Don’t trust banks, was my grandfather’s constant advice, and I must admit that over my years in business I could never give better advice.
My grandfather’s reason was that, in his opinion, they had laid him in to the Inland Revenue, that had led to a tax investigation in the 39’s where he had been left with lots of money to pay.
In my opinion they are a backward cartel that looks after themselves and care nothing for their customers. Part of the recession has been caused by their dishonest time they take in clearing cheques. This, in itself deprives small businesses of working capital, slowing down the work cogs that drive progress and profit.
During our last year of trading we found out that at the end of one week we were $14,000 short of our payroll. Someone was late in paying us, and although tha bank we used HSBC had plenty of security they refused to loan the money for one week. I had to tell dad who immediately agreed to transfer the money from his personal account, into the business account. He rang up the bank manager and instructed them to do the transfer. Trying to be clever he said it would take three days, even though both accounts were with the same bank. Informing him that he would immediately change bankers he reluctantly did an immediate transfer.
Later that afternoon we had a meeting with Bob Stephenson and our shop stewards over a dispute they had with me. It was easily settled but out of stupidity they decided to take one day’s strike action on the Saturday (The following morning) returning to normal working on the Sunday (double time).
Little did they realise the worries we had had a couple of hours earlier to be able to pay the wages.
I will tell about this ‘days strike’ later, but the story does illustrate how I think the openness that exists to a greater extent between employers and employees has improved industrial relations. I think the shock that employees have experienced in recent years has made them have a more realistic approach to their work.
On the other hand I’m sure that banks have never learnt. They do all they can to ruin small businesses, and make sure they get blood as security. They are keen to gamble money with foreign countries where as with British businesses they like nothing better than give a good kick when you’re down, never take any risks and do nothing to help UK.
Have to agree with you about the banks Carl, Also estate agents who greatly inflated house prices over the years now out of reach of most young people who can’t borrow the money for them.
Talking about RHA and BAR brought to mind two other organisations we joined in the 50’s
The Motor Agents Association, which was I believe for garages supplying cars
The Motor Traders Association for garages doing car repairs.
Although my grandfather dabbled in buying and selling cars it was more of a hobby and certainly not professional.
Car repairs was again something we did, but very little as our garage staff were employed 95% of the time repairing our vehicles.
We did however buy a brake detector, a device which was put into the car and the car was driven to about 30mph and then stopped with its brakes. The device measured the car’s breaking efficiency. This is how brakes were tested on MOT tests before the rolling road. As car testing was being introduced there was a discussion between dad and grandfather of setting up as MOT station, but nothing came of it.
Dad used to attend meetings with some quite large garage owners and must have felt a real fraud, because he had no interests at all in that direction.
The reason for membership was that my grandfather had found out he could get better discount on vehicle parts if we claimed we were a working garage.
As our fleet of vehicles expanded we could get fleet discount which was at a much better rate so membership came to an end.
woodstock:
Have to agree with you about the banks Carl, Also estate agents who greatly inflated house prices over the years now out of reach of most young people who can’t borrow the money for them.
Hi Woodstock,
I think the problem with the banks was due to the total lack of competition. I always hoped an Amirican bank or banks would open up and kick our banks into this century. Maybe they might do so one day, however I don’t blame estate agents for the housing boom. I blame Gordon Brown, the then Chancellor of the Exchecker who let it happen, infact encouraged it as a way of raising extra taxes.
Best wishes
Carl
Recently Bubbleman added on Scrapbook memories a selection of photos with the permission of Reiver, of Milk wagons featuring mainly the Ford Thames 4D.
Bubbleman told of how he used to ride on the battery box in the middle of the driver’s seat and the passenger seat, and also of the starting handle in the cab.
It brought back so many memories to me. I was about 8 in 1956 when dad bought our Thames 4D.it was our first diesel and the reg no was TPT 918. The normal control 5 tonner was fitted with a 1500 cu ft luton van body. As Ford cut costs to an absolute minimum when producing the 4D, even with the relatively large body, the unladen weight was below the limit which meant it had a maximum speed limit of 30 MPH against the 20 mph our petrol Bedford SB’ with their 1700 cu ft bodies.
Again being diesel the 4D achieved a remarkable 26 mpg, against the petrol SBs which in the pre motorway years achieved 12 to 13 mpg. No wonder dad, along with many others including Haward and Robertson at Darlington, Fred Johnson at Durham and T T Liddle at Stanley, had been attracted to the Thames. In theory it should have been a money spinner but unfortunately had so many reliability problems, breaking down nearly every week it was a disaster. The other complaint was that the diesel 4 cylinder engine gave off no heat (No one had thought of cab heaters in 1956) and dad used to takea blanket with him to cover his legs to try to keep warm in winter.
However as it was diesel and noisy to an eight year old it held fascination. Like Bubbleman I usually had to sit on the battery box, and no one can imagine the vibration suffered on this wooden unsprung box. Also Bubbleman’s recollection of the starter handle brought back memories.
Originally the 4D had been fitted with a starter button, and I don’t know what had gone wrong, if this had been about 4 years ago I could have asked dad and he would have told me, but I suspect it would be something as simple as it didn’t work and dad would probably have had to crank it on the day I went with him to H Young and Son, the Ford Main Agent that was based in the centre of Chester Le Street and I remember them fitting a handle on the side of the rear of the engine that passed through the bulkhead into the cab. This had been fitted under recall under the guarantee and was something else to fascinate me, a large handle on the side of the engine that had to be pulled to start the van.
From new dad suffered head gasket trouble, about every thousand mile, and in one occasion less than 5 mile. He had been fitting the Ford head gasket, until he was advised by Associated Engineering rep to fit one of their gaskets. Dad was told that to save costs Ford had cut everywhere, taking everything down to the absolute minimum specification. Dad got a head gasket from Associated engineering and was so pleased to find it solved the head gasket problem. With the simple 4D engine and practice he said he had become so accomplished that he could change the gasket in less than an hour.
So, apart from the odd thing dropping off, as the 4 cylinder engine vibration was very excessive, the conrod went through the side of the engine, and Young’s took it in under guarantee and fitted a new ‘modified’ engine. ‘That should cure your head gasket problems’ the workshop foreman told dad. About a week and half later the head gasket went again and had to be replaced by a better made Associated Engineering gasket.
Then tragedy struck again, going south just past Catterick it turned over onto its side with the wind pushing it through a telegraph pole at the side of the road. The body was virtually destroyed. It was driven back to Sherwood and Wynn where Mr Noble agreed with the insurers to replace the body but not the painting and signwriting turning it out in grey primer.
Why oh why dad did what he did then never seemed to make sense. H Young and Son had a body shop in Sunderland at their largest Ford dealership They say history repeats itself but only eight or nine years earlier dad had used them to build the bodywork onto his new 1948 Bedford OB reg no JUP which had almost fell to bits which resulted in an early sale and replacement, dad gave them the job.
It was decided the reason the van had turned over was that to achieve the 1500 cu ft original body it was too high and the luton, which was immense should be sloped… The result was a poorly built 1250 cu ft luton van. The luton which could before carry a three piece suite as well as a double bed was now useless as was such a small van at 1250 cu foot. Where before he could get away using it with the old petrol SB’s it now was far too small, and was sold after about two years.
Over the years 1919 to 1986 we always seemed to have at least one Ford and one Morris Commercial (BMC , Leyland Redline) and both these makes were always trouble, whereas Chevs or Bedfords always except from the odd exception always provided goo service.
They say once bitten twice shy, why did we do it? All three of us, my grandfather, father and me all were responsible.
I remember asking dad just before he died Why?
It was just one of those things.
Carrying on from the post about three ago when I was complaining about banks you will recall me telling of the meeting where our drivers decided to go on the one day strike on a Saturday morning.
Probably Victor will know the time (1984-85) when the tanker drivers were going slow and diesel deliveries were quite difficult to get.
We had 30 vans to load at Darlington at a warehouse Thorn EMI had there. Myself together with all management and maintenance staff that had HGV class 3 licences, together with a non HGV driver who was ferrying us backwards and forwards drove the vans to Darlington and then back to Spennymoor after they were loaded.
On the day we had pickets on the gates and the police were present as there were rumours of possible trouble.
The first victim of harassment was one of our female office staff who turned up to work on the Saturday morning.(The girls in the office took it in turns so that each Saturday morning 8-30 to 12-30 one was present to deal with switchboard and any other essential work). She came into work crying, so I was told, after being shouted at and booed.
The next victim was a tanker driver bringing a load of diesel. They turned him away and off he went. Eventually the penny dropped that diesel deliveries were few and far between, and by turning him away could lead to drivers being laid off if we run out of fuel, so two pickets jumped into their cars to beg him to come back and make the delivery.
Really the morning was quite productive as it saved quite a bit of overtime because normally we would have paid the drivers to load their own vehicles, and this money was saved.
I think about five, three of which were real trouble makers turned up to picket and the remainder were disgusted at the strike, but as always they were the silent majority.
However all drivers who usually worked double time on the next day (Sunday) left as usual, and on Monday all was forgotten.
For my part I got the ‘pleasure’ in driving one of our new Mercedes 16 ton gross curtainsiders back from Darlington after it was\ loaded. All went well until I got to the Eden Arms Roundabout on A167 on my way back to Spennymoor. I had been experimenting with the splitter box and as I went up the bank into Chilton as I went to change down I couldn’t get a gear, and the Mercedes coasted to a slow halt. I looked behind and saw Ken Armstrong, out of our garage, coming up the bank in an old Bedford KF pantechnicon and waving him down we swapped and I carried on back with the Bedford, which was much more suitable to my driving techniques
The stories about cash and security takes me back to when I worked for the Northern Bus Co.
1965 - 1968. We were regularly rostered to take the cash to the bank using a single decker.
I think there were about six of us to “guard” the money, at that time I was about 8stone
soaking wet so I would have been a great deterrent to any would be “blagger”.
What really makes me laugh was the amount of people that tried to get on the
bus when we were parked ouside the bank, security was paramount!!!
Ps there wasn’t a bus stop anywhere near the bank so I wonder where they
thought we were going to take them. regads kevmac47.
kevmac47:
The stories about cash and security takes me back to when I worked for the Northern Bus Co.
1965 - 1968. We were regularly rostered to take the cash to the bank using a single decker.
I think there were about six of us to “guard” the money, at that time I was about 8stone
soaking wet so I would have been a great deterrent to any would be “blagger”.
What really makes me laugh was the amount of people that tried to get on the
bus when we were parked ouside the bank, security was paramount!!!
Ps there wasn’t a bus stop anywhere near the bank so I wonder where they
thought we were going to take them. regads kevmac47.
Hi keymac 47
They say there is nothing as queer as folk.
The passengers trying to get on must have been wanting to go on a mystery tour.
I’m sick of people telling me that things are just as safe as they were years ago. When you, like me think back and see today all the security companies like Securitor need to use.
Even today with inflation making prices something we never could imagine years ago people would be shot dead to steal the money we were carrying, yet I bet, you, like me never gave it a second thought. I for one never felt unsafe.
Best wishes
carl
Evening all, hello Carl, your jottings make very entertaining reading, thank you! Back in the late 70s, when I was working in France I was seconded to work from our Marseille Soucersalle, (Factory owned Dealership.) My introductory interview, 0700hrs with the P.D.G. majored on the parts of the city that I "would not frequent" after work! Of course I did,and had a great time! But Marseille was, and is a "frontier" city, and had very active criminal elements, with elements of criminal violence that we are only now experiencing in the UK. One of my fleet clients was Pierre Clements Locamion, a major rental company based in Lyon, whose Marseille operation ran a number of armoured security vans on behalf of major Banks, some based on the Saviem SG2 chassis. Not the most nimble of vehicles! One sunny day an enormous explosion destroyed one of these vehicles while parked in the yard close to the Garre Maritime. There was pandamonium!! But no apparant cause, except terrorism. A month later another was part destroyed by another explosion, security was at fever pitch. Someone had it in for Locammion! Of course they didnt. The explanation was clear one month later when another SG2 in transit, and full to the brim with Francs, had its rear doors blown open by a plastic explosive charge, neatly fixed by the pillion passenger of a passing motorcycle on the van. When it came to a halt, it was swiftly emptied of its contents by a car of “gun toting gangsters”, and that was the last seen of the Francs. Thankfully no one was killed, and we benefited by the supply of three new chassis, “it`s an ill wind”, but for some people the acquisition of money by any means has no boundries.Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Evening all, hello Carl, your jottings make very entertaining reading, thank you! Back in the late 70s, when I was working in France I was seconded to work from our Marseille Soucersalle, (Factory owned Dealership.) My introductory interview, 0700hrs with the P.D.G. majored on the parts of the city that I "would not frequent" after work! Of course I did,and had a great time! But Marseille was, and is a "frontier" city, and had very active criminal elements, with elements of criminal violence that we are only now experiencing in the UK. One of my fleet clients was Pierre Clements Locamion, a major rental company based in Lyon, whose Marseille operation ran a number of armoured security vans on behalf of major Banks, some based on the Saviem SG2 chassis. Not the most nimble of vehicles! One sunny day an enormous explosion destroyed one of these vehicles while parked in the yard close to the Garre Maritime. There was pandamonium!! But no apparant cause, except terrorism. A month later another was part destroyed by another explosion, security was at fever pitch. Someone had it in for Locammion! Of course they didnt. The explanation was clear one month later when another SG2 in transit, and full to the brim with Francs, had its rear doors blown open by a plastic explosive charge, neatly fixed by the pillion passenger of a passing motorcycle on the van. When it came to a halt, it was swiftly emptied of its contents by a car of “gun toting gangsters”, and that was the last seen of the Francs. Thankfully no one was killed, and we benefited by the supply of three new chassis, “it`s an ill wind”, but for some people the acquisition of money by any means has no boundries.Cheerio for now.
Hi Saviem
It seems to me the troubles seem to have spread from France to England.
We never ran any foreign vehicles in the seventies and even it was in the early eighties before we bought several Merceses, one DAF and a couple of 7.5 ton Magnius Deutz luton vans., so we never had a saviem, although I was taken to Normandy for a tour of the Saviem factory.
the only experience I had, was that I was a director of Darlington driver training and they ran two Saviem tractor units that had a system where a platform body could slide over thev fifth wheel, that enabled them to do class 1 training wityh trailers and class 3 when the platform body was fitted.I never can recall them being much trouble.
Best wishes
Carl
I passed coach Alan Madrell of Langley Park Durham near my home yesterday.
Alan worked for us many years as a class 3 driver, and I heard he had opened a driving school and as a PSV and HGV driving instructor.
I tried to find an email address so that I could tell him about this site and t see if he had any old photos or ask if he would submit any of his old memories.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find an Email address for him.
If anyone reading this knows Alan or has an email address, please tell him
Carl Williams:
I passed coach Alan Madrell of Langley Park Durham near my home yesterday.
Alan worked for us many years as a class 3 driver, and I heard he had opened a driving school and as a PSV and HGV driving instructor.
I tried to find an email address so that I could tell him about this site and t see if he had any old photos or ask if he would submit any of his old memories.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find an Email address for him.
If anyone reading this knows Alan or has an email address, please tell him
Hi Carl, try alan@alanmadrell.co.uk that’s his training school e-mail.
Mysterron:
Carl Williams:
I passed coach Alan Madrell of Langley Park Durham near my home yesterday.
Alan worked for us many years as a class 3 driver, and I heard he had opened a driving school and as a PSV and HGV driving instructor.
I tried to find an email address so that I could tell him about this site and t see if he had any old photos or ask if he would submit any of his old memories.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find an Email address for him.
If anyone reading this knows Alan or has an email address, please tell himHi Carl, try alan@alanmadrell.co.uk that’s his training school e-mail.
Hi Mysterron
thanks
i’ll drop him an email and suggest he joins this site. Who knows he might have some photos
Best wishes
Carl
Mysterron:
Carl Williams:
I passed coach Alan Madrell of Langley Park Durham near my home yesterday.
Alan worked for us many years as a class 3 driver, and I heard he had opened a driving school and as a PSV and HGV driving instructor.
I tried to find an email address so that I could tell him about this site and t see if he had any old photos or ask if he would submit any of his old memories.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find an Email address for him.
If anyone reading this knows Alan or has an email address, please tell himHi Carl, try alan@alanmadrell.co.uk that’s his training school e-mail.
Hi Mysterron
thanks
i’ll drop him an email and suggest he joins this site. Who knows he might have some photos
Best wishes
Carl
In 1946, straight after the war my grandfather and father built the new garage in Marmaduke Street Spennymoor.
The structure and plans were by Frazer’s of Hebburn, who I believe are still trading, they also supplies the steel windows. Frazer’s also roofed the building.
The bricklaying and all concrete work was done by a self-employed bricklayer from Spennymoor called Rigglesworth.
The electrical work was by Tregonning , a Spennymoor Electrical contractor.
The full width wooden doors 40 foot by 13 ft. 3in were by a Spennymoor joiner and coffin maker called Ross Hodgson.
With rationing in place building so soon after the war caused many problems for both my family and all involved and created stories mostly funny which I will recall.
I apologise to any family members of the above people, if I have spelt your names wrongly, but as this was all done over a year before I was born I only have facts that were told to me by my family, some years later, but I hope by putting this into print it gives posterity to the facts.
We sold the garage in the mid-seventies to Eddie Worthington, who had been one of our employees, after we had no further use for it.
I understand that it now belongs to John Willets, again another ex-employee.
From time to time, I drive past and there it stands without need of any significant repairs. To the credit of Frazer’s the structure is of the quality and complexity never to be seen in modern building, and was designed to last for ever.
Carl Williams:
In 1946, straight after the war my grandfather and father built the new garage in Marmaduke Street Spennymoor.
The structure and plans were by Frazer’s of Hebburn, who I believe are still trading, they also supplies the steel windows. Frazer’s also roofed the building.
The bricklaying and all concrete work was done by a self-employed bricklayer from Spennymoor called Rigglesworth.
The electrical work was by Tregonning , a Spennymoor Electrical contractor.
The full width wooden doors 40 foot by 13 ft. 3in were by a Spennymoor joiner and coffin maker called Ross Hodgson.
With rationing in place building so soon after the war caused many problems for both my family and all involved and created stories mostly funny which I will recall.
I apologise to any family members of the above people, if I have spelt your names wrongly, but as this was all done over a year before I was born I only have facts that were told to me by my family, some years later, but I hope by putting this into print it gives posterity to the facts.
We sold the garage in the mid-seventies to Eddie Worthington, who had been one of our employees, after we had no further use for it.
I understand that it now belongs to John Willets, again another ex-employee.
From time to time, I drive past and there it stands without need of any significant repairs. To the credit of Frazer’s the structure is of the quality and complexity never to be seen in modern building, and was designed to last for ever.
Carl, Frazers are still trading on the same site in Hebburn although a lot of the buildings are let to other firms.
regards kevmac47
kevmac47:
Carl Williams:
In 1946, straight after the war my grandfather and father built the new garage in Marmaduke Street Spennymoor.
The structure and plans were by Frazer’s of Hebburn, who I believe are still trading, they also supplies the steel windows. Frazer’s also roofed the building.
The bricklaying and all concrete work was done by a self-employed bricklayer from Spennymoor called Rigglesworth.
The electrical work was by Tregonning , a Spennymoor Electrical contractor.
The full width wooden doors 40 foot by 13 ft. 3in were by a Spennymoor joiner and coffin maker called Ross Hodgson.
With rationing in place building so soon after the war caused many problems for both my family and all involved and created stories mostly funny which I will recall.
I apologise to any family members of the above people, if I have spelt your names wrongly, but as this was all done over a year before I was born I only have facts that were told to me by my family, some years later, but I hope by putting this into print it gives posterity to the facts.
We sold the garage in the mid-seventies to Eddie Worthington, who had been one of our employees, after we had no further use for it.
I understand that it now belongs to John Willets, again another ex-employee.
From time to time, I drive past and there it stands without need of any significant repairs. To the credit of Frazer’s the structure is of the quality and complexity never to be seen in modern building, and was designed to last for ever.Carl, Frazers are still trading on the same site in Hebburn although a lot of the buildings are let to other firms.
regards kevmac47
Hi Keymac 47
Yes I was always told that Frazer’s were a very good company.
When in 1963 we extended the length of the garage by a third we again used them. Although the structure of the extension was only a fraction of the strength of the original. They told us that building standards had been reduced.
When we build our new depot in Green Lane industrial Estate in the early seventies we had again decided to use Frazer’s, but Sedgefield District Council and Durham County Council put restrictions on planning permission, something I will come onto later, making us use who they wanted.
Again the structure for buildings in Green Lane was further reduced and when I look at structures today they were virtually none existent. On the original building Frazer’s had used a structure that reminded me of Blackpool Tower.
Once again
Best wishes
carl
.The Marmaduke Street Garage was built in 1946 and there was still rationing.
Getting an allowance for the bricks was a real problem, and I suspect that they were helped as at the time we were carrying meat for the Ministry of Food, which was considered essential and would give priority.
However there were still problems that new bricks could only be allowed for outside walls. These were bought from Lumley Brickworks near Chester e Street. Dad collected all of them using from time to time al the old pre- war Bedford 2 tonners plus a 30cwt.in drop sided form.
They had to be hand loaded and off loaded and dad said all the vehicles when loaded had little if any brakes, so the trips from Chester Le Street were headaches.
The inside walls were then built with second hand bricks and dad said obviously they were very old from a building being demolished and were very hard. In fact even the strongest electric drill couldn’t make an impression in them when intact at Marmaduke Street. Anything that we had fixed to the wall had to be drilled into the concrete between the bricks. The bricks probably had been made about 100 years before or before and will have been made in times when things were made to last. However inside the building as it stands today, I suspect no one would have thought they had been used bricks, and in fact I’m sure they would look better than modern engineering bricks would.
The downside to second hand bricks was that everyone had to be cleaned of old mortar by hand.
The walls of the building were not cavity but the inside and outside bricks being bonded together. I suspect that whenever it is decided to demolish the building it will be a very difficult task, as the brick walls will be so strong.
Hello Carl.Caught up at last ,so just to bump the thread.Hope there is some more.Regards Mike.