I’ve seen a few videos on YouTube of the tractor pullers running big block V8s with Nitrous, often two or more engines hooked together, they have a tendency to explode, to the point that they sometimes launch themselves into the air. There was a drag bike one that I saw that blew a pushrod or something straight out of the top of the block and came very close to making the rider’s eyes water for the rest of his life.
As an aside, I stumbled across a tractor pull in the middle of nowhere Illinois a few years ago, it was a fantastic night, the sound of those tractors and the smell will live with me forever.
Bking:
A Question?
The atmosphere is made up of 78% nitrogen which according to the “great and the good” is an inert gas.
So every time your engine draws breath 78% of its swept volume is nitrogen.
So 22% is “volatile” gas eg Oxygen to combine with the fuel (diesel or petrol) to provide power.
So why do dragsters etc introduce more nitrogen in the form of NOx to produce more power?
Why not just introduce more oxygen?
According to theory nitrogen acts as a “buffer” wtf is a buffer?
And when a heavy diesel produces NOx why does its power not increase?
Apparently you have to have a cat to get rid of it because its a gas that causes “acid rain”
Any answers?
Chemistry ain’t my strong point. And I can’t get the correct notation on this phone, but we’ll have a go.
Where does it say NOx is being used in dragsters? Dragsters use nitromethane (Top Fuel) and they talk about NOX or nitro but that isn’t NOx.
Couple of points.
Nitrogen is not inert.
It occurs in
Nitric Acid HN(O3)
Ammonia N(H3)
As CF has said Nitromethane carries oxygen.
C(H3)N(O2)
The pollutant exhaust gases are oxides of Nitrogen.
Oxygen combined with Nitrogen, maybe two or three Oxygen atoms to each of Nitrogen. Because it can be either a lower case 2 or 3 suffix a lower case x is used, as is often the convention with unknowns.
Is there a confusion here between sloppy naming by drag fans: NOX and chemistry notation: NOx ?
I’m open to correction on my ‘O’-level Chemistry.
Edit. Agree with the question WTF is a buffer? Any link to original article?
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There is a useful article on Wikipedia which explains that Nitrous Oxide injection increases the percentage of Oxygen available to burn fuel from the 22% in air to 36%. It can be stored as a liquid and turns to gas as injected into the inlet (which also has a cooling effect so the density of the charge increases, also increasing power. This is used in dragsters, was used for extra take-off power in some WW2 planes and some road cars have been fitted with Nitrous injection systems (probably not road-legal here).
Pure Oxygen injection, by the way, would raise temperatures too high and lead to detonation instead of controllable combustion.
Buckstones:
There is a useful article on Wikipedia which explains that Nitrous Oxide injection increases the percentage of Oxygen available to burn fuel from the 22% in air to 36%. It can be stored as a liquid and turns to gas as injected into the inlet (which also has a cooling effect so the density of the charge increases, also increasing power. This is used in dragsters, was used for extra take-off power in some WW2 planes and some road cars have been fitted with Nitrous injection systems (probably not road-legal here).
Pure Oxygen injection, by the way, would raise temperatures too high and lead to detonation instead of controllable combustion.
Buckstones:
There is a useful article on Wikipedia which explains that Nitrous Oxide injection increases the percentage of Oxygen available to burn fuel from the 22% in air to 36%. It can be stored as a liquid and turns to gas as injected into the inlet (which also has a cooling effect so the density of the charge increases, also increasing power. This is used in dragsters, was used for extra take-off power in some WW2 planes and some road cars have been fitted with Nitrous injection systems (probably not road-legal here).
Pure Oxygen injection, by the way, would raise temperatures too high and lead to detonation instead of controllable combustion.
Thanks.
My reading sorted.
Blimey I’d never given any thought to the idea that laughing gas used with petrol for fuel was the same type of compound as the one contained in exhaust gas until I saw that.It’s enough to confuse anyone.
Buckstones:
There is a useful article on Wikipedia which explains that Nitrous Oxide injection increases the percentage of Oxygen available to burn fuel from the 22% in air to 36%. It can be stored as a liquid and turns to gas as injected into the inlet (which also has a cooling effect so the density of the charge increases, also increasing power. This is used in dragsters, was used for extra take-off power in some WW2 planes and some road cars have been fitted with Nitrous injection systems (probably not road-legal here).
Pure Oxygen injection, by the way, would raise temperatures too high and lead to detonation instead of controllable combustion.
Thanks.
My reading sorted.
Blimey I’d never given any thought to the idea that laughing gas used with petrol for fuel was the same type of compound as the one contained in exhaust gas until I saw that.It’s enough to confuse anyone.
Nitrous Oxide is N2O. The exhaust gases that are blamed for acid rain, smog and breathing problems are described as ‘NOX’, a mixture of Nitric oxide, NO and Nitrogen Dioxide NO2. These react with water to form Nitric acid, whereas Nitrous Oxide is what paramedics give you mixed with air for pain relief, so obviously not that harmful.
Buckstones:
Nitrous Oxide is N2O. The exhaust gases that are blamed for acid rain, smog and breathing problems are described as ‘NOX’, a mixture of Nitric oxide, NO and Nitrogen Dioxide NO2. These react with water to form Nitric acid, whereas Nitrous Oxide is what paramedics give you mixed with air for pain relief, so obviously not that harmful.
In which case Biking has possibly confused the two different compounds in the form of NO2 and N20 ?.Easy mistake to understand.
