lolipop:
A wage is what your P60 says at the end of the year,if thats not enough to live on and you need “nightout subsistence” to make up any shortfall, then your either living above your means and need to tighten your belt in abit,or change your job for better pay.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what this says… If night out money is making your money up to a decent wage, your in a crap job… Eg £525 inc nights out Your being shafted. Should be £525+ nights out.
yorkshire terrier:
My brother in law works in engineering and is on travel and night away expenses etc,
Sometimes can bang his wage up by £200 plus a week…
But if there’s no traveling or work from other areas that include an overnight stay he don’t complain…
You can’t rely on expenses,
If the work isn’t there he don’t do it so if there isn’t the loads to go down the road then you don’t go,
Very true even if nights out are regular one could say virtually guaranteed, in reality they ain’t.
It’s rare but there has been the odd night when I’ve gone home in the week, the wife hates it says the last thing she needs is me poking around when she is relaxing.
My lot have just shoved the daily meal allowance onto the basic rate which helps as that was an expense but not part of the wage.
Noticed this the most with holiday pay which for doing bugger all wasn’t to bad.
Then there’s overtime which in our game is pretty much a given in most but not all cases.
So if you can live on your basic all’s good but if you rely on the extras perhaps a slight rethink is needed.
biggriffin:
lolipop:
A wage is what your P60 says at the end of the year,if thats not enough to live on and you need “nightout subsistence” to make up any shortfall, then your either living above your means and need to tighten your belt in abit,or change your job for better pay.^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what this says… If night ouut money is making your money up to a decent wage, your in a crap job… Eg £525 inc nights out Your being shafted. Should be £525+ nights out.
You’re right, of course, in principal, and in an ideal world a tramper would be paid £30.000+ AND night out money.
But tramping (true tramping, 4 or 5 nights every week because of the kind of work/operation the company undertakes) is more than just sleeping in the truck. It is an inherent part of the job, it is required from the driver week in week out, and as such the driver lives around those conditions. Including considering that £100 a week as part of your take home money.
Another issue. If they now have to go home and come to work every day, is that reflected in the hours worked? Or are they supposed to cram that extra commuting into a reduced rest most nights?
newmercman:
Go to a shop and buy something for 20quid, it doesn’t matter where that 20quid came from, hourly wages, night out money, a lottery win or a lucky find down the back of the sofa, you’ll still get 20quid’s worth of stuff.It may be termed as subsistence, but that’s only to give It tax free status, you get paid it for doing your job, which means it’s wages.
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I see your point NM, money is money.
However you get paid or a wage, for driving, tipping and loading, you get ‘‘Re.imbursed’’ for ‘‘Expenses’’, (both terms used loosely btw)
In many cases these ‘expenses’ are used by some employers to make a crap wage look good, and evidently many are taken in by this. 
Now if you are on a good wage before expenses, that is entirely different.
I think I’ve explained that right anyway. 
the nodding donkey:
You’re right, of course, in principal, and in an ideal world a tramper would be paid £30.000+ AND night out money.But tramping (true tramping, 4 or 5 nights every week because of the kind of work/operation the company undertakes) is more than just sleeping in the truck. It is an inherent part of the job, it is required from the driver week in week out, and as such the driver lives around those conditions. Including considering that £100 a week as part of your take home money.
You are right,but I’ll.start considering my n/out money as pay and take home money when I’m on 50quid for a night out instead of the paltry 22.50 I’m on now.
I like to eat properly while away and maybe have a beer, or even when I provide a lot of my own food to take with me, in both scenarios I have not got a lot left out of my ‘expenses’ to look upon them as extra pay.
Well, definitely not as much as MP’s expenses, and the way those lot look upon them anyway.
robroy:
newmercman:
Go to a shop and buy something for 20quid, it doesn’t matter where that 20quid came from, hourly wages, night out money, a lottery win or a lucky find down the back of the sofa, you’ll still get 20quid’s worth of stuff.It may be termed as subsistence, but that’s only to give It tax free status, you get paid it for doing your job, which means it’s wages.
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I see your point NM, money is money.
However you get paid or a wage, for driving, tipping and loading, you get ‘‘Re.imbursed’’ for ‘‘Expenses’’, (both terms used loosely btw)
In many cases these ‘expenses’ are used by some employers to make a crap wage look good, and evidently many are taken in by this.
Now if you are on a good wage before expenses, that is entirely different.
I think I’ve explained that right anyway.
I think the problem is that we (the drivers) do not negotiate our pay and conditions We apply for a job, and are told what the wages are. And let’s face it, 99% of people loo at what they get in the bank at the end of the week. And don’t really care about how that amount is achieved. If any of us would start demanding more wages, AND night out money, bosses would tell you to do one.
Robroy, Dipper Dave’s first post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject, I don’t care what you call it, money is money, the reason I work is to get as much money as my limited abilities allow me to, if I have to sleep in a lorry, so be it, the trade off is that I can spend more time in bed.
You could also say that commuting constitutes work, an hour, or two a day of chilling out time is lost while you travel to and from the yard, you do that for free, so if the night out lifestyle suits you, there’s more time available to relax and you pick up an extra 20 odd quid a night too. I call that a result.
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newmercman:
Robroy, Dipper Dave’s first post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject, I don’t care what you call it, money is money, the reason I work is to get as much money as my limited abilities allow me to, if I have to sleep in a lorry, so be it, the trade off is that I can spend more time in bed.You could also say that commuting constitutes work, an hour, or two a day of chilling out time is lost while you travel to and from the yard, you do that for free, so if the night out lifestyle suits you, there’s more time available to relax and you pick up an extra 20 odd quid a night too. I call that a result.
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Exactly. Many people overlook the impact that a daily commute has on a job where a 13 hour day is considered ‘normal’.
If it is a temporary thing it shouldn’t be the end of the world but I guess everyone’s financial and personal situation is different.
If you have major outgoings I guess you might have a shop for supplies at the weekend to keep as much night out money as possible to cover your commitments and as others have said they may have taken a job with a big commute due to it been weekly not daily and a hour or twos drive each day would be a killer and you may end up kipping in the lorry anyway.
Could be as simple as they only run one car so the Mrs does the work run once a week and might be not practical daily
kr79:
If it is a temporary thing it shouldn’t be the end of the world but I guess everyone’s financial and personal situation is different.
If you have major outgoings I guess you might have a shop for supplies at the weekend to keep as much night out money as possible to cover your commitments and as others have said they may have taken a job with a big commute due to it been weekly not daily and a hour or twos drive each day would be a killer and you may end up kipping in the lorry anyway.
Could be as simple as they only run one car so the Mrs does the work run once a week and might be not practical daily
Good point, I’ve had several colleagues over the years who’s partners dropped them of and picked them up.
The day lads can make the same or similar money as the trampers by running in on a Saturday as their rate is £2 p/h more. Sunday is even better for them, we have been offered first refusal on saturday or Sunday to make up the difference if we want it. I think this is more than fair. My problem with it is the fact that the other lads virtually live on the doorstep whereas I don’t, I have to get up earlier than normal as I now have a 40 min commute each way which I didn’t have except for once a week. Most of us are often home early on a Friday and when this happens we get to go home and are still paid the full shift. This is a two week temp problem not a permanent one, I aren’t moaning over it but just fed up with the times. There is the possibility of the odd night out but everyone is saying they don’t want just an odd night out as it isn’t worth the extra. Rare we are out the full 5 nights anyway, it is normally 4 nights away.
the nodding donkey:
robroy:
newmercman:
Go to a shop and buy something for 20quid, it doesn’t matter where that 20quid came from, hourly wages, night out money, a lottery win or a lucky find down the back of the sofa, you’ll still get 20quid’s worth of stuff.It may be termed as subsistence, but that’s only to give It tax free status, you get paid it for doing your job, which means it’s wages.
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I see your point NM, money is money.
However you get paid or a wage, for driving, tipping and loading, you get ‘‘Re.imbursed’’ for ‘‘Expenses’’, (both terms used loosely btw)
In many cases these ‘expenses’ are used by some employers to make a crap wage look good, and evidently many are taken in by this.
Now if you are on a good wage before expenses, that is entirely different.
I think I’ve explained that right anyway.I think the problem is that we (the drivers) do not negotiate our pay and conditions We apply for a job, and are told what the wages are. And let’s face it, 99% of people loo at what they get in the bank at the end of the week. And don’t really care about how that amount is achieved. If any of us would start demanding more wages, AND night out money, bosses would tell you to do one.
You’re right on both counts, I just get sick of some trampers telling me they are on ‘‘Good money’’ because they count the nights out, but then either ignore or kid themselves about the crap rate of pay they are on in reality.
Btw… For the record ND mate, I’m intrigued by what the personal attack was and why you think I instigated or deserved one for what I said. 
The personal attack wasn’t directed at you Robroy, it was a very mild one anyway, but names were mentioned and the recipient would have no doubt defended himself or retaliated and then the thread would be derailed. I’ve prevented that.
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UKtramp:
The day lads can make the same or similar money as the trampers by running in on a Saturday as their rate is £2 p/h more. Sunday is even better for them, we have been offered first refusal on saturday or Sunday to make up the difference if we want it. I think this is more than fair. My problem with it is the fact that the other lads virtually live on the doorstep whereas I don’t, I have to get up earlier than normal as I now have a 40 min commute each way which I didn’t have except for once a week. Most of us are often home early on a Friday and when this happens we get to go home and are still paid the full shift. This is a two week temp problem not a permanent one, I aren’t moaning over it but just fed up with the times. There is the possibility of the odd night out but everyone is saying they don’t want just an odd night out as it isn’t worth the extra. Rare we are out the full 5 nights anyway, it is normally 4 nights away.
I’m sure that you have had the answer about your extra commuting along the lines of ‘‘Nobody forced you to work here, you applied for it’’ and I am in a similar situation, I’m about a 25 mile round trip also.
I am also on a similar ‘premium rate’ for Sats and Suns, but I do not think it would be a good enough incentive in terms of amount above dtandard rate, for me to commute both days (not that I would either) if a similar situation to the one you refer to, happened to me.
newmercman:
The personal attack wasn’t directed at you Robroy, it was a very mild one anyway, but names were mentioned and the recipient would have no doubt defended himself or retaliated and then the thread would be derailed. I’ve prevented that.Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
Ok right, thanks for that.
You’re welcome, it’s what we’re here for, the smooth running of the forum I mean, not placating your insecurities lol
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if your normal weeks work is tramping,then no matter how you do the maths,then what you clear at the end of the week is your wages.
if you think its good money,then its good money irrespective of how it gets to your wallet.
i worked for a guy doing the dreaded english work as he struggled to get the irish guys to cover it.
i was runnning glasgow-ireland and back daily with morning grub on the boat over,and tea on the boat back hence i spent nothing and cleared every penny of my daily rate.
i told hm id be happy to do the work so long as he let me get on with it and i didnt lose out as id have to feed myself all week compared to living on the ferry so i asked him to bung me £100 and ended up getting £150 extra as i didnt give any greif and just got the job done… whatever you end up at the end of the week is your wages irrespective of how it gets paid.
a tramper should get minimum £100 compared to the day men to cover basic grub at least.
its the tramers option to tramp for suitable wages as lots couldnt stand commuting every day.
newmercman:
You’re welcome, it’s what we’re here for, the smooth running of the forum I mean, not placating your insecurities lolSent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
I’m not paranoid, I just KNOW that everybody is out to get me…fact.
When these guys go on two weeks annual leave,do they expect to get their subsistence money included in their average pay holiday money. 
After all they claim they are taking a “drop in wages” for two weeks and are “up in arms” for losing out by doing "locals"instead of tramping.
Conor:
Captain Caveman 76:
Well I can see their point. Regardless of what you call it, they’re £100 down on their wages, and I doubt they’ve had a 90 day consultation period to discuss the change in terms of their contract.What change of terms of contract? Their night out money is a subsistence allowance paid when they have nights out. They’re not having nights out so they’re not getting it.
If they’re contracted as trampers with the duties therein, being asked to do day work IS a change in their terms. Now I accept that this is only a short term change and any employee is expected to be flexible, but it is a change to the job role that these people signed up for.
As far as the money goes, regardless of what it’s called or why it’s paid, they’re going to be £100 short in their bank at the end of the week. It may be that on superstar agency money, someone might not notice that difference, but most people would.