Thing is overtime is just that …
Many places don’t pay any more for working anything extra or even weekend rates.
OT was always 1.5 x sat 1.5 x Sunday 2x anything before 6am and after 6 pm got extras and it all just one rate now .
Wtd, just another ridiculous EU law that needs repealing, also simplify the hours regs.
Conor:
LIBERTY_GUY:
The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days offYou completely and utterly miss the entire point of the WTD. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety - that is the role of the EU Drivers Hours regulations. The WTD is to do entirely with the health and wellbeing of the worker.
Should have been 48hrs duty time a week, no PoA, no “averaging over the reference period.” I can never get my head around the fact so many truck drivers seem to actually WANT to work themselves into an early grave - “If I can’t do 70hrs a week then jobs no good” attitude.
Well until all hauliers start paying higher wages Drivers will need to work over 48hrs a week for it to be worthwhile ,
Also not all drivers work for companies that are local to them i know lads who travel over 300miles round trip to their workplace, once every 2 or 3 weeks sometimes they are away on the road longer,doing euro work, a 48hr week on those type of jobs would be unworkable
tommy t:
Well until all hauliers start paying higher wages Drivers will need to work over 48hrs a week for it to be worthwhile
If drivers were limited to 48 shift time then they would not do the job unless the wages went higher
Conor:
Javiatrix:
So I’ve heard the 48 hour figure bounced around for ages, but assumed it was something that could be opted out of. It turns out I assumed wrong, as in all official documentation I can find states clearly ‘NO OPT OUT’.I’ve never worked less than 50 hours, and regularly exceed 60 hours, and this has been the norm at every haulier I’ve worked for. It’s VERY rare for me to work less than 12 hours per day, and I work five days a week, for months on end, and from what I can gather this is normal for me and all the other drivers too.
As per the title, am I missing something or is this widespread practice blatant flounting of the law on a huge scale?
Cheers!
You’re missing the fact it does not include breaks or PoA in the 48hrs. Are you on driving or other work for 50 or more hours a week every week?
I am.
Conor:
LIBERTY_GUY:
The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days offYou completely and utterly miss the entire point of the WTD. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety - that is the role of the EU Drivers Hours regulations. The WTD is to do entirely with the health and wellbeing of the worker.
Should have been 48hrs duty time a week, no PoA, no “averaging over the reference period.” I can never get my head around the fact so many truck drivers seem to actually WANT to work themselves into an early grave - “If I can’t do 70hrs a week then jobs no good” attitude.
+1 when will the penny drop! 
we can only live in hope for better working condition/hours,but don’t hold your breath! never mind its friday!! 
I am now happily retired some 5 years, however I remember when the 48 hour week came in.
I personally did not know any drivers who could have made sufficient money in the 48 hours.
(Over the years we have all worked excessive hours and it has now become “normal” to work
excessive hours.) Hauliers are also squeezed and need drivers to work these hours. I remember
my gaffer saying “We’ll pay it lip service”.
I firmly believe that yet again drivers shot themselves in the foot with all this nonsense of
POA, it should have been 48 hours maximum and finish for the week.
To be honest I myself worked long hours and my father before me did the same. How many of us
have gone for a job and asked “Is the plenty of overtime?”
It would would be interesting to hear the views of old time hauliers such as the esteemed Bewick on
this subject.
Last but not least I enjoyed the life but I am not sorry to be out of it.
Where the WTD falls flat on its arse;
You’re on your way back to base in the afternoon, having done all your drops, base is twenty minutes drive away and you’ve got an hour of driving time left. Unfortunately you’ve accrued five hours and forty-five minutes of working time without a break, so you’ve got to sit and twiddle your thumbs in a lay-by for fifteen minutes before you can carry on and go home. Effectively, if you add in the start and stop bits all it achieves is that you end up getting home twenty minutes later, with a corresponding shortfall in your available daily rest. That does nowt for a driver’s safety or long-term well-being; in fact it only serves to raise stress levels.
WTD was designed for the likes of factory workers etc. and quite rightly gives them the chance to have a proper break after a work period; prior to this there was little formal regulation. Vocational drivers already have that provided for in the Driving hours Regulations; the WTD is an unnecessary and pointlessly complex addition to this. What the hell is the point of having one set of regulations which allows you to drive for a maximum of 56 hours in a working week (not that I’d want to) and another which says you can only work for 48?
