this is where some TM’s are kicking off with drivers letting the engine idle, some of them haven’t the foggiest about driving all they are interested in is bonus enhancing fuel returns, but as I keep saying oil and diesel are cheaper than metal
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tesco want you to drive with the rev counter in the middle of the green band or the computer scores your points off every single shift.
drive everywhere at 40 mph in gear 7 instead of top,and theres almost a perfect score…drive at 40 in top gear,and you score less due to the digging in aspect as at 40 your rev counter needle is on the bottom of the band…theres no accounting for the computer dong the maths .
the computer showed a complete run in the middle of the green band whilst turning a blind eye to the fuel used and nobody ever clicked in the time i was unfortunate enough to have worked there.
We have so many problems with idiots stopping the process, I try so hard to get through to them, my truck is now 4 years old and I never get any problems except when I have been driving and had to stop due to exiting the highway or coming to a traffic jam and interrupting a mobile regen, the orange engine light comes on but I do not panic, I just carry on and later the light goes out because the regen has re-started and completed. I have seen others climb in the cab and it was doing a regen and the fools push the clutch in then ask me why the engine light came on ? We have guys putting trucks in the workshops due to their stupidity.
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.
Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
Radar19:
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-8 … l-vehicles
Looking at this it seems a heavy truck uses 0.6 gal per hour. Call it 3 litres an hour.
At about £1.50 a litre, £600 is 400 litres monthly.
100 litres a week means the truck is idling for 33hours a week…
Maybe someone has been spinning you a yarn? Unless you did idle for 33 hours??
Franglais:
Radar19:
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-8 … l-vehicles
Looking at this it seems a heavy truck uses 0.6 gal per hour. Call it 3 litres an hour.
At about £1.50 a litre, £600 is 400 litres monthly.
100 litres a week means the truck is idling for 33hours a week…
Maybe someone has been spinning you a yarn? Unless you did idle for 33 hours??
Hmm, I see ya point. I’ll have another look at it but was how it was explained to me.
Franglais:
Radar19:
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-8 … l-vehicles
Looking at this it seems a heavy truck uses 0.6 gal per hour. Call it 3 litres an hour.
At about £1.50 a litre, £600 is 400 litres monthly.
100 litres a week means the truck is idling for 33hours a week…
Maybe someone has been spinning you a yarn? Unless you did idle for 33 hours??
33 hours a month is only an hour and a bit a day roughly. 15 mins in morning, urban work, waiting in queues I can see that is possible. I do a 12 hour day, driving for about 8.5 hours, engine only goes off in my break due to loading and unloading.
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P Stoff:
Franglais:
Radar19:
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-8 … l-vehicles
Looking at this it seems a heavy truck uses 0.6 gal per hour. Call it 3 litres an hour.
At about £1.50 a litre, £600 is 400 litres monthly.
100 litres a week means the truck is idling for 33hours a week…
Maybe someone has been spinning you a yarn? Unless you did idle for 33 hours??33 hours a month is only an hour and a bit a day roughly. 15 mins in morning, urban work, waiting in queues I can see that is possible. I do a 12 hour day, driving for about 8.5 hours, engine only goes off in my break due to loading and unloading.
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In a five day week that`s over 6 hours every day…!
Franglais:
P Stoff:
Franglais:
Radar19:
My old Premium would rev high when starting in the cold months. Same with my Type R, when that starts up it sits at just over 2,000rpm for about 2 minutes before slowing down gradually. Heres something, we have a fuel chart at our place that logs your idling time over a set period then shows it in £££. According to that, in the space of 4 weeks my idling cost the company almost £600 in wasted diesel. Now, I don’t know what the system considers “idling” because it could quite easily class waiting in the queues for the docks as idling or sitting in stop-start traffic because the most I let it idle for is 10 minutes in the morning.Just goes to show just how much idling adds to already massive fuel bill.
energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-8 … l-vehicles
Looking at this it seems a heavy truck uses 0.6 gal per hour. Call it 3 litres an hour.
At about £1.50 a litre, £600 is 400 litres monthly.
