discoman:
It’s not 1965 anymore, it’s all electronic and computerised etc … times have moved on and will be simpler now.
It could be simpler IF both parties agree to electronic docs. So far no agreement has been reached about any such system.
WE cant "dictate" the terms to other countries. The Irish Border problem aint going away.
It maybe could be electronic if anyone had actually built the hardware and got the software sorted. With the clock ticking it looks like very little is being done this side of the channel.
Nite Owl:
Personally I’m sick to death of all these scare stories surrounding Brexit. Most of the countries in the world aren’t in Europe and they seem to manage fine. Listening to Junker and his soundbites makes me realise what a corrupt and spiteful organisation the eu really is. I’m bloody glad I voted out and I would again.
Most countries in the world are poorer than Europe. Not a group that I aspire to join.
Corrupt and spiteful politicians? Just like politicians in the UK the US and … “spiteful and corrupt” is almost in the job description isn`t it?
Nite Owl:
All we really need is a few politicians who totally believe in Brexit to run the negotiations and fight for the best deal they can get for the UK.
A few politicians who are capable of organizing a ■■■■-up in a brewery would be a good start, I`d agree.
This whole farce should be managed entirely by those that were active in the ‘Leave’ campaign to achieve maximum fair and positive results for us all…if only to shut the [zb] up these whinging bad loser belly aching remainer crew.
We had one Brexiteer handling the negotiations…David Davies…he realised it was too difficult and walked off the job
We had another Brexiteer as Foreign Secretary…Boris … he did the same.
The problem with the Brextieers is that while they were very good at complaining about the EU…including making up lies about it…they were unable to deliver anything constructive as an alternative.
“No deal” is not workable, and everyone knows it. So, we have to do a deal with the rest of the EU…which in the end means having to stick with most of the rules of the club, still paying a reduced subscription, and not having any say in the rules.
Only an idiot or a misled person would have voted for that.
Nothing is going to change, and how did we manage before.
Well if nothing is going to change, then let`s stay in.
How did we manage before?
With a bigger parking area at Dover, a fraction of the volume of cross channel traffic, permits, checks, customs docs, queues on the stairs, and TIR park clearances.
And there ends the case for the defence.
No further questions.
Clearly and succinctly put in a nutshell … (with all the belly achers put to rest, and banged to rights I reckon… )
Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.
Meaning…you prefer listening to a brainfart from a silly old man to people who might know what they are talking about?
Even the Daily Mail has given up promoting Brexit…just as they gave up on promoting Hitler in the (very) late 1930s!
Yes, much prefer listening to Pat Condell than the holier-than-thou, condescending attitude adopted by the remain lobby, personified in that evil Tony Blair.
Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.
Meaning…you prefer listening to a brainfart from a silly old man to people who might know what they are talking about?
Even the Daily Mail has given up promoting Brexit…just as they gave up on promoting Hitler in the (very) late 1930s!
Yes, much prefer listening to Pat Condell than the holier-than-thou, condescending attitude adopted by the remain lobby, personified in that evil Tony Blair.
Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.
Meaning…you prefer listening to a brainfart from a silly old man to people who might know what they are talking about?
No…meaning I prefer listening to him than I do to listening to the likes of you with your bottom lip stuck out, wittering and whinging on like a spoiled brat kid, … simply because you aint suited about a democratic vote result.
Hope that clarifies and explains.
Norfolkinclue1:
Edit: FYI Carryfast, winseer, franglais and others, I don’t particularly care for your 15 page paragraphs of google “facts” about the nazis, Thatcher, Ford and whatever other agenda you can attach to the subject in order to ruin it like you have done in the Bully’s Bar section, I have posted to point out the ignorance that pops up.
I voted out, it’s done and I was right to do it as that’s the way I feel about things, if you don’t like it then ■■■■ it up…I was not and never will be wrong in my decision, that’s democracy for you…
10/10 +1
Oh wait.So instead of arguing and settling the ideological divisions between Federalism and Nationalism and resulting Union v Secession and race to the bottom free markets v protectionism.We’ll settle it all with a non binding EU membership v secession referendum with May,Hammond,Starmer and Cable,with a bit of help from Corbyn,being the main players.That’ll fix it and what could possibly go wrong.
Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.
Personally I do care what my fellow citizens think.
And I am surprised if you, Juddian, really dont care. Honestly, you dont care about living in a country where all get to speak?
So long as you remain in a majority in all matters you may be OK, but when you find yourself in a minority you may get to think differently.
I always thought that the UK was a haven for tolerance and democracy. Not “the majority has voted for “X” therefore all dissent must be silenced”. That is the description of a totalitarian state. No, I can`t seriously believe you want that.
I have never, I think, called anyone who voted differently to me stupid, for their choices.
What an angry man Pat Condell is:
He starts by trying to split the country into “us and them”. Points out the differences in the two ways to view the situation rather than see us a common nationality trying to muddle our way forward. He moans about being branded one way, whilst lumping all opposing views as elitist, useless, unemployable, fools. He complains about his side being misrepresented, whilst misrepresenting his opponents…
EU propaganda in schools? What?
Never heard a bad word about the EU from a school teacher? Not me its true. But then I quit school before the EU existed so it isnt very likely really is it?
Teachers worried about EU funding he suggests? Impossible, we dont get any benefits from the EU do we? Then a nice bit of him raising the ire of those who feel aggrieved at the press. He suggests the press think of Leavers as being treated like animals to be spoken over. He says he/we listen to every lie, slander etc. I guess he does. I guess he chooses not to listen to any reasoned argument against his point of view? 9min [we will vote against them and what they believe in] No constructive policies to offer? Like a spoilt teenager: "Nah, dont want X. Nah, dont want Y. Nah, dont want. You`re always getting at me."
" In the free and healthy society we want…people with [their] mindset should be kept away" … No tolerance or democracy on view here it seems.
Seems to me there are arguments on both sides. Someone like this refusing to listen to those with concerns for the country`s future is a step towards a nasty uncaring type of UK. Not the UK I grew up in, where people could disagree without getting so irate about perceived slurs.
For what its worth I dont think the majority of Leavers are as anti-democratic as this man.
Out means out…simples. Next time there’s a general election and the winning party doesn’t stick 100% to their manifesto pledges and doesn’t explain every detail of their manifesto in great detail prior to the vote then lets all demand a second general election when we don’t agree on parts of their policies. I know what the establishment would do in that case and it wouldn’t be a second general election!
Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.
Personally I do care what my fellow citizens think.
And I am surprised if you, Juddian, really dont care. Honestly, you dont care about living in a country where all get to speak?
So long as you remain in a majority in all matters you may be OK, but when you find yourself in a minority you may get to think differently.
I always thought that the UK was a haven for tolerance and democracy. Not “the majority has voted for “X” therefore all dissent must be silenced”. That is the description of a totalitarian state. No, I can`t seriously believe you want that.
I have never, I think, called anyone who voted differently to me stupid, for their choices.
What an angry man Pat Condell is:
He starts by trying to split the country into “us and them”. Points out the differences in the two ways to view the situation rather than see us a common nationality trying to muddle our way forward. He moans about being branded one way, whilst lumping all opposing views as elitist, useless, unemployable, fools. He complains about his side being misrepresented, whilst misrepresenting his opponents…
EU propaganda in schools? What?
Never heard a bad word about the EU from a school teacher? Not me its true. But then I quit school before the EU existed so it isnt very likely really is it?
Teachers worried about EU funding he suggests? Impossible, we dont get any benefits from the EU do we? Then a nice bit of him raising the ire of those who feel aggrieved at the press. He suggests the press think of Leavers as being treated like animals to be spoken over. He says he/we listen to every lie, slander etc. I guess he does. I guess he chooses not to listen to any reasoned argument against his point of view? 9min [we will vote against them and what they believe in] No constructive policies to offer? Like a spoilt teenager: "Nah, dont want X. Nah, dont want Y. Nah, dont want. You`re always getting at me."
" In the free and healthy society we want…people with [their] mindset should be kept away" … No tolerance or democracy on view here it seems.
Seems to me there are arguments on both sides. Someone like this refusing to listen to those with concerns for the country`s future is a step towards a nasty uncaring type of UK. Not the UK I grew up in, where people could disagree without getting so irate about perceived slurs.
For what its worth I dont think the majority of Leavers are as anti-democratic as this man.
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.
robbo99.:
Out means out…simples. Next time there’s a general election and the winning party doesn’t stick 100% to their manifesto pledges and doesn’t explain every detail of their manifesto in great detail prior to the vote then lets all demand a second general election when we don’t agree on parts of their policies. I know what the establishment would do in that case and it wouldn’t be a second general election!
Exactly. It will be shout, scream, jump up and down, stamp your foot, do what you like it won’t make a blind bit of difference. But this is different of course because it is the Estalishment that doesn’t like the outcome of the vote. As Pat Condell says " They think that they know better than we do what we want". Just like they won’t ever even contemplate any kind of vote on bringing back hanging or the Birch, because they think they are better than us and only their opinions count.
GasGas:
But the rest will come true on the glorious morn of Brexit day…we can sit down and enjoy a full English Brexit breakfast consisting of hormone-laden American Spam and powdered egg. It will remind us of the glorious days in the 1940s when we had food rationing and our boys were giving Jerry what for.
Tally ho!
Three cheers for bonking Boris
And there ladies and gentlemen is a brainwashed fool incapable of thinking for themselves who believes everything they’re told. I bet you also believed back in 2016 there would be a recession and half a million job losses when the newspapers told you what to think.
Phew,that was a close one.
Never mind,it went right over, so no harm done!!
Carryfast:
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.
OK, then lets try to get this right. No where have I argued for a second referendum. No where have I said that an Exit vote was anti-democratic. I am unhappy about the out vote. And am even unhappier about the way it is being delivered. I did say that this guy has some anti-democratic views although he self describes as a popular democrat. I would have preferred it if we had decided to stay in the EU, which YOU describe as a Federation, although that is NOT a universally held opinion of its form. That doesn`t mean that I am massive fan of every aspect of it.
In the world I live in I rarely have a Black/White opinion on matters. Unfortunately we have to make binary choices at the ballot box.
discoman:
More scaremongering by the remain … who cares if you need a IDP, the sad thing is the UK government are weak and will not enforce it to EU drivers. It’s rather pathetic really, just get on with no deal and move on.
Carryfast:
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.
OK, then lets try to get this right. I would have preferred it if we had decided to stay in the EU, which YOU describe as a Federation, although that is NOT a universally held opinion of its form. That doesn`t mean that I am massive fan of every aspect of it.
In the world I live in I rarely have a Black/White opinion on matters. Unfortunately we have to make binary choices at the ballot box.
How is a government system,that relies on a commissioner politburo and a majority vote among the group of states and the resulting decisions of which then apply throughout the whole group without right of opt out of any, supposedly not the definition of a Federation/Union of states ruled by Federal government.
Carryfast:
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.
OK, then lets try to get this right. I would have preferred it if we had decided to stay in the EU, which YOU describe as a Federation, although that is NOT a universally held opinion of its form. That doesn`t mean that I am massive fan of every aspect of it.
In the world I live in I rarely have a Black/White opinion on matters. Unfortunately we have to make binary choices at the ballot box.
How is a government system,that relies on a commissioner politburo and a majority vote among the group of states and the resulting decisions of which then apply throughout the whole group without right of opt out of any, supposedly not the definition of a Federation/Union of states ruled by Federal government.
Were we forced to do away with passport control as part of Schengen?
Were we forced into the Euro zone against our will?
Both cases we opted out.
Did we have to accept so many East Euro workers into our country so early on?
In that case our National Government chose to do so although the rest of the EU didn’t.
It’s more complicated than sticking a label on something, and then deciding if something is good or bad because of that label.
The world is not full of simple good or bad choices. (Although ballots are presented this way). We as humans look at a choice, and try to arrive at a decision based on the evidence* presented. We try to be sensible and rational. Bloody difficult when given lots of info, in complicated and intertwined issues.
But then after we decide we tend to defend and stand by our choice, maybe in the face of evidence.
We admire those who have the “courage of their convictions” or “stand by their guns”.
Maybe we’d better look to those who “give others a fair hearing” or “can see both sides of the argument”; rather than will “stand and argue that black is white”!
*oftimes the evidence is presented by biased parties determined to get only one point of view across.
… (with all the belly achers put to rest, and banged to rights I reckon… 
)