If it ever is actually enforced, we’re in the ludicrous situation of getting bollockings for just doing our job.
The easy way around all this is to refuse to co-operate with “planners” who think it’s efficient and cool to plan you out for 15 hours all the time, giving you no room for overshoot on time should there be an “additional accident/delay/diversion” to normal.
If you’ve just got back to the yard at the 11 hour mark for example, why can’t anyone REFUSE an extra 3 hour approx run out without the sky falling on their heads for doing so?
Every year we stay in the EU - the more and more restrictions are going to be placed on what, when, and how (H&S) wise we work.
What won’t happen though - is companies saying “Ok folks, we’ve taken the ■■■■ these past years getting you to work 60-70 hour weeks for £500 flat pay - now we’re going to cut your hours to 48 maximum with 42 hours of planned runs” (6 hours slippage allowance!) whilst maintaining your original pay at very least. There will be a paycut in there somewhere.
Remember - there is a shortage of drivers willing to continue having the ■■■■ taken out of them. As yards go bust, bigger yards will pick up the business and expand.
I would argue that working for a medium sized firm (50-100 drivers) is better than some massive place or a small yard that’ll always bang on about "We need you to work 70 hours for a bit less from now on son… You wouldn’t want to see us go under and you lose your job now would you?"
Firms like the supermarkets or produce yards will feel the “shortage” first I reckon. More and more often client firms are going to have to select Catweazle, One-eyed Jack, and One-eyed Trouser snake - because the agencies have no one else left. 
Winseer:
Every year we stay in the EU - the more and more restrictions are going to be placed on what, when, and how (H&S) wise we work.
What won’t happen though - is companies saying “Ok folks, we’ve taken the ■■■■ these past years getting you to work 60-70 hour weeks for £500 flat pay - now we’re going to cut your hours to 48 maximum with 42 hours of planned runs” (6 hours slippage allowance!) whilst maintaining your original pay at very least. There will be a paycut in there somewhere.
I was at Geopost as a Linehaul driver in the year on the run up to the WTD coming into being and before anyone knew that PoAs had been negotiated. At the time the company and union were discussing the realistic possibility of a 20% wage rise because they knew that if it came into effect and they didn’t have enough drivers they’d be royally stuffed.
Then the PoA was announced and it was back to scratting about trying to get 4/5%.
WTD is a farce and totally pointless as has been said one set of rules contradicts the other the tacho rules are enough all we needed was an audition of the six hour rule and it would have been ok
A big problem at the moment is that these “EU Rules” which are “supposed” to make workers better off - actually cause one’s pay and work to carry so many restrictions, that the job becomes all “rush rush rush” for the same or even less pay.
We’d still be better off out of the whole damned thing. We also need to restrict foreign trucks on our roads, at least until we’ve built a LOT more places for them to park up at night.
Conor:
Winseer:
Every year we stay in the EU - the more and more restrictions are going to be placed on what, when, and how (H&S) wise we work.
What won’t happen though - is companies saying “Ok folks, we’ve taken the ■■■■ these past years getting you to work 60-70 hour weeks for £500 flat pay - now we’re going to cut your hours to 48 maximum with 42 hours of planned runs” (6 hours slippage allowance!) whilst maintaining your original pay at very least. There will be a paycut in there somewhere.I was at Geopost as a Linehaul driver in the year on the run up to the WTD coming into being and before anyone knew that PoAs had been negotiated. At the time the company and union were discussing the realistic possibility of a 20% wage rise because they knew that if it came into effect and they didn’t have enough drivers they’d be royally stuffed.
Then the PoA was announced and it was back to scratting about trying to get 4/5%.
As long as POA are “paid hours” - it represents no problems for the driver. If POA counts as UNPAID break though - just refuse to book any - ever. 
If you run out of hours (by YOUR book not the firm’s), call out the pool car to pick you up every day/week/reference period - they’ll soon get the message “Gonna have to employ Smashem Jim from ■■■■■■■ Driver Agency. We’re not letting that upstart have his own way! - we’ll let Jim smash our fleet up, and claim it all off the insurance as usual. Great that the insurers have not cottoned onto the fact we’re going out of our way to employ inept drivers yet eh?”