100 litres a week means the truck is idling for 33hours a week…
Maybe someone has been spinning you a yarn? Unless you did idle for 33 hours??33 hours a month is only an hour and a bit a day roughly. 15 mins in morning, urban work, waiting in queues I can see that is possible. I do a 12 hour day, driving for about 8.5 hours, engine only goes off in my break due to loading and unloading.
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In a five day week that`s over 6 hours every day…!
My bad, I thought it was monthly I humbly withdraw.
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Apparently it can do more harm than good in modern engines. Did it for years on old Leylands, ERF’s and Sed Atki’s but not now. Everthing is changing and you should too.
This has split into the idling when warm to save fuel thing which is different. OP was talking about warming cold engine through at idle prior to use.
Do it if it makes you feel better but it’s not doing anything on most motors unless very cold and actually says to in the manual. It’s goes against most manufactuerers guidelines and is ineffectual. All you’re doing is warming the coolant, heating the engine unevenly, the oil will take an age to reach temp far beyond when the blowers are giving hot air. Drive away without caning it, and don’t park overnight fully freighted just prior to a 1 in ten hill. About the worse thing you can do is place the engine under load at low rpm which buries the thrust side of the piston crown against the bores (sinking the throttle at very low rpm). Not good with cold oil.
Idle cool down is different. With turbo chargers you should idle prior to shut down. Like any turbine allows spin down and thermal stabilising prior to killing oil supply (by turning off engine)
Extract from FM manual:-
“Warm the engine by driving at low engine speed rather than idling. Avoid bottom end torque and high engine speeds. After start let the clutch out to warm the gearbox.”
Pat Hasler:
When I am parked up at my house at this time of year, I walk across the road and start it up, turn the heating on and go back to my house for 15 minutes. If I am in my cab all night the engine will be running the whole time. We are way behind in the technology front in this country, I have never seen an engine block heater on any truck, so you don’t turn on the ignition and see a cylinder warming light, they have not invented that even though it has been standard in the UK since I can remember. If I can drop my trailer and park on my driveway I plug the engine into the house and keep the whole thing warm all night.
You lead a very sheltered life Pat. Both of my trucks have an engine pre heat when you turn on the ignition, one is a 2014 Volvo D13, the other has a reman 02 CAT in it. The CAT heats as necessary, the Volvo will do a proper pre heat if you push the ignition key in with the ignition on. The Volvo also has a Webasto block heater, sane as a night heater, but it heats the engine, not the cab. On the Peterbilt I have a Thermo King APU. Both trucks have both a block heater and oil pan heater that plugs into the mains too. I reckon that covers every engine pre heating method other than a hot water bottle lol.
As for Idling, I NEVER pull away until my coolant temp is up to 150deg F. Running temp is 190deg F in both trucks, I use 5W30 in the Volvo and 15W40 in the CAT. I’m pulling up to 63.5tons down the road and I’m not doing that with a cold engine NFW!
As for Volvo saying don’t idle, how come their engine brake will not work if the temp is under 150deg F? It works in their favour if you wear out the engine prematurely, after all, they’re the ones making the spare parts or selling replacement lorries! I know all about the hot/cold spots in an engine, but Idling is not about warming the engine, it’s about warming the oil. If a driver of mine started the lorry and pulled away without letting it get up to temperature first, he would be told the error of his ways in no uncertain terms.
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newmercman:
Pat Hasler:
When I am parked up at my house at this time of year, I walk across the road and start it up, turn the heating on and go back to my house for 15 minutes. If I am in my cab all night the engine will be running the whole time. We are way behind in the technology front in this country, I have never seen an engine block heater on any truck, so you don’t turn on the ignition and see a cylinder warming light, they have not invented that even though it has been standard in the UK since I can remember. If I can drop my trailer and park on my driveway I plug the engine into the house and keep the whole thing warm all night.You lead a very sheltered life Pat. Both of my trucks have an engine pre heat when you turn on the ignition, one is a 2014 Volvo D13, the other has a reman 02 CAT in it. The CAT heats as necessary, the Volvo will do a proper pre heat if you push the ignition key in with the ignition on. The Volvo also has a Webasto block heater, sane as a night heater, but it heats the engine, not the cab. On the Peterbilt I have a Thermo King APU. Both trucks have both a block heater and oil pan heater that plugs into the mains too. I reckon that covers every engine pre heating method other than a hot water bottle lol.
