P Stoff:
So this week I earned the same as last week by doing 34 hours instead of 55. In fairness to him it’s his own product and not general haulage. It lasts about 15 weeks. More companies need to adopt this. In return he has no hassle
What, give guys 55 hours pay for 34 hours work? That’s exactly what they are determined not to do, and that’s the root of all their problems.
Rjan:
P Stoff:
So this week I earned the same as last week by doing 34 hours instead of 55. In fairness to him it’s his own product and not general haulage. It lasts about 15 weeks. More companies need to adopt this. In return he has no hassleWhat, give guys 55 hours pay for 34 hours work? That’s exactly what they are determined not to do, and that’s the root of all their problems.
I’ve got a decorator coming in week after next, instead of the 2.3k I’m paying him, shall I give him 3k?
As for drivers, when I can get the customers to pay say another £100 a day, I’ll pass it on.
kcrussell25:
I always took basic kit even on a day run. Just in case of a breakdown, it did happen
If you’re a travelling salesman or a boss travelling to a meeting, you don’t carry a sleeping bag and food in case the car breaks down do you? You carry a phone. 
albion:
Rjan:
P Stoff:
So this week I earned the same as last week by doing 34 hours instead of 55. In fairness to him it’s his own product and not general haulage. It lasts about 15 weeks. More companies need to adopt this. In return he has no hassleWhat, give guys 55 hours pay for 34 hours work? That’s exactly what they are determined not to do, and that’s the root of all their problems.
I’ve got a decorator coming in week after next, instead of the 2.3k I’m paying him, shall I give him 3k?
As for drivers, when I can get the customers to pay say another £100 a day, I’ll pass it on.
Indeed, and clearly your customers will pay if the consequences of paying too little are passed on to them, as in P Stoff’s case.
If planners or TMs were told an hour before home time that they weren’t going home that night but staying on a camp bed in the loading bay , no you can’t go home to get stuff or pick the kids up etc , they would create merry hell .
So why would they think that it’s acceptable to expect a day run driver to stay out at short notice when they knew hours before.
Many in the office get upset because they have failed to do their jobs , failed to plan and failed to manage .
They are great at pointing out a drivers shortcomings but hate it if the positions are reversed . Most are Teflon coated so blame never sticks .
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Rjan:
kcrussell25:
I always took basic kit even on a day run. Just in case of a breakdown, it did happenIf you’re a travelling salesman or a boss travelling to a meeting, you don’t carry a sleeping bag and food in case the car breaks down do you? You carry a phone.
Yes thats fine for them as they are not limited for time. If I breakdown an hour from the yard with only 1.5 hours left there isn’t time for someone to come and swap with me and me to return to the yard.
albion:
Rjan:
P Stoff:
So this week I earned the same as last week by doing 34 hours instead of 55. In fairness to him it’s his own product and not general haulage. It lasts about 15 weeks. More companies need to adopt this. In return he has no hassleWhat, give guys 55 hours pay for 34 hours work? That’s exactly what they are determined not to do, and that’s the root of all their problems.
I’ve got a decorator coming in week after next, instead of the 2.3k I’m paying him, shall I give him 3k?
As for drivers, when I can get the customers to pay say another £100 a day, I’ll pass it on.
I think by the sound of it in your case Albion you are treating your people fairly. I think in my case he has weighed up what he can pay and in fairness to him he did say that on reflection the guy they did have they could have paid him more and didn’t realise what they had. Sadly due to a medical condition he has had to pack up. I have also said to him if a long term replacement happens to appear, then with a couple of weeks notice I will stand aside. It’s called working together and being realistic. I have also said that as the job involves four days if for some reason he hasn’t got work for one day as long as he keeps me in the loop I will do a day on agency or look for another seat for that day. He also countered that if that happened and I couldn’t find a day’s work he will cover the day. So rare as it is you have two people working together. Oh if there was more of that.
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grumpyken52:
If planners or TMs were told an hour before home time that they weren’t going home that night but staying on a camp bed in the loading bay , no you can’t go home to get stuff or pick the kids up etc , they would create merry hell .
So why would they think that it’s acceptable to expect a day run driver to stay out at short notice when they knew hours before.
Many in the office get upset because they have failed to do their jobs , failed to plan and failed to manage .
They are great at pointing out a drivers shortcomings but hate it if the positions are reversed . Most are Teflon coated so blame never sticks .Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Hi Ken,
But surely planners and managers don’t have nights out as a job risk. They can just drive home unless snowed in or slipping a crippler into the office secretary.
Suppose my tramping perspective blinkers my opinion a bit but can’t believe anyone would do class 1 and not be prepared for the possibility of a night out in a truck.
grumpyken52:
So why would they think that it’s acceptable to expect a day run driver to stay out at short notice
Coz he said he was happy to do a night out or two 
Most of you moaning about oh he’s a class 1 he should expect it blah blah blah ,miss the point .
Yes he did nights out occasionally, I bet with plenty of notice so as stated he could provide supplies , but telling him that he was staying out when they knew before he did the collection is taking the pee , and by the sounds of it was not the only way they were messing him about .
As with all business in this country the biggest weakness is in management and administration. Apart from a relatively few TMs or O licence holders most have no qualifications or training for what they do . The vast majority are certainly not under any restrictions for their working practices.
Most have never been on even basic management courses .
Many are even too stupid to realise that if they treat drivers like crap they end up with crap drivers .
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Dipper_Dave:
Suppose my tramping perspective blinkers my opinion a bit but can’t believe anyone would do class 1 and not be prepared for the possibility of a night out in a truck.
Indeed Dave - this is the same guy that was complaining about the amount of hours he was working in another thread . At some stage he must have realised that sooner or later it was all going to go wrong - weather that was a breakdown , or a delay when loading or whatever. If your maxing your hours you would have to be pretty stupid if you think your not going to have to end up on a night out expected or not . That being the case why would you not take steps to make sure your prepared for it . At the very least stick 2 or 3 £20 notes in the back of your wallet and forget they are there . If needs be you can buy a duvet and a meal and a pack of baby wipes for a freshen up in the morning . Otherwise get a rucksack stick a duvet and a sheet in it along with a change of clothes and a wash kit into it . A 24 hour services or a shop will get you enough to get by till you get home or get back to civilisation .
beefy4605:
Dipper_Dave:
Suppose my tramping perspective blinkers my opinion a bit but can’t believe anyone would do class 1 and not be prepared for the possibility of a night out in a truck.Indeed Dave - this is the same guy that was complaining about the amount of hours he was working in another thread . At some stage he must have realised that sooner or later it was all going to go wrong - weather that was a breakdown , or a delay when loading or whatever. If your maxing your hours you would have to be pretty stupid if you think your not going to have to end up on a night out expected or not . That being the case why would you not take steps to make sure your prepared for it . At the very least stick 2 or 3 £20 notes in the back of your wallet and forget they are there . If needs be you can buy a duvet and a meal and a pack of baby wipes for a freshen up in the morning . Otherwise get a rucksack stick a duvet and a sheet in it along with a change of clothes and a wash kit into it . A 24 hour services or a shop will get you enough to get by till you get home or get back to civilisation .
So you spend £60 of your own money because it’s gone ■■■■.
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kcrussell25:
Rjan:
kcrussell25:
I always took basic kit even on a day run. Just in case of a breakdown, it did happenIf you’re a travelling salesman or a boss travelling to a meeting, you don’t carry a sleeping bag and food in case the car breaks down do you? You carry a phone.
Yes thats fine for them as they are not limited for time. If I breakdown an hour from the yard with only 1.5 hours left there isn’t time for someone to come and swap with me and me to return to the yard.
I’d just call it exceptional circumstances and keep clear records of the event. After all, breakdowns do not inevitably hit at the end of the day - the only two remote breakdowns I can recall have both been fixed within time to return to base, and it was the load that therefore spent the night in the wagon, not me.
In one of those cases, I foolishly drove the wagon when it was already showing symptoms in the yard in the morning, and took a mechanic’s reassurance on it. 
At any rate, it’s certainly too remote a risk to be hauling around gear for - if anything, doing so creates the real risk that bosses will think you’re a belt-and-braces man and therefore they don’t need to plan a day shift sensibly, or even the risk that they will not send a mechanic out-of-hours in the event a breakdown does occur.
beefy4605:
Dipper_Dave:
Suppose my tramping perspective blinkers my opinion a bit but can’t believe anyone would do class 1 and not be prepared for the possibility of a night out in a truck.Indeed Dave - this is the same guy that was complaining about the amount of hours he was working in another thread . At some stage he must have realised that sooner or later it was all going to go wrong - weather that was a breakdown , or a delay when loading or whatever. If your maxing your hours you would have to be pretty stupid if you think your not going to have to end up on a night out expected or not . That being the case why would you not take steps to make sure your prepared for it . At the very least stick 2 or 3 £20 notes in the back of your wallet and forget they are there . If needs be you can buy a duvet and a meal and a pack of baby wipes for a freshen up in the morning . Otherwise get a rucksack stick a duvet and a sheet in it along with a change of clothes and a wash kit into it . A 24 hour services or a shop will get you enough to get by till you get home or get back to civilisation .
If you yourself are pushing the firm to max your hours constantly, then obviously even if the place runs like clockwork you’re going to have to accept the risk of an occasional night out, but I don’t think most companies would fairly describe such a pattern as “day work” or as the sort of work that you’d hire a day man for - you’d be honest with guys and say “we’re going to squeeze your hours til the pips squeak and there’s a regular risk of nights out at the last minute”.
I remember one guy in particular raising hell that he never saw his wife and kids, so the planners cut him back, and the very first day he finished after 10 hour shift he was up in arms, complaining that he was expecting the overtime and night-out money that particular week. No pleasing some people.
Dipper_Dave:
grumpyken52:
Suppose my tramping perspective blinkers my opinion a bit but can’t believe anyone would do class 1 and not be prepared for the possibility of a night out in a truck.
Depends Dave. If I had an allocated unit or even just one I shared with a night man, I would keep a sleeping bag or whatever on the top bunk just in case.
However, they don’t make any effort to keep us in the same unit at my place. The units have a different driver every day & night, they get hammered and as a result the units are mostly grot inside & I quite simply would not sleep in one unless it was exceptional circumstances.
Otherwise the way I see it, if they plan me long days they do it at their own risk because if I get held up and run out of hours they are coming to get me or paying a hotel bill. Either that or they allocate me a unit I can keep nice for such eventualities.
P Stoff:
So you spend £60 of your own money because it’s gone ■■■■.
Nope - I accept the fact it can go wrong and that sometimes I am dissadvantaged and sometimes my boss is . I have the kit in the lorry .
I was reffering to these "day men "that cry because they get caught for a night out with no supplies . You may end up doing an unplanned night out - theres no excuse for not being prepared for one . If you read my post thats what I said - carry the money or carry the kit - its your choice . You can also leave as this guy has done or you can do the night out in the cold with nothing to eat . I prefer to be warm with a full belly .
P Stoff:
albion:
Rjan:
P Stoff:
So this week I earned the same as last week by doing 34 hours instead of 55. In fairness to him it’s his own product and not general haulage. It lasts about 15 weeks. More companies need to adopt this. In return he has no hassleWhat, give guys 55 hours pay for 34 hours work? That’s exactly what they are determined not to do, and that’s the root of all their problems.
I’ve got a decorator coming in week after next, instead of the 2.3k I’m paying him, shall I give him 3k?
As for drivers, when I can get the customers to pay say another £100 a day, I’ll pass it on.
I think by the sound of it in your case Albion you are treating your people fairly. I think in my case he has weighed up what he can pay and in fairness to him he did say that on reflection the guy they did have they could have paid him more and didn’t realise what they had. Sadly due to a medical condition he has had to pack up. I have also said to him if a long term replacement happens to appear, then with a couple of weeks notice I will stand aside. It’s called working together and being realistic. I have also said that as the job involves four days if for some reason he hasn’t got work for one day as long as he keeps me in the loop I will do a day on agency or look for another seat for that day. He also countered that if that happened and I couldn’t find a day’s work he will cover the day. So rare as it is you have two people working together. Oh if there was more of that.
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That’s what we try to do, meet in the middle with the drivers. Just annoys me that in Rjans eyes, every boss is out to screw their staff. 
Doