Juddian:
Always amused me how former BNP and EDL members were banned outright from joining UKIP, and Farage has publicly taken the credit for destroying the BNP, presumably he means taking their votes, note he didn’t tell ex voters to sod off and take their votes with them
Most BNP/EDL members or voters weren’t far right in any way shape or form, they were in the vast majority genuine working class patriots with a full set each who you’d like to be standing beside you when what’s coming to this country kicks off, as it will because we have allowed, nay encouraged, violent fifth columns to organise and establish themselves, the inevitable reckoning will be horrible.
Legions of SJWs, anti fascists (irony by-pass each and every one), MeToo’s, LBGTSWPXYZ dancers etc and indoctrinated leftys aren’t going to be defending the weak or their neighbourhoods when the time comes.
Maybe Farage was a bit wary of allowing too many patriots, the independent minded sort who can’t be bought because money/power are of little interest to them, into UKIP, in case the party became too successful and got out of his personal control.
To be fair whatever the rights and wrongs of Farage’s actions it’s all history now, with Batten and specifically regarding the Robinson case Alan Craig,being the relevant reference point v the establishment not Farage. In which case what possible complaint could you have with their clear position on the matter?.
As for the day of reckoning scenario you’ve described,assuming the military follows its present course of being united in enthusiastically implementing the EU’s Kalergi plan and anti nation state agenda,as in the case of the Adebi example,with the Royal perogative and ultimate authority obviously also onside with it,we’d have absolutely no chance.More like interned under the resulting martial law at the point of a ‘Brit’ rifle with the encouragement and thanks of the EU and Saudi governments and their supporters here.
Juddian:
fifth columns to organise and establish themselves,
To be fair whatever the rights and wrongs of Farage’s actions it’s all history now, with Batten and specifically regarding the Robinson case Alan Craig,being the relevant reference point v the establishment not Farage. In which case what possible complaint could you have with their clear position on the matter?.
Juddian:
Always amused me how former BNP and EDL members were banned outright from joining UKIP, and Farage has publicly taken the credit for destroying the BNP, presumably he means taking their votes, note he didn’t tell ex voters to sod off and take their votes with them
Most BNP/EDL members or voters weren’t far right in any way shape or form, they were in the vast majority genuine working class patriots with a full set each who you’d like to be standing beside you when what’s coming to this country kicks off, as it will because we have allowed, nay encouraged, violent fifth columns to organise and establish themselves, the inevitable reckoning will be horrible.
Legions of SJWs, anti fascists (irony by-pass each and every one), MeToo’s, LBGTSWPXYZ dancers etc and indoctrinated leftys aren’t going to be defending the weak or their neighbourhoods when the time comes.
Maybe Farage was a bit wary of allowing too many patriots, the independent minded sort who can’t be bought because money/power are of little interest to them, into UKIP, in case the party became too successful and got out of his personal control.
EDL and BNP continue to split the Right vote though. The Conservative Party does too, of course!
… Seriously though, If someone like Boris Johnson ever got de-selected, then it might be the best thing that ever happened to UKIP, as he might cross the floor - and take the votes of the Tory Right (myself included) WITH him!
I reckon Boris getting booted, and coming back on a UKIP ticket in the ensuing by-election - would be a fantastic coup for UKIP. It is also worth pointing out that Boris’ poll at the election last year dropped sharply, due to a lot of UKIP voters switching to Labour, whilst Boris Johnson’s actual poll trod water… (50.2% up to 50.8% BUT dropping from a 11k majority to just 5k on that same poll percentage!)
If Boris ran in Uxbridge on a UKIP ticket, and maintained his Anti-Heathrow Expansion stance, he would surely grab the UKIP vote, the UKIP voters that migrated to Labour last year AND the votes of the Tory Right, thus increasing his majority on the rhubarb and custard rosette… There’s even a possibility he might ■■■■■■ a few disillusioned Libdem voters, and Blairite Labour voters from 2017 as well, of course…
Indeed, if Boris stayed where he is right now, - he might even LOSE his seat at the next election if he does so!
“Brexit not being done” by the next election - is going to seriously hurt the Tories. Hurt them more than they were hurt in 1997 I reckon.
EDL and BNP continue to split the Right vote though. The Conservative Party does too, of course!
That’s the whole point, by alienating them (and without saying so presumably finding them distasteful) UKIP won’t benefit from their votes, i had hoped Batten would have realised this by now, petty differences between the patriotic votes are meaningless, we really are in the situation where my enemy is my enemy’s enemy.
Oh and unless the Tories carry out Brexit in a meaningful way, they’d better be ready to be in the opposition for the next 3 terms at least, by which time Labour will have garnered enough votes from their new best mates to be the permanent govt.
Their only hope is to sack useless May, elect a leader worth the time of day and remove us from the EU in pretty short order, if they fail to do so they are dead.
I’d say there is a good chance that UKIP will be the next “Opposition” actually…
I see a situation arising where at the next election, UKIP surge to such an extent that they don’t win outright BUT have the “most seats”.
This in turn, will panic both Labour and Tory into a “Grand Coalition” just to keep UKIP out, but like Schulz in Germany - there will be concerns that “doing such a coalition” will leave UKIP as her majesty’s opposition. The thing is, I think a spell in opposition FIRST, rather than “Straight into government” - might actually be the best way for UKIP to gradually creep upon power.
If they just won an election outright, there would be howls of unacceptance from the mainstream, and pressure would be endless for “another ballot”, which takes all the wind out of UKIP’s sails, not even permitted to have a “Honeymoon period” in office, like the mainstream always seem to get when freshly elected. Sad to say, but times have changed.
The country just isn’t nice about poll results any longer these days. The Referendum result proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt!
FFS Any political party winning 52% of the poll of those that actually voted - would be an absolute DREAMBOAT for that party! - Unless it is “Not of the Mainstream” of course…
Instead we have the Hard Left moaning about “what they should get for their 40%” even more than Remainers moaning about what they get for their 48%…
Dunno. Why don’t they ask the 1% that led them to vote Remain in the first place huh?
Whilst I’m here actually, I’ll show you the following rather interesting chart… (Betting odds from the “Next General Election Market”.)
It shows how the price for “Any other” has dropped from 1000-1 against to around 25-1 against now…
This is the price for “Any party other than Tory, Labour (Or Libdem)” to win the most seats at the next general election in the UK."
That essentially means it is the price for UKIP to win the most seats at the next election.
25-1 against might not sound much - but that is a LOT shorter than 1000-1 against, and means that “Impossible” has improved to “unlikely” now. Not even “HIGHLY unlikely”.
Another chart: This one shows how the odds on there being an election in 2019 (3 years early!) have been shortening over the previous days and weeks…
This makes sense. How can this government stand up if Brexit isn’t complete by March 31st 2019?
Either May goes, or there will be a vote of no confidence, and the entire government falls.
Because it is already a minority government, May is effectively only held in place by the rest of the Tory Party’s reluctance to bring her down - because it would almost certainly trigger that early election!
The betting money suggest that is exactly what is going to happen, though!
As a betting man myself - I believe very strongly that the betting market is MUCH more informative to watch than any biased “opinion poll” out there. This is because it represents hard cash being staked upon whatever result one is interested in.
When a politician says “I’m not a betting person but…” - imo you can safely ignore anything else the idiot has to say from then onwards!
Winseer, i think you give the electorate too much credit.
Despite proving beyond all doubt over decades that they are made up mostly of traitors, the electorate never fail to vote overwhelmingly for the main two parties of betrayal, far too many people will vote for whatever free money of their own or borrowed in other peoples children’s names they are promised, whether that’s more benefits from the money trees of Croydon or more false promises of being able to keep more of their earnings before its taken via all the forms of taxation.
The country is bolloxed mate, just a matter of time before all hell breaks loose when the demographs are slanted enough.
I can see where you’re coming from there, but I like to hold a bit more faith in my fellow countryfolk than to just write them all off as being “idiots, behaving like idiots, easily fooled by idiots - all the time”.
Social Media has brought a flood of information, mis-information, and downright lies to public scrutiny. Our ability as individuals now lets us all decide more than ever before “Who do we follow”?
The time for “Third Party Parties” is surely coming to an end?
I’m talking about an end to “Altruism” over “Goodwill” and “Mass Hysteria” instead of “Faith” or even “Indoctrination” over “Education”.
If people of whatever political persuasion have one thing in common - it is their own very personal agenda. I don’t see many apologists giving up those very things they like to preach against in public for example… Phone masts near schools “I’ve just gotta take this…” or “Chemtrails” (off on holidays by plane are we?) or “Remain” (Did you have to pay a 20% premium for that German car?) or even “Animal Rights” (Halal Slaughter by your buddies OK by you is it?)
People’s opinions are becoming more fragmented, and I suggest we all now have political “faceted profiles” rather than just are simply "Left or “Right” or “Centerist” any longer.
It is way beyond even a “Spectrum” in the proverbial “Visible Light” sense at least. Perhaps the wider “Electromagnetic” context might be a better anology of where we stand now…
Instead of “Hard Left”, we’ll have “Infra Red”. Instead of “UKIP” we’ll have “Ultra-Violet”. There are a lot of invisible bands way beyond those of course, with Microwaves being longer (“lefter”) than Infra Red, which will boil your organs if you let them… Or X-rays being way shorter (“Righter”) than Ultra Violet - that can see right through us all!
I, as what would formerlly be called a “RIght Winger” have a “Left” facet to me! - I am against “Unfair Capitalism”, and think like Tony Benn did that “Banks should all be nationalized permanently, and be made to serve the public, rather than any shareholders”… I have (an albeit shrinking) Centerist aspect: “We should all be able to live in peace and harmony without fear nor favour”… But I don’t have any “Faithless” aspects at all. Perhaps there lies the key for future politicians of any popularity then? - To create a political order that the public can actually believe in?
… “Don’t believe in ‘Church and State’, and everything they tell you. Believe in me - I’m with the high command!”
(Mike and the Mechanics, “Silent Running”)
EDL and BNP continue to split the Right vote though. The Conservative Party does too, of course!
That’s the whole point, by alienating them (and without saying so presumably finding them distasteful) UKIP won’t benefit from their votes, i had hoped Batten would have realised this by now, petty differences between the patriotic votes are meaningless, we really are in the situation where my enemy is my enemy’s enemy.
Oh and unless the Tories carry out Brexit in a meaningful way, they’d better be ready to be in the opposition for the next 3 terms at least, by which time Labour will have garnered enough votes from their new best mates to be the permanent govt.
Their only hope is to sack useless May, elect a leader worth the time of day and remove us from the EU in pretty short order, if they fail to do so they are dead.
I don’t get the stupid premise which the country seems to be going along with that the Cons predictably won’t deliver Brexit so let’s put Labour in instead that will fix it.
Let alone the lack of realisation among the Tommy Robinson supporter vote that they need to do whatever it takes to help UKIP beat the Cons and Labour and in this case that obviously means deferring to UKIP as required.Not moaning and whingeing about taking their ball away because they aren’t by necessity getting the invites to the party or place at the table that they’d ideally like.On that note it’s clear that Batten carries none of the arguably wavering baggage of Farage so what’s the bleedin problem with backing him unconditionally bearing in mind that realistically Batten and UKIP are the country’s only and last chance.
Because Carry me old mate, that’s the behaviour of the Tory Betrayal party.
They’ll ignore you they’ll hold their noses in your presence (not as they’d ever associate with the genuine working class), have no shame in telling you what they really think of you, that you think the wrong thoughts and say all the wrong things…what was it Cameron said about needing more religion of peace?..but they’ll take your vote and your money if you’re stupid enough to give it to them and then call you all the names under the sun whilst virtue signalling to the easily led how wonderful They are…oh and when they start another war they’ll have no issue in sending the working class whom they despise to die for them and to kill other working class bods, Blair cut from the same cloth.
Tommy wouldn’t be welcome as an ex EDL member let along the heinous crime of being the EDL leader, Farage would never stand for it and he still calls the shots and will probably be leader of UKIP again this time next year, which will ensure i won’t be voting for them.
Batten seems a decent stick and has been saying the right things about Tommy Robinson, now if he means whats he said then he’ll move to allow ex EDL members on board, if he won’t do that then what difference is there between the Tory Betrayal Party and UKIP, answer bugger all, all he wants is the votes of Tommy supporters and the patriotic working class.
Winseer:
I, as what would formerlly be called a “RIght Winger” have a “Left” facet to me! - I am against “Unfair Capitalism”, and think like Tony Benn did that "Banks should all be nationalized
That’s the difference between a Nationalist v race to the bottom free markets Tory or Socialist and as we know the establishment hates Nationalism but can work with both Socialism and free markets Capitalism as in the case of China.While it’s easy to confuse Nationalism with Socialism.Either deliberately as the German people found out in the case of the Nazis .Or in the case of the SNP.Or by accident as in the case of Benn himself among others like Shore and Heffer.On that note I don’t think Nationalist is of the so called Right at all unlike Socialist and free markets Capitalist.With Benn being further to the left than Corbyn in that regard let alone Blair and is how I consider myself.
Juddian:
Because Carry me old mate, that’s the behaviour of the Tory Betrayal party.
They’ll ignore you they’ll hold their noses in your presence (not as they’d ever associate with the genuine working class), have no shame in telling you what they really think of you, that you think the wrong thoughts and say all the wrong things…what was it Cameron said about needing more religion of peace?..but they’ll take your vote and your money if you’re stupid enough to give it to them and then call you all the names under the sun whilst virtue signalling to the easily led how wonderful They are…oh and when they start another war they’ll have no issue in sending the working class whom they despise to die for them and to kill other working class bods, Blair cut from the same cloth.
Tommy wouldn’t be welcome as an ex EDL member let along the heinous crime of being the EDL leader, Farage would never stand for it and he still calls the shots and will probably be leader of UKIP again this time next year, which will ensure i won’t be voting for them.
Batten seems a decent stick and has been saying the right things about Tommy Robinson, now if he means whats he said then he’ll move to allow ex EDL members on board, if he won’t do that then what difference is there between the Tory Betrayal Party and UKIP, answer bugger all, all he wants is the votes of Tommy supporters and the patriotic working class.
We all know what the Tories are all about ( together with their ‘Labour’ allies ).But that’s not the same thing as the voters themselves saying the Cons are deliberately sabotaging Brexit so let’s put Labour in instead that’ll fix it.How.
As for Batten deferring to Farage.We know that UKIP’s fortunes are bouncing back ‘because’ of Batten and by the same logic they’ll go back where they were if he then hands it all back over to zb up Farage.So Batten stays and makes a pact with For Britain but in doing so then alienates more of the swing voters that it will take to beat the LabLibDemCons than it gains in the form of the For Britain vote for example.That fixes Tommy’s and the country’s problems how ?.As opposed to For Britain swallowing its pride and just ( very ) quietly and tacitly falling in behind and deferring to UKIP and unconditionally following Batten’s lead and leave it at that.Then ‘if’ Farage does decide to takeover the agenda again and Batten lets him do it then just go back to the all bets are off situation we’ve already got between For Britain and UKIP.
Bearing in mind the clear contradiction between Farage’s comments supporting the arrest and imprisonment of Robinson v Alan Craig’s absolutely clear position of support of Robinson outside the Court obviously also with the obvious backing of Gerard Batten.We can then add to that Farage’s catastrophic call for voters to trust May to deliver Brexit as he’s obviously referred to here himself.
It’s anyone’s guess how that failure and difference in approach to the Tommy Robinson issue could ever just be over looked and papered over if Farage decides to return to the scene.Also bearing in mind that the word is still that May’s administration could collapse by the Autumn triggering an election at that point.In which case that will deffo be all about Batten v the rest in the form of the LabLibDemCon alliance take your pick it’s up to you.
I’m inclined to agree with this notion that Farage doesn’t need to become Leader of UKIP again, he merely needs a parliamentary seat, and perhaps some other role in any future UKIP coalition government other than “Deputy PM” which is not where the power is going to be…
I don’t believe Labour will let Corbyn do Brexit, even if he got elected with a thumping majority on the basis of “Labour have gotta be better at Brexit than the outgoing Tories”…
No, I don’t think so. Brexit is a disenfranchised working people’s argument that has been left behind by ALL poltiical parties. The ultimate “Protest Vote”. For Brexit to be overturned, we would have to have a return to Left wing Fascism or Right wing Imperialism, and turn the clock back a century in the process. I would rather we just got on with Brexit, “Best foot forward” basis.
Let Brexit take over the reins of “progress”, rather than (as it’s opponents would have it…) “Some kind of return to the dark ages” - which of course it is not. A bit of vision is needed.
