Smart motorway crashes beginning to gather pace

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Socketset:
Eternal roadworks on the M3 - hope it’s all going to be worth it.

Maybe a 60 limit would make them safer and flow well - personally I don’t like the idea of not having anywhere to go if there’s a problem but we’ll see what happens when the Big Day comes.

The reality is that it’s just a silly theory based on the idea of slowing up following traffic to match slow running,often lane hogging,traffic at the front of the line.Rather than doing something about the dawdling and lane hogging that causes it.The end result of which just means longer overall journey times thereby defeating the object of using a motorway.

Which probably explains why we’ve already got traffic issues through Kingston and around Tolworth and New Malden and Esher caused by drivers doing whatever it takes to avoid the M3 in favour of using the ( so far ) still relatively faster less regulated A3.The result being that the ‘issues’ with the M3,combined with the Hindhead tunnel ‘improvement’,has just attracted more traffic and more mobile camera enforcement onto it often thereby also resulting in longer journey times than before the tunnel was built.

As for silly over regulated motorways there is a point where all the potential downsides,of at worse being caught in massive traffic jams for whatever reason, aren’t outweighed by any upsides.Of at best silly low overall speeds resulting from over enforcement ( including rip off scamera activety ) and hopeless lane discipline and in the case of trucks 56 mph limiters.To the point where motorways are now often a liability not an asset with similar alternatives like the A3 going the same way.

In which case single and some dual carriageway A and B roads are increasingly often the easier routes to use than the pointless,slow,over regulated motorway system.IE I no longer bother with using the A3 or M3 or M25/M23 when running from here to Guildford or Hampshire or Sussex for example and would generally probably avoid the motorway system when travelling to other parts of the country.On the basis that they just aren’t worth all the aggro of at best having to plod along at unrealistic speeds,or getting nicked for speeding,or at worse getting stuck for hours in a typical major motorway traffic incident.

Using hard shoulders as running lanes just being a dangerous addition to those issues.Bearing in mind that motorways were designed with hard shoulders for a reason.

42

rob22888:
[Exactly. The scheme needs to be idiot proof and it isn’t.

In my opinion, they shouldn’t bother with the opening & closing of the hard shoulder, if they are going to have a smart motorway it should just be 24/7 all lane running like M6 J11-13 with regular laybys. That way, everybody knows where they stand & there is no confusion with road markings etc.

I agree. Rules for motorists should be consistent so that even the tired and the stupid know where they are. Lane discipline is a good example: it used to be very good in this country until about twenty-five years ago (maybe a bit more) when they started putting CONGESTION, STAY IN LANE in lights above the M25. Almost overnight the imperative to follow the golden rule of the road - return to the left after overtaking - was lost for ever. Smart motorways need to be used by equally smart people, and I’m not entirely convinced that we have quite enough of those. Robert

43

Although finding the smart motorway not active is a welcome sight if used correctly a vocational driver should have no issues with it.

When active I usually have the nearside lane to myself anyway, making progress passing slower moving lanes is normal practice.
Changing lane well before it becomes dedicated for an upcoming junction is no problem.
Added hazards like stopped/broken down vehicles, panic lane changers and debris just keeps one more alert.

Left is best… etc

44

I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

45

Winseer:
I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

Is there something wrong with your eyes mate?
You need some extra carrotts in your diet, most I have seen have been lit up like Blackpool, or does using the words ‘‘poor visibility managed hard shoulder’’ succeed in embelishing your point.
You forgot to use your famous ‘‘driving a killing machine’’ crack, that would really have hit the point harder.
What if, what if, …what if I was richer I wouldn’t be doing this ■■■■ job, what if I could ■■■■ the National anthem, I could go on Britains got talent.

Just use the ■■■■ road as intended, it aint up to you to agree with it or not. :unamused:

46

Winseer:
I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

Which lane of a dual carriageway do you drive in in your scenario?

47

I don’t think ■■■■■■■ the national anthem will cut it any more on BGT Rob.

From the odd clip that I’ve seen, you need a well trained dog.

48

eagerbeaver:
I don’t think ■■■■■■■ the national anthem will cut it any more on BGT Rob.

From the odd clip that I’ve seen, you need a well trained dog.

Time to start feeding the dog beans then, and trying to teach it music.
Look out for me next year. :smiley:

49

the maoster:

Winseer:
I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

Which lane of a dual carriageway do you drive in in your scenario?

Well it’s like this mate, I use lane 1.
But I’m not going to say that pal as I now realise that I’ve dropped a bit of a clanger.
So my best option is to ignore your question.

Hope that helps! :smiley:

50

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

51

robroy:

Winseer:
I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

Is there something wrong with your eyes mate?
You need some extra carrotts in your diet, most I have seen have been lit up like Blackpool, or does using the words ‘‘poor visibility managed hard shoulder’’ succeed in embelishing your point.
You forgot to use your famous ‘‘driving a killing machine’’ crack, that would really have hit the point harder.
What if, what if, …what if I was richer I wouldn’t be doing this [zb] job, what if I could ■■■■ the National anthem, I could go on Britains got talent.

Just use the [zb] road as intended, it aint up to you to agree with it or not. :unamused:

I’ll use roads with best judgement at all times. That doesn’t always involve “following the rules to the letter”. Since I don’t own the world, no one is ever going to follow my advice anyway, so I’ll plod on alone, and let nature take it’s course elsewhere. All I’ve been saying is that if we have two choices, one “legal but dangerous” the other “illegal but far safer” - then those who think “killing someone with their conscience clear” when they made a clear choice to do just that - have only got themselves to live with. “Thou shalt not kill” is a moral imperative, but “thou shalt not get jailed for killing” is quite another. I don’t trust the law to get it right, the politicians to make the correct laws, nor the police to enforce them properly when they get told by their own superiors “not to” when it politically suits the ruling party to enforce one set of rules over another.

Personally, I’d like to see everyone driving under a red ‘x’ get fined, everyone doing more than 30mph over the speed limit lose their licence, and any licence endorsements applied to professional drivers that are self-employed (so they should know better!) - get those points doubled.

Aren’t you lot all lucky I’m not this guy…

Bearing in mind this is from 2010 - one begs the question “Why didn’t they roll this kind of enforcement out on a larger scale” - like TOTAL? :imp:

52

Evil8Beezle:

the maoster:

Winseer:
I know I’m sick of being lamblasted for sticking in lane two when a poor-visibility “managed hard shoulder” comes up…

It doesn’t hurt to stay in lane two, but it’ll bloody well hurt someone broken down in lane one - if someone “blindly obeying instructions” hits them coming over the brow of a hill, around a bend, or just in the fog. What if the breakdown is an “electrical failure” type at night? The downside possibilities are legion. The upside to all this? “It saved some money at the time”, thus preventing poll taxes from rising locally, and keeping the current council firmly in control, let alone elected".

It stinks - essentially. :frowning: :imp: :angry:

Which lane of a dual carriageway do you drive in in your scenario?

Well it’s like this mate, I use lane 1.
But I’m not going to say that pal as I now realise that I’ve dropped a bit of a clanger.
So my best option is to ignore your question.

Hope that helps! :smiley:

I’ve yet to drive on a “managed motorway” that was only two lanes to start with… :unamused:

53

Inconsiderate lane hoggers are a common issue when smart motorways are active. I can see their point of view as sometimes it’s a pita to be moving from one lane to another all the time.

When it’s 50mph it makes no difference really but at 60mph they are just selfish sub standard drivers bunching traffic up around them creating hazards for no reason.

Others fear of using the hard shoulder when active just makes my progress quicker if potentially more hazardous as I prefer not to pass another truck on the nearside so will give them every opportunity to pull in.
Slightly narrower lanes also dictate a large vehicle should use the nearside lane.

54

Going up the m1 on Friday.
Slow pass by plod…then he pulls in front,and matches my speed.
Go round the corner(just north of j39)…and he’s on the brakes and blues
7.5 tonner stranded in lane 1.
Gantry signs completely blank.
What’s so smart about that?
So many similarities with the m62 minibus crash…where the lorry driver was cleared of any wrong doing.
Sticking plaster.

55

And as for dual carriageways.
The busy ones are some of the most dangerous roads we encounter.
We should be bringing them upto motorway standard…not taking motorways down to d/c standard.

56

Winseer:
I’ll use roads with best judgement at all times. That doesn’t always involve “following the rules to the letter”. Since I don’t own the world, no one is ever going to follow my advice anyway, so I’ll plod on alone, and let nature take it’s course elsewhere. All I’ve been saying is that if we have two choices, one “legal but dangerous” the other “illegal but far safer” - then those who think “killing someone with their conscience clear” when they made a clear choice to do just that - have only got themselves to live with. “Thou shalt not kill” is a moral imperative, but “thou shalt not get jailed for killing” is quite another. I don’t trust the law to get it right, the politicians to make the correct laws, nor the police to enforce them properly when they get told by their own superiors “not to” when it politically suits the ruling party to enforce one set of rules over another.

Personally, I’d like to see everyone driving under a red ‘x’ get fined, everyone doing more than 30mph over the speed limit lose their licence, and any licence endorsements applied to professional drivers that are self-employed (so they should know better!) - get those points doubled.
:

Winseer mate, you and me are like chalk and cheese, which is why I find your posts somewhat strange, amusing, sometimes boring, but nearly always mildly annoying.

I,m a bit of a laid back kind of guy who usually takes things in his stride. I usually never panic about stuff, get on with it, and if ■■■■ hppens try and deal with it the best I can and see it through, both in driving a truck and life in general, I don’t suffer d/heads in both walks of life, and basically I aint a fuss pot or a drama queen.

As for you, and judging by your posts, I picture you as this nervous wreck driving a truck, decked out in hi viz buttoned up from head to toe (just in case)
Sat bolt upright at the wheel, nose touching the windscreen, hands doing a strict 10 to 2 formation death grip.
Constantly scouring and observing the roads for potential fatal accidents, with your bluetooth on stand by to call the Police to warn them of anything from illegally parked foreigners, to undertaking trucks.
You are sat there in lane 2 totally oblivious to the fact you have a mile of traffic behind you totally wanting to strangle you.
You do not see them sat there in your ‘killing machine’ as you are totally zoned out on stand by mode, to deal with any motorway carnage which might ensue.

:smiley: Sorry mate :smiley: , no offence, but that is just how you come across to me, as I said we are like chalk and cheese when it comes to attitudes and opinions. If you and me were horse riders, you would be the rigid Dressage type with all the right kit sat rigidly upright on your horse, where as I would be like a Clint Eastwood (but better looking :smiley: ) saddle tramp slouched back, with my guns under my poncho wanting to shoot you off that poncy horse. :laughing:

Seriously bud, you must be totally knackered after every shift, so my advice is relax, don’t look for what ifs, and maybes, but be mildly aware of them as the rest of us are.
Every truck journey is not a 95% chance of motoray mayhem and carnage, so sort yourself out, … as yes you may die on the road, but from a stress related ■■■■ heart attack !! :bulb:

57

And

These roads are already being condemned in some quarters.
It’s only a matter of time,before there’s"a big un"
Press will have a field day…then the ■■■■ really will hit the fan.

58

Dipper has basically hit the nail on the head. It does not matter if a motorway is 3 lanes or 4, lane hoggers whether it be through inexperience, lack of knowledge/training or complete selfishness, ■■■■ the whole ’ keep left unless overtaking ’ ethos up.

Drivers (and wagon drivers are amongst the worst) refuse to leave sufficient gaps in front of them, which is why on an almost daily basis we see trucks smashed into the one in front of them.

We all know that we need to keep a gap, and I personally hate being behind anything over the size of a van because I can’t see sod all.

Until drivers use correct lane discipline and leave sufficient braking distance, nothing will change. And let’s be honest human beings are resistant to change and in the main, totally selfish. So just get used to crashes and congestion because it will only get worse. :frowning:

59

commonrail:
And

These roads are already being condemned in some quarters.
It’s only a matter of time,before there’s"a big un"
Press will have a field day…then the [zb] really will hit the fan.

You make it clear you are totally against these SMW s, as I said on principle I was myself when the concept first came out.

I agree they are not by far the best answer to the problem, more of a second best, or making the best out of a bad type situation.

We are only a small island, we can not have 6 lane carriageway Freeway type MWs the entire length and breadth of it, that would be ridiculous, not to mention outrageously expensive.

(Talking of outrageous and expensive on a sideline, how tf did that M6 toll white elephant ever get off the ground, the M5/M6 and beyond cluster ■■■■ bottle neck could be sorted in 5 mins if that was made free to use, so no real need for a SMW stretch there in the first place :bulb: )

Anyway, as said they can (and do) work but only if used correctlly, but also Policed which they are not, and there lies the problem…

If lane discipline was policed where lane hoggers and Winseer and his mob of self appointed traffic marshalls who turn them back into standard free lane for all balls ups, were sorted and fined it would be evident that the concept DOES work and improve traffic flow.

As for potential non hard shoulder accidents, you can not legislate for idiots, ■■■■ will ALWAYS happen in ANY traffic scenario, …adapt to situations and keep alert, after all we are ALL on her meant to be competent pro drivers. (ha ■■■■ ha)
So adapt and re.act to situations, instead of ■■■■ moaning about them.

(Neither of last 2 points aimed at you Commonrail btw :wink: )

60

Winseer:
Personally, I’d like to see everyone driving under a red ‘x’ get fined, everyone doing more than 30mph over the speed limit lose their licence, and any licence endorsements applied to professional drivers that are self-employed (so they should know better!) - get those points doubled.

Why would you want points doubled for self employed drivers. And…how could that ever be implemented?
Do you not ever break any rules of the road? Dont tell me, downhill youre on the brakes in case of a 1kph overspeed and never break any posted limits…