So why introduce a gas N2O where over half its molecular weight is made up of nitrogen that does not burn.
Why not CO2 or even NO2? The nitrogen being introduced must replace some of the oxygen because you have a finite volume that the gas occupies.
A gas with twice the oxygen content would make more sense.
And I meant by saying Nitrogen is inert that it does not combine with other elements I meant it is non flammable.
Most nitrogen compounds are formed by ionisation of the air by lightning.
Maybe the gasses with a full oxygen molecule requires a much higher catalytic potential to split the molecule but can find any information on the Ev levels required to split them.
Bking:
So why introduce a gas N2O where over half its molecular weight is made up of nitrogen that does not burn.
Why not CO2 or even NO2? The nitrogen being introduced must replace some of the oxygen because you have a finite volume that the gas occupies.
A gas with twice the oxygen content would make more sense.
And I meant by saying Nitrogen is inert that it does not combine with other elements I meant it is non flammable.
Most nitrogen compounds are formed by ionisation of the air by lightning.
Maybe the gasses with a full oxygen molecule requires a much higher catalytic potential to split the molecule but can find any information on the Ev levels required to split them.
CO2 is used to extinguish fires, it’s produced within the engine when fuel burns anyway so pointless feeding more in, it will just stop fuel burning.
NO2 is a nasty poisonous and corrosive brown gas, it is the stuff that you see above the liquid in bottles of concentrated Nitric acid.
It WILL combine with fuels to burn but the combustion can be explosive instead of a controlled steady burn, just as pure oxygen would not give stable burning.
Many years since I studied chemistry and worked in laboratories but the science of boosting engines with Nitrous Oxide is still the same as far as I know.
Bking:
So why introduce a gas N2O where over half its molecular weight is made up of nitrogen that does not burn.
Why not CO2 or even NO2? The nitrogen being introduced must replace some of the oxygen because you have a finite volume that the gas occupies.
A gas with twice the oxygen content would make more sense.
And I meant by saying Nitrogen is inert that it does not combine with other elements I meant it is non flammable.
Most nitrogen compounds are formed by ionisation of the air by lightning.
Maybe the gasses with a full oxygen molecule requires a much higher catalytic potential to split the molecule but can find any information on the Ev levels required to split them.
There are loads of different permutations and properties of different stuff like oxygen and nitrogen etc.IE you can put a fire out with water but split and mix the same two ingredients in the form of Hydrogen and Oxygen you’ve got an explosive rocket fuel.While there’s also a difference between a fuel v an oxidiser.In this case it’s probably just that N2O is a better oxidiser than NO2 to the point where NO2 is just a useless irritating compound.
While putting N20 with petrol is a totally different thing.In it being a powerful oxidiser which is ‘added’ to the same fuel air charge,not replacing it at all, thereby making the same charge in the cylinder just burn much faster ( bigger bang ).
Let alone taking the nitrogen question even further in the form of nitrogen being an inert gas v nitro glycerene or for that matter nitromethane.Similar name connected to similar stuff in the form of nitrogen but all very different depending on other variables and what it’s mixed with and/or how it’s arranged chemically varying from inert gas to useless exhaust emission to an explosive oxidiser.
IE very nasty stuff and the devils work which is just as likely to blow up engines as make them go faster and don’t know why the racing community just didn’t ban it all.When it’s supposed to just be a test of brains as to who can get the most out of good old fashioned air and petrol.
Adding nitrous to an unmodified engine is a grenade waiting to go off, the compression ratio must increase to the point of warping the head.
I had a Sierra Cosworth with a bigger and better turbo, flat as a witches ■■■ until 3000rpm and then it was like being fired from a cannon. Anyway, it needed new pistons, a copper O ringed head gasket, group a head bolts, different injectors and a bigger intercooler to give it any kind of reliability. An expensive way to do it, done by the previous owner thankfully, but it was a lot of fun unless it was raining, then it was mostly sideways.
Bking:
So why introduce a gas N2O where over half its molecular weight is made up of nitrogen that does not burn.
Why not CO2 or even NO2? The nitrogen being introduced must replace some of the oxygen because you have a finite volume that the gas occupies.
A gas with twice the oxygen content would make more sense.
And I meant by saying Nitrogen is inert that it does not combine with other elements I meant it is non flammable.
Most nitrogen compounds are formed by ionisation of the air by lightning.
Maybe the gasses with a full oxygen molecule requires a much higher catalytic potential to split the molecule but can find any information on the Ev levels required to split them.
CO2 is used to extinguish fires, it’s produced within the engine when fuel burns anyway so pointless feeding more in, it will just stop fuel burning.
NO2 is a nasty poisonous and corrosive brown gas, it is the stuff that you see above the liquid in bottles of concentrated Nitric acid.
It WILL combine with fuels to burn but the combustion can be explosive instead of a controlled steady burn, just as pure oxygen would not give stable burning.
Just remembered to post a warning about one case where CO2 will make a fire worse: some racing car wheels were made of Magnesium, if CO2 is sprayed onto burning magnesium the magnesium splits it, using the Oxygen to burn leaving particles of black Carbon. It is the same type of reaction as the Thermite reaction where Aluminium uses the Oxygen in Iron Oxide to form molten Iron to weld things like railway line rails.
Many years since I studied chemistry and worked in laboratories but the science of boosting engines with Nitrous Oxide is still the same as far as I know.