As for Idling, I NEVER pull away until my coolant temp is up to 150deg F. Running temp is 190deg F in both trucks, I use 5W30 in the Volvo and 15W40 in the CAT. I’m pulling up to 63.5tons down the road and I’m not doing that with a cold engine NFW!
As for Volvo saying don’t idle, how come their engine brake will not work if the temp is under 150deg F? It works in their favour if you wear out the engine prematurely, after all, they’re the ones making the spare parts or selling replacement lorries! I know all about the hot/cold spots in an engine, but Idling is not about warming the engine, it’s about warming the oil. If a driver of mine started the lorry and pulled away without letting it get up to temperature first, he would be told the error of his ways in no uncertain terms.
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Id think that would be because the engine brake places the engine under large load and under the high engine speed bracket which it says to avoid during warm up.
That’s exactly I was saying, it takes ages to warm oil at idle. People incorrectly presume hot air through the blower and coolant needle in range means engine up to temp.
Freight Dog:
newmercman:
Pat Hasler:
When I am parked up at my house at this time of year, I walk across the road and start it up, turn the heating on and go back to my house for 15 minutes. If I am in my cab all night the engine will be running the whole time. We are way behind in the technology front in this country, I have never seen an engine block heater on any truck, so you don’t turn on the ignition and see a cylinder warming light, they have not invented that even though it has been standard in the UK since I can remember. If I can drop my trailer and park on my driveway I plug the engine into the house and keep the whole thing warm all night.You lead a very sheltered life Pat. Both of my trucks have an engine pre heat when you turn on the ignition, one is a 2014 Volvo D13, the other has a reman 02 CAT in it. The CAT heats as necessary, the Volvo will do a proper pre heat if you push the ignition key in with the ignition on. The Volvo also has a Webasto block heater, sane as a night heater, but it heats the engine, not the cab. On the Peterbilt I have a Thermo King APU. Both trucks have both a block heater and oil pan heater that plugs into the mains too. I reckon that covers every engine pre heating method other than a hot water bottle lol.
As for Idling, I NEVER pull away until my coolant temp is up to 150deg F. Running temp is 190deg F in both trucks, I use 5W30 in the Volvo and 15W40 in the CAT. I’m pulling up to 63.5tons down the road and I’m not doing that with a cold engine NFW!
As for Volvo saying don’t idle, how come their engine brake will not work if the temp is under 150deg F? It works in their favour if you wear out the engine prematurely, after all, they’re the ones making the spare parts or selling replacement lorries! I know all about the hot/cold spots in an engine, but Idling is not about warming the engine, it’s about warming the oil. If a driver of mine started the lorry and pulled away without letting it get up to temperature first, he would be told the error of his ways in no uncertain terms.
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Id think that would be because the engine brake places the engine under large load and under the high engine speed bracket which it says to avoid during warm up.
That’s exactly I was saying, it takes ages to warm oil at idle. People incorrectly presume hot air through the blower and coolant needle in range means engine up to temp.
If you’ve ever tried to pour oil from a can at low temperatures, you’ll know exactly why you should let it warm up before you force it around an engine.
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I am in here with Newmercman, give it time to warm up.
The reason that manufacturers don’t want you to idle has more to do with fuel economy than being thoughtful with their engines.
There is so much pressure on low emissions and low fuel usage.
It’s ok to say “don’t use full throttle" when cold, but how are you going to this in today’s traffic?
Mostly you have to be full on in today’s rat race.
30 years ago I worked for a haulier in a little village, in the morning we warmed the engine up, than drove no faster than 10 mile p/h to the next village.
On certain mornings, his old man would be in the next village checking if we not went to fast to early.