Meanwhile, “fusspot” gets to trump “■■■■■■■■ every time - there’s plenty of work elsewhere right now, and firms are treating us better over the last year than they have done for years before I believe…
Winseer:
A big problem at the moment is that these “EU Rules” which are “supposed” to make workers better off - actually cause one’s pay and work to carry so many restrictions, that the job becomes all “rush rush rush” for the same or even less pay.We’d still be better off out of the whole damned thing. We also need to restrict foreign trucks on our roads, at least until we’ve built a LOT more places for them to park up at night.
Under GB domestic rules the job was rush rush rush even more as the driver was limited to a 11hr duty period. You also could work 7 days a week too.
Neither the EU or GB domestic system suited everyone. The GB system was better for drivers as they got a decent daily rest and none of this 9hrs rubbish but it meant hauliers couldn’t get as much done without running bent.
Conor:
Winseer:
A big problem at the moment is that these “EU Rules” which are “supposed” to make workers better off - actually cause one’s pay and work to carry so many restrictions, that the job becomes all “rush rush rush” for the same or even less pay.We’d still be better off out of the whole damned thing. We also need to restrict foreign trucks on our roads, at least until we’ve built a LOT more places for them to park up at night.
Under GB domestic rules the job was rush rush rush even more as the driver was limited to a 11hr duty period. You also could work 7 days a week too.
Neither the EU or GB domestic system suited everyone. The GB system was better for drivers as they got a decent daily rest and none of this 9hrs rubbish but it meant hauliers couldn’t get as much done without running bent.
without running bent■■? who didnt have 2 logbooks■■?
WHY are so many still in favour of being “free to run bent” though?
FFS it’s dangerous, involves working hours and hours unpaid, and you’re always expected to be cap-in-hand for the next “unpaid” bit of overtime one is expected to perform without question.
Once a doormat - always a doormat. 
I didn’t have 2 logbooks, things were much the same then as they are now, there were all flash no cash companies just as now, never my scene, always followed the money.
I just take off after 26 Weeks if it works out that Way
old 67:
So one of our " progressive " members in the EU has his latest brainwave. He ignores the real world and says lets make the maximum working week 48 hours for everyone. But some weeks the worker might need to work more than 48 hours. Your just being awkward now, but ok, we will make it an average of 48 hours over a fixed period of time, happy now ? We have just been told that lots of workers would like the chance to work more than 48 hours, and industry have told us they might as well shut up shop if this goes ahead. OK just to keep you happy they can opt out if they want…but not them lorry drivers, you’ve got to leave me and my new law something!
But lorry driving is the one job that’s always had to work long hours, that’s why we’ve always kept their hourly rate down, we still need them to put the hours in.
I wish you’d stop picking holes in my new law. Here’s what we’ll do. All the time lorry drivers spend at work but are not actually doing anything, won’t count as working hours OK ? We’ll call it POA. Let me see if I’ve got this straight, everyone can opt out if the want, except lorry drivers who can do 15 hours per day by using your POA idea?
Yes that’s right, happy now ? Well no, not really, the 48 HOUR thing is now totally point less. Should we not just scrap the whole idea ?
You’ve gone too far now, the EU does not have any pointless laws, and we never get it wrong…by the way, did I mention my latest idea to make it against the law to whistle in public places ?
Sorry lads just my whimsical take on the whole sorry mess [emoji38]
Regards. John.
Lol that’s the best thing I’ve read in ages. Makes perfect sense for once 
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
The WTD is not particularly aimed at “long distance” drivers as the Drivers Hours Rules cater for them. But, if you are a multi drop stop driver who does a lot of Other Work, mixed with driving of less than 4 1/2 hours, then the statutory break figure of 4 1/2 hours driving may not be reached.
As a result, this category of driver may not even get a break before the Daily / Weekly Rest clock kicks in.
Yes it’s a pain, but basic compliance with EC Drivers Hours Rules will lead predominantly with WTD Compliance for the longer distance trucker.