Get past this notion that “Boris is only for Boris”.
I don’t give a toss who implements Brexit - as long as it is done fully and properly.
If it is not done, then the Westminster rabble will continue to be hostage to “outsiders” like UKIP for years to come.
Like a dead wasp, - UKIP can continue to sting the government from a position of “nowhere” and “zero seats” meanwhile.
Winseer:
If Boris ran in Uxbridge on a UKIP ticket, and maintained his Anti-Heathrow Expansion stance
The anti expansion stance he believes in so much that he ■■■■■■ off out of the country to avoid a vote on it rather than upset Tory grandees? More chance of winning the lottery than Johnson standing under a UKIP ticket.
Winseer:
If Boris ran in Uxbridge on a UKIP ticket, and maintained his Anti-Heathrow Expansion stance
The anti expansion stance he believes in so much that he [zb] off out of the country to avoid a vote on it rather than upset Tory grandees? More chance of winning the lottery than Johnson standing under a UKIP ticket.
If Boris ran in Uxbridge the 24% (self identifying last census) ethnic minority population may well vote for anyone except him following the “pillar-box” comments.
Maybe he is against a ban on religious clothing but he was pretty crass in his choice of words.
Anyone would think it was a deliberate plot to deflect interest from other things?
Franglais:
If Boris ran in Uxbridge the 24% (self identifying last census) ethnic minority population may well vote for anyone except him following the “pillar-box” comments.
Maybe he is against a ban on religious clothing but he was pretty crass in his choice of words.
Anyone would think it was a deliberate plot to deflect interest from other things?
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It was clear in the article that he did not favour a ban, that was the point, he was arguing against the Danish ban.
There are muslims that speak out against the niqab and the burqa, and this is a guess, there may be those who do so privately, not wishing to attract unwelcome comments/censure from the more hardline in their community. But probably about 23%!
Franglais:
If Boris ran in Uxbridge the 24% (self identifying last census) ethnic minority population may well vote for anyone except him following the “pillar-box” comments.
Maybe he is against a ban on religious clothing but he was pretty crass in his choice of words.
Anyone would think it was a deliberate plot to deflect interest from other things?
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
It was clear in the article that he did not favour a ban, that was the point, he was arguing against the Danish ban.
There are muslims that speak out against the niqab and the burqa, and this is a guess, there may be those who do so privately, not wishing to attract unwelcome comments/censure from the more hardline in their community. But probably about 23%!
Is he playing (trying to) play both ways again?
Appealing to religious conservatives by being against a ban on full coverings? This position will stand him well with the liberals.
But by using “letter box” jokes strike a chord with the less liberal and tolerant viewpint?
Or am I seeing a clever ploy, when he’s really a fool alienating both sides simultaneously?
Clever or foolish, I have no trust in anything he says.
albion:
It was clear in the article that he did not favour a ban, that was the point, he was arguing against the Danish ban.
There are muslims that speak out against the niqab and the burqa, and this is a guess, there may be those who do so privately, not wishing to attract unwelcome comments/censure from the more hardline in their community. But probably about 23%!
Is he playing (trying to) play both ways again?
Appealing to religious conservatives by being against a ban on full coverings? This position will stand him well with the liberals.
But by using “letter box” jokes strike a chord with the less liberal and tolerant viewpint?
Or am I seeing a clever ploy, when he’s really a fool alienating both sides simultaneously?
Clever or foolish, I have no trust in anything he says.
Just putting on a pretence of doing just enough to play to the relatively less tolerant Con audience,which is all they’ll ever be,while at the same time not upsetting May and her Saudi mates too much.The Cons are hopelessly crippled by their own pro/anti immigration contradictions in this case being all about appeasing the savage backward Saudi radical Islamic regime.Hopefully no one has any trust in anything he says but unfortunately if he can fool people like Winseer the rest have got no chance.Then at best we still end up with yet another lying no hoper Con administration with Bojo’s name added to all the other lying Tory tossers we’ve had to lead us over the years.When realistically the next election campaign needs to be a straight fight between Corbyn and Batten with all of the stupid pointless Con muppets,including Bojo,now just getting in the way and muddying the waters which can only help Corbyn.
In which case what possible complaint could you have with their clear position on the matter?.