If I would do that now, people would phone the police complaining that I was holding up the traffic.
Complete wasre of time with any engine, the only bit that warms up is the cylinder head. The only way to way to warm up whole engine and transmission is to put it under load.
If you really buy a lorry and consider to keep it for a million+ miles, have a block heater installed then. I linked a video earlier that explains why idling is BAD for your trucks engine but if everyone was educated, there would be no truckdrivers 
newmercman:
Freight Dog:
newmercman:
Pat Hasler:
When I am parked up at my house at this time of year, I walk across the road and start it up, turn the heating on and go back to my house for 15 minutes. If I am in my cab all night the engine will be running the whole time. We are way behind in the technology front in this country, I have never seen an engine block heater on any truck, so you don’t turn on the ignition and see a cylinder warming light, they have not invented that even though it has been standard in the UK since I can remember. If I can drop my trailer and park on my driveway I plug the engine into the house and keep the whole thing warm all night.You lead a very sheltered life Pat. Both of my trucks have an engine pre heat when you turn on the ignition, one is a 2014 Volvo D13, the other has a reman 02 CAT in it. The CAT heats as necessary, the Volvo will do a proper pre heat if you push the ignition key in with the ignition on. The Volvo also has a Webasto block heater, sane as a night heater, but it heats the engine, not the cab. On the Peterbilt I have a Thermo King APU. Both trucks have both a block heater and oil pan heater that plugs into the mains too. I reckon that covers every engine pre heating method other than a hot water bottle lol.
As for Idling, I NEVER pull away until my coolant temp is up to 150deg F. Running temp is 190deg F in both trucks, I use 5W30 in the Volvo and 15W40 in the CAT. I’m pulling up to 63.5tons down the road and I’m not doing that with a cold engine NFW!
As for Volvo saying don’t idle, how come their engine brake will not work if the temp is under 150deg F? It works in their favour if you wear out the engine prematurely, after all, they’re the ones making the spare parts or selling replacement lorries! I know all about the hot/cold spots in an engine, but Idling is not about warming the engine, it’s about warming the oil. If a driver of mine started the lorry and pulled away without letting it get up to temperature first, he would be told the error of his ways in no uncertain terms.
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Id think that would be because the engine brake places the engine under large load and under the high engine speed bracket which it says to avoid during warm up.
That’s exactly I was saying, it takes ages to warm oil at idle. People incorrectly presume hot air through the blower and coolant needle in range means engine up to temp.
If you’ve ever tried to pour oil from a can at low temperatures, you’ll know exactly why you should let it warm up before you force it around an engine.
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That’s my point. Idling is an ineffective way to warm an engine. No one is saying don’t warm, it’s how you warm. Idle or per manufacturer procedures.
By idling you’re not getting away with warming the oil prior to it being forced around. The oil pump will still send the oil through to crank/ cylinder nozzles etc. When you idle a cold engine you are still ‘forcing’ cold oil around the engine in all the same places. For longer in fact as warming the oil by idle power takes a long time. It’s not about warm oil. The engine heats in a non uniform manner at idle power with a high thermal gradient between some components. Combustion is also very inefficient at cold idle which can also increase the possibility of un combusted fuel despositing against the bores. This can lead to “wetting” the lubricant sump which further increases wear as the lubricant is degraded by fuel desposits.
I can see what you’re saying re your units pulling at 64 tonnes. That would require a lot of low end engine load at cold start which isn’t good. What’s it say in the manual out of interest?
milodon:
Here’s a good insight into why you should idle as little as possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvfMal5fReAAlso personal experience with my own Scania for 600 thousand kms - kept idling to an absolute minimum and thanks to that I never had to fill up with oil inbetween the 60tkm oil change intervals. Compared with other trucks on the same work that were using 10-20litres between oilchanges.
I was taught as an apprentice that excessive idling lead to glazing of the liners (exactly as the guy in video explains).
Every year we used to get council gritters in where we were continually replacing the liners. They were left idling hours at a time in a yard on standby. It was regular income for us at the time 
