We get nothing deducted for breaks and are paid on written log sheets not what the tacho says so we crack on.
Let’s not be coy about it, just about all firms would like you to bend the rules on this as long as it’s deniable for them, and as such I suspect an awful lot just try to turn a blind eye to it.
At my firm it’s basically ignored, and I’m sure if some drivers had their tacho’s analysed they’d be struggling to find answer to what they were doing at X, Y & Z. 
We know its always gone on, but then we’ve always known it was bit dodgy. For me the rule used to be Friday tip on break, rest of the week on other work. 
And I never got a top of the range motor for it or even a light bar, in fact not one measly spot light. We know its always gone on, but then we’ve always known it was bit dodgy. For me the rule used to be Friday tip on break, rest of the week on other work.
And I never got a top of the range motor for it or even a light bar, in fact not one measly spot light. 
In answer to all the questions re how i work- my tacho shows everything within the law if downloaded and that goes for speed reading (records a max 0f 90kph) breaks and an hour other work every 48hrs. The reason i always put it on break when im out of the truck is to max the hours. Every single driver does the same whether employed or O/D and ive done this for over 20 years without issue. When out on the road i obviously have to take a 45 every 270 anyway so cant see what difference it makes. The law may be the law but as ive mentioned any authority could download it and wouldnt find any anomolies, none that they could prosecute for anyway.
Many many euro companies on pay per load work the same way inc all BG/HU/RO on PPL.
The company i sub for offers the option of hourly pay but as the earnings for ppl are much higher its a no brainer. And before i get the usual tirade of speeding/ tailgating ect ect its very rare theres accidents recorded, its just a matter of getting loaded and getting the job done. PPl is the incentive not to drag the job and gets far more tonnage moved which is what its about…
Are you not forgetting that this is a tanker thread Andrew, as who else is doing the unloading for them?
Yes in other sectors you can blag break, but when you’re the one trained to do the offloading or loading, it’s a bit more tricky to explain when questioned by DVSA. 
I deliver to some places that I can blag being on break, and some that I can’t…
So I’m guessing some at Simon Gibson couldn’t make the distinction!
AndrewG:
In answer to all the questions re how i work- my tacho shows everything within the law if downloaded and that goes for speed reading (records a max 0f 90kph) breaks and an hour other work every 48hrs. The reason i always put it on break when im out of the truck is to max the hours. Every single driver does the same whether employed or O/D and ive done this for over 20 years without issue. When out on the road i obviously have to take a 45 every 270 anyway so cant see what difference it makes. The law may be the law but as ive mentioned any authority could download it and wouldnt find any anomolies, none that they could prosecute for anyway.
Many many euro companies on pay per load work the same way inc all BG/HU/RO on PPL.
The company i sub for offers the option of hourly pay but as the earnings for ppl are much higher its a no brainer. And before i get the usual tirade of speeding/ tailgating ect ect its very rare theres accidents recorded, its just a matter of getting loaded and getting the job done. PPl is the incentive not to drag the job and gets far more tonnage moved which is what its about…
Yes, we know that there is a way to reprogramme the tacho, you have told us on here how much it costs. I don’t have a big problem with an individual o/d ‘maximising’ his earnings, he takes the risk and hassle of running a truck, good luck to him. But I don’t agree with making/ coercing employed drivers break the law. It is the driver who risks his lively hood, for a quick buck, and to make the boss richer. And will that boss put his hands up and take the rap when the driver gets collared? I think we know the answer.
So, would you be happy if you employed a driver, and he did less work than you, because he sticks to the rules?
the nodding donkey:
So, would you be happy if you employed a driver, and he did less work than you, because he sticks to the rules?
What is AG doing which is wrong though? He shows ‘other work’ whilst trailer swapping and the rest of the time on his drop and swap runs he is showing break whenever he stops to keep his work hours to a minimum.
mrginge:
the nodding donkey:
So, would you be happy if you employed a driver, and he did less work than you, because he sticks to the rules?What is AG doing which is wrong though? He shows ‘other work’ whilst trailer swapping and the rest of the time on his drop and swap runs he is showing break whenever he stops to keep his work hours to a minimum.
What Andew does is neither here nor there. But in another thread he stated that he would not employ a driver who wouldnt ‘go the extra mile’ for a company, even if that extra effort was purely for the company’s (I. e. the boss) benefit. I’m just wondering if ‘tipping of the card’, falls under ‘the extra mile’.
Conor:
Around here Simon Gibson pay decent money.As for what they did, we have plenty of drivers on this forum who advocate being on break whilst sat unloading so what they were doing was no different. You hook up to the discharge pipe, start the blower and go inspect the back of your eyelids for an hour on that job and in fact in many places they have staff to do it for you so I find it a bit funny you’re having a go at them. That is probably the reason that they got off and nobody got fined either, it could technically have been classed as PoA so a claim of the time its pumping out being other work wouldn’t have stood a chance of surviving a test in a court should the TC have implemented a penalty and Gibsons challenged it.
…
I dont often agree with Conor, but Simon Gibson is a good well paid job with top notch tackle, and Simon himself is a decent fella.
So who was benefitting by these heroes tipping on break, themselves or Simon Gibson. Or both ?
the nodding donkey:
mrginge:
the nodding donkey:
So, would you be happy if you employed a driver, and he did less work than you, because he sticks to the rules?What is AG doing which is wrong though? He shows ‘other work’ whilst trailer swapping and the rest of the time on his drop and swap runs he is showing break whenever he stops to keep his work hours to a minimum.
What Andew does is neither here nor there. But in another thread he stated that he would not employ a driver who wouldnt ‘go the extra mile’ for a company, even if that extra effort was purely for the company’s (I. e. the boss) benefit. I’m just wondering if ‘tipping of the card’, falls under ‘the extra mile’.
Company i sub for doesnt force any driver to get tacho infringements and nor would i and any tacho download here will always be within the law.
However, at interview drivers are told in no uncertain terms how to maximise pay, yes this benefits the company but also the driver. Whether thats seen as right or wrong is another matter but here the work and pay is very good and the trucks are all top notch big power Volvo /Scania units…very few turn the job down and few leave… 
Evil8Beezle:
Are you not forgetting that this is a tanker thread Andrew, as who else is doing the unloading for them?
Yes in other sectors you can blag break, but when you’re the one trained to do the offloading or loading, it’s a bit more tricky to explain when questioned by DVSA.I deliver to some places that I can blag being on break, and some that I can’t…
So I’m guessing some at Simon Gibson couldn’t make the distinction!
Youre right mate…just in response to the little berating for very slightly bending the rules… 
the nodding donkey:
What Andew does is neither here nor there. But in another thread he stated that he would not employ a driver who wouldnt ‘go the extra mile’ for a company, even if that extra effort was purely for the company’s (I. e. the boss) benefit. I’m just wondering if ‘tipping of the card’, falls under ‘the extra mile’.
A true story from when I ran my own truck.
Someone who I had known twenty years earlier contacted me through Facebook, asking me if i knew of any work going, as he had been out of work for three months and was in serious debt, including with his rent. He was desperate for work. I asked him if he was interested in doing four-on, four off, sharing my truck and he leapt at it.
One of his first jobs was to take a load from Edmonton to Plymouth, I was still talking through the job at this stage and I suggested he took a break at Membury or Leigh Delamere, so he could still easily get to Plymouth in 4.5 hours.
He then phoned me to say he was taking his break at Reading and when I asked why, he said “because I felt like it”.
Later, at around 1620, he phoned and said "I’m on the industrial estate but I can’t find the place (Booker’s Cash and Carry) and I’m on 4 hours 20 minutes so I’m taking a break. I said “it’s two minutes drive away, you can take your break while they are tipping you, if you don’t get tipped today you won’t get reloaded”- he had started at 0900 and would have had to work until 1900 if reloaded. He chuntered and moaned, but eventually went there, was tipped in 20 minutes and took the rest of his 45 on site.
The following weekend he decided that he wasn’t prepared to work because he didn’t want to miss the Formula One racing on the TV, so I sacked him. He was outraged.
The point is that there may be bad employers, but there are also drivers who won’t even do the easy mile, let alone the extra mile.
AndrewG:
the nodding donkey:
mrginge:
the nodding donkey:
So, would you be happy if you employed a driver, and he did less work than you, because he sticks to the rules?What is AG doing which is wrong though? He shows ‘other work’ whilst trailer swapping and the rest of the time on his drop and swap runs he is showing break whenever he stops to keep his work hours to a minimum.
