Truck drivers unite together

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Stanley Knife:

Juddian:

newmercman:
Maybe Maggie wasn’t so great after all. Maybe if we’d all stood up for ourselves instead of bending over and getting shafted so we could buy our council houses on the cheap we wouldn’t be working zero hour contracts and relying on tax credits to pay the mortgage.

Indeed, one only had to be on the road in those days to see it happening with thine own eyes.

I grew up on a council estate in the middle of all this. There were over 20 pits within a 20 minutes drive, not even including Selby coalfield. Kellingley went last year leaving just the Prince of Wales at Pontefract, which is still labeled officially as ‘mothballed’. The houses and businesses built on the pit top may make it a tad difficult to bring back to life.

As soon as the strike was over the pit closure program was enforced, the miners took their redundancy and, in the main, either bought their council house or ■■■■■■ every last penny of it up against the wall. They are either revered as heroes for fighting the good fight, or despised for turning this area into the slum it is.

I’ve only ever been on one protest march, and that was in that london hell in the 80’s the huge march over the pit closures, have always hated the state attacking genuine working people, it was the deliberate and vindictive pit closure program that saw me vow never again to vote tory and i never will, they (though they aint alone) cannot be trusted.

After the closures i worked for Kwik Save, one of the shops i delivered to was Grimethorpe, Jesus that was as poignant a reminder of maggie thatchers hell on earth as any bugger could imagine.
Big strong blokes, ex miners, working at a bloody supermarket like that instead of doing the hard mens work they and their forebears had for generations, the lads there said it was either Kiwkies or the bloody Co-op and that was it, the sum total of work without travelling miles.

82

Stanley Knife:

Carryfast:
Those self interest groups chose the latter,rather than honour their responsibilities to backing those in a just dispute and the rest is history.

And this dispute was so just that the leaders of the closed shop national union couldn’t even carry their own members into a national strike via a national ballot.

The structure of the NUM was such that it was an amalgam of regional bodies. Therefore at every vote the votes could be added together to provide a national result but each region would conduct its own business. Yorkshire, Kent and Scotland would regularly vote one way and the rest the other. Even in a ballot held in April 84, South Wales, that supposed bastion of militant socialism that our forefathers would be proud of, voted not to strike. Only 10 of the 28 pits voted to come out, but within a week flying pickets had stopped production in them all. This didn’t produce an outpouring of faith in the cause the national leaders espoused but a level of resentment that their region’s vote hadn’t been respected. The whole cause was doomed to disaster before it even began.

Blimey I know my memory sometimes isn’t the best but the idea of the Welsh miners not being up for a fight wouldn’t be an example of that. :open_mouth:

youtube.com/watch?v=IMbNcTimUtw

2.36-3.17

While it would be fair to say that the UDM membership figure would be a more representative figure of those who opposed striking in support of their fellow workers which is the point.Bearing in mind as I said it was clear that the government was deliberately lying regards the level of the planned closures and supposedly selective job losses to divide the union and influence any potential national ballot.At which point any such ballot would have been unreliable and unviable and the NUM knew it.At which point the TUC needed to step in and support the NUM.On the basis that the government’s lies and obvious intent to divide the union,had made a national ballot and its result unviable/unreliable in this case.Instead of which the TUC chose to support the government’s position.In just the same way as its hypocrisy in supporting the Blairite project which supported and which still supports the double standard in which European workers enjoy the right to secondary action unlike their UK counterparts.Although even that right isn’t much use unless the rank and file show the solidarity needed to make use of that right whenever they need to.

83

talking of unions good to see the RMT yet again showing others how its done and supporting one of there members in his hour of need

liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv … d-12749900

just think if it had been one f you unloading at a customers yard and something had gone wrong out of your hands despite you complying with the sometimes derided h&s rules .your company had found you doing nothing wrong the customer has found you doing wrong but the police and cps decide to procecute could you afford to pay for a top barrister would your company ?
and that’s exactly why being in a union makes sense 99% you will never need them but theres always the 1% chance that they may just keep you out of jail suddenly that £8 a month subscription fee makes a whole lot of sense .a ■■■■ sight better than loosing your savings and home defending something like this

84

Maggie and Blair weren’t as stupid as people thought. They simultaneously sold all the social housing to the very people they’d shafted, winning support under the rule of turkeys voting for Christmas. And what’s the result 20/30 years on? A generation over the age of 50 that were made faux rich through over inflated properties, who moan about the way things were but are in reality set for life, and an eternity of anyone under 40 facing the prospect of never owning their own homes, having decent employment or any decent savings for their future. Thatcher and Blair weren’t killing you, they were killing your children :smiling_imp:

85

OVLOV JAY:
Maggie and Blair weren’t as stupid as people thought. They simultaneously sold all the social housing to the very people they’d shafted, winning support under the rule of turkeys voting for Christmas. And what’s the result 20/30 years on? A generation over the age of 50 that were made faux rich through over inflated properties, who moan about the way things were but are in reality set for life, and an eternity of anyone under 40 facing the prospect of never owning their own homes, having decent employment or any decent savings for their future. Thatcher and Blair weren’t killing you, they were killing your children :smiling_imp:

Good post Jay!

86

OVLOV JAY:
Maggie and Blair weren’t as stupid as people thought. They simultaneously sold all the social housing to the very people they’d shafted, winning support under the rule of turkeys voting for Christmas. And what’s the result 20/30 years on? A generation over the age of 50 that were made faux rich through over inflated properties, who moan about the way things were but are in reality set for life, and an eternity of anyone under 40 facing the prospect of never owning their own homes, having decent employment or any decent savings for their future. Thatcher and Blair weren’t killing you, they were killing your children :smiling_imp:

Blimey leave it out there are plenty of over 50’s who couldn’t afford to buy a house in the day or since.I’m one of them.

Like many others you’re confusing the time lines when it’s those born not later than the 1940’s/early 50’s that you’re referring to who are now well over the age of 60 if not in their 70’s.Also bearing in mind that Blair didn’t arrive on the scene until well after Thatcher had already long ago carried out her council house sell off policy to help her vote.With those like me born in the late 1950’s having left school just as the best years of Britain’s prosperity and industrial might was being brought to an end in the late 1970’s.Let alone many of the best years of our working lives spent in the early-mid 1980’s which trust me was even worse than anything happening now.The 1984 mine closure plan and resulting miners strike all being part of that economic destruction happening in the day.

IE,with a few exceptions,the late 1970’s/early 1980’s was no time to be a young worker starting out in life.While the people that you’re referring to were actually a small minority of established council tenants who,like the UDM lot being bribed with the lie of keeping their jobs,were bribed with the lie of a cheap state funded house sell off and a bit of personal profit for themselves at the tax payers’ expense.Many of those ‘tax payers’,like my parents,being mortgage payers who’d bought their own house with no state help on the basis of strong unions maintaining real terms wage levels to afford it and who the get rich quick Council sell off lot then called ‘militants’.

As for those supposed poor later generations.Ironically they are probably even more the turkeys voting for Christmas.In most of them believing in the Thatcherite indoctrination they’ve been fed with and supporting the idea of free markets and self interest and anti union policies,like the continuing outlawing of secondary action,that’s causing their problems. :bulb:

87

Its nice to see a topic where we can all genuinely debate without disagreement. my view is firstly we need a strong manufacturing base which would create a strong union front. as stated by previous posters our manufacturing base started to disappear in the '50’s and '60’s. we need this back and the only way is through government backing and nationalisation.to get his we would need to proviso’s that all of the UK public would need to buy into. Firstly they would have to work. Everyone beats on about wanting to earn fantastic wages but for a competitive industry people would have to genuinely graft and not expect to get paid for doing 2 fifths of f@@k all. that’s where the unions sold themselves out previously they forgot the fair days work for a fair days pay and wanted to milk the job. unfortunately the milk can only last so long if the farmer isn’t feeding and tending the cow. Secondly if these well paid jobs can be created to stop te influx of migrants the British need to get out and work, not just Monday to Friday 7 till 5 but be prepared to work proper flexible shift patterns with proper rates at week end etc. to get this country up nd running as a genuine manufacturing power again. Secondly we need to look at the benefit system and make long term work avoiders do something to make them qualify for benefits i.e. sweep roads help pensioners clear graffiti up etc. this may stop the idle life style that some people are accustomed to. there are families I know ( I’m sure others do too) where 3 generations have never worked and it seems like some people have no intention of never working. we have one estate where where we call 4 by 4 because some of the women have 4 children by 4 different fathers. the other caveat to this is that taxation would be higher and the public would have to accept that and that would mean getting rid of all these ltd. company loopholes and the rich pushing their money off shore. Would everyone buy into it given it wouldn’t be one sided.

88

An excellent idea in theory Old Timer but getting the entitled generations on board will be a job and a half, plus…

I was a buy British stalwart for years, sometime in the later 80’s, possibly 90’s realised i was the only bugger still doing so, my final moment came when i needed to buy a new microwave, went round the usual sheds and everything but everything was made in bloody chinese sweat shops, eventually i spotted a Belling, there it was bloody great union flag on the door designed in to the makers label, righto i’ll have that, er no i won’t, stamped on the back, yep you guessed it made in piggin china.
Con job, stick it up yer arse.

That, and when Rover launched that bloody awful City Car which was in fact a soddin Tata, i delivered the bloody things at the time and took great pleasure in asking in a loud voice in the showrooms ‘‘where do yer want this tata mate?’’, and they had the gall to fix a bloody Union Flag emblem to the bootlid, mind you that badge was the one of the few parts that didn’t fall off as we delivered the bloody things.
Con job stick it up yer arse.

Our leaders in government betrayed us, they sold our country and made themselves rich, wide boys made fortunes via monkey see monkey do similar buying lying and selling of our assets, the Rover debacle a shining example of greed leading to ruin, but don’t worry it’s only those pesky working class who paid with losses of jobs homes relationships due to money stresses etc etc, and when did the working class ever matter.

Hang on a mo, the working class, i know those chaps, very important the few weeks before an election, and salt of the earth when we need a few bodies to go fight wars for politicians traitors.

So suggesting that we, the genuine working class (confuse us with the shirking class at your peril), who have carried on grafting all hours God sent through thick and thin to provide for our families and ourselves, should be prepared to pay more tax so the greedy traitor class can rinse and repeat the same scenarios over the next 40 years to make their equally greedy children rich off a new generation of grafter’s backs, somehow i can’t see getting much support.

89

Carryfast:

OVLOV JAY:
Maggie and Blair weren’t as stupid as people thought. They simultaneously sold all the social housing to the very people they’d shafted, winning support under the rule of turkeys voting for Christmas. And what’s the result 20/30 years on? A generation over the age of 50 that were made faux rich through over inflated properties, who moan about the way things were but are in reality set for life, and an eternity of anyone under 40 facing the prospect of never owning their own homes, having decent employment or any decent savings for their future. Thatcher and Blair weren’t killing you, they were killing your children :smiling_imp:

Blimey leave it out there are plenty of over 50’s who couldn’t afford to buy a house in the day or since.I’m one of them.

Like many others you’re confusing the time lines when it’s those born not later than the 1940’s/early 50’s that you’re referring to who are now well over the age of 60 if not in their 70’s.Also bearing in mind that Blair didn’t arrive on the scene until well after Thatcher had already long ago carried out her council house sell off policy to help her vote.With those like me born in the late 1950’s having left school just as the best years of Britain’s prosperity and industrial might was being brought to an end in the late 1970’s.Let alone many of the best years of our working lives spent in the early-mid 1980’s which trust me was even worse than anything happening now.The 1984 mine closure plan and resulting miners strike all being part of that economic destruction happening in the day.

IE,with a few exceptions,the late 1970’s/early 1980’s was no time to be a young worker starting out in life.While the people that you’re referring to were actually a small minority of established council tenants who,like the UDM lot being bribed with the lie of keeping their jobs,were bribed with the lie of a cheap state funded house sell off and a bit of personal profit for themselves at the tax payers’ expense.Many of those ‘tax payers’,like my parents,being mortgage payers who’d bought their own house with no state help on the basis of strong unions maintaining real terms wage levels to afford it and who the get rich quick Council sell off lot then called ‘militants’.

As for those supposed poor later generations.Ironically they are probably even more the turkeys voting for Christmas.In most of them believing in the Thatcherite indoctrination they’ve been fed with and supporting the idea of free markets and self interest and anti union policies,like the continuing outlawing of secondary action,that’s causing their problems. :bulb:

Born late 50s? I thought you were a retired gent. Do you still drive then CF?

90

the old timer:
Its nice to see a topic where we can all genuinely debate without disagreement. my view is firstly we need a strong manufacturing base which would create a strong union front. as stated by previous posters our manufacturing base started to disappear in the '50’s and '60’s. we need this back and the only way is through government backing and nationalisation.to get his we would need to proviso’s that all of the UK public would need to buy into. Firstly they would have to work. Everyone beats on about wanting to earn fantastic wages but for a competitive industry people would have to genuinely graft and not expect to get paid for doing 2 fifths of [zb] all. that’s where the unions sold themselves out previously they forgot the fair days work for a fair days pay and wanted to milk the job. unfortunately the milk can only last so long if the farmer isn’t feeding and tending the cow. Secondly if these well paid jobs can be created to stop te influx of migrants the British need to get out and work, not just Monday to Friday 7 till 5 but be prepared to work proper flexible shift patterns with proper rates at week end etc. to get this country up nd running as a genuine manufacturing power again. Secondly we need to look at the benefit system and make long term work avoiders do something to make them qualify for benefits i.e. sweep roads help pensioners clear graffiti up etc. this may stop the idle life style that some people are accustomed to. there are families I know ( I’m sure others do too) where 3 generations have never worked and it seems like some people have no intention of never working. we have one estate where where we call 4 by 4 because some of the women have 4 children by 4 different fathers. the other caveat to this is that taxation would be higher and the public would have to accept that and that would mean getting rid of all these ltd. company loopholes and the rich pushing their money off shore. Would everyone buy into it given it wouldn’t be one sided.

Sounds just like the Thatcherite work ethic to me and yet more free markets ideology. :unamused:

Let’s get this right.You think that the 1970’s was a case of the unions asking for too much and not the employers and the government stitching up the workforce by using price led inflation to erode wages.Among other issues in them expecting less workers to do more work for the same if not less money and throwing the resulting surplus of redundant workers on the dole. :unamused:

While in your view the way to fix the problem is to plough public cash into domestic industry which is fine.But you also want to leave the door open to imports thereby defeating the object just as was the case with British Steel and British Leyland etc previously.While wanting Brit workers to work 10 hour shifts on a ‘flexible’ basis to compete.Which is more or less what we’ve got with zero hour contracts.While at the same time expecting people on unemployment benefit to do a council worker’s job for their pittance.When you’re supposedly all about a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay in which case surely you’d want to employ them on at least minimum wage.

When what’s actually needed is public investment in industry then import controls to justify and protect the investment.Together with a decent work pattern expected of a modern civilised developed economy such as 4 on 4 off 32 hours per week and 3 shifts of 8 hours if you want 24/7 operation.On that note if you’ve ever worked in a factory you’d know that a 40 hour week is soul destroying enough let alone 50 which you seem to be suggesting.

As for the women with 4 children by different fathers that’s probably got more to do with the lack of single available women and a breakdown in morals not the benefit system.While benefits dependency is all about de industrialisation and an over supplied labour market.Ironically in large part caused by importing cheap labour based on the excuse that the indigenous population isn’t having enough children.

91

James the cat:
Born late 50s? I thought you were a retired gent. Do you still drive then CF?

I was put out of the job early on health grounds.( Severe back issues ).

92

Carryfast:

James the cat:
Born late 50s? I thought you were a retired gent. Do you still drive then CF?

I was put out of the job early on health grounds.( Severe back issues ).

Is that another way of saying you get everybody’s back up !

93

OVLOV JAY:
Maggie and Blair weren’t as stupid as people thought. They simultaneously sold all the social housing to the very people they’d shafted, winning support under the rule of turkeys voting for Christmas. And what’s the result 20/30 years on? A generation over the age of 50 that were made faux rich through over inflated properties, who moan about the way things were but are in reality set for life, and an eternity of anyone under 40 facing the prospect of never owning their own homes, having decent employment or any decent savings for their future. Thatcher and Blair weren’t killing you, they were killing your children :smiling_imp:

Not only did the biitch start off the right to buy she more importantly prevented local councils reinvesting the profits into building new housing stock to replace what they had sold, and the legacies of which are still impacting the working classes today, yet there are still some who sing her praises