What Andew does is neither here nor there. But in another thread he stated that he would not employ a driver who wouldnt ‘go the extra mile’ for a company, even if that extra effort was purely for the company’s (I. e. the boss) benefit. I’m just wondering if ‘tipping of the card’, falls under ‘the extra mile’.
Company i sub for doesnt force any driver to get tacho infringements and nor would i and any tacho download here will always be within the law.
However, at interview drivers are told in no uncertain terms how to maximise pay, yes this benefits the company but also the driver. Whether thats seen as right or wrong is another matter but here the work and pay is very good and the trucks are all top notch big power Volvo /Scania units…very few turn the job down and few leave…
I appreciate that, although telling a driver ‘in no uncertain terms how to maximise pay’ could be interpreted in different ways 
.
But all this is fairly irrelevant in your line of work, seeing as you only drive between two sites, and swap trailers. Like you, I put my tacho on break whenever I stop (for a cuppa, for a pee, or what such), which is fine. It’s (un)loading whilst you’re busy, or supposed to be busy (tankers!! 
), where putting the tacho on break is both against the law, and depriving yourself of a break. And even if one does it occasionally (we’ve all been late, or needed that extra half hour after, to get to a favourite overnight stop ), that is creative, and not the end of the world. The problem is with companies that plan you for two runs, when those two runs can only be made by tipping of the card, or stuff like tippers, where drivers tear about all day, every day, to chase an extra load.
the nodding donkey:
or stuff like tippers, where drivers tear about all day, every day, to chase an extra load.
That’s because we have such a small window, places don’t open till 7-8am and close for tipping at 4:30pm and not many will load you after 4pm.
Tata Steel are the best, complain they might loose their jobs but the workers try their best not to do work. Won’t tip till daylight and you have to be in their by 3:15pm to tip at the latest and if you want loading you need to get the load on and be on the exit weighbridge by 3pm
Harry Monk:
The point is that there may be bad employers, but there are also drivers who won’t even do the easy mile, let alone the extra mile.
I make you right Harry. Far too many of our fellow truckers are out to make statement of their independence, or some such rubbish, and refuse to think in manner that they would ask if they were the boss. Some even go out of their way to be unhelpful. All in the effort of “sticking it to the man” or some such rubbish.
F-reds:
Harry Monk:
The point is that there may be bad employers, but there are also drivers who won’t even do the easy mile, let alone the extra mile.I make you right Harry. Far too many of our fellow truckers are out to make statement of their independence, or some such rubbish, and refuse to think in manner that they would ask if they were the boss. Some even go out of their way to be unhelpful. All in the effort of “sticking it to the man” or some such rubbish.
^
This x 100
Not a case of tonguing the boss ect in the vain hope of being better thought of, its just having a bit of savvy, and in a lot of cases doing a little extra to benefit the company will invariably benefit the driver also. Yes, an an employee everyone should be treated equal but its human nature, those that are known to be helpful will invariably gain from it in the long run whether its being kept on if redundencies arise or renumeration at the end of the month ect.
Ive only ever been an employer as such twice and that was only both two short periods but as well as paying the driver (known experienced drivers) a very good rate made it clear bonus’s are there to be had for getting the job done…and… it works…
Breaking the law to go the ‘extra mile’ never benefits the driver as they the ones who will carry the can when caught.
The company will deny ever having asked/expected the driver to do it…hanging the driver out to dry.
If you think ‘my boss won’t do that, he’s decent’ then you are seriously deluded.
This is the norm in most tanker operations,if not the woRk dont get done and the driver dont earn because a lot are on percentage. Not saying it is correct to do it, just saying it`s an excepted practise.
DonutUK:
Breaking the law to go the ‘extra mile’ never benefits the driver as they the ones who will carry the can when caught.The company will deny ever having asked/expected the driver to do it…hanging the driver out to dry.
If you think ‘my boss won’t do that, he’s decent’ then you are seriously deluded.
Its not a case of 'breaking the law ’ as such, as long as tacho downloads are in order and theres nothing that can be proved/misproven thats all that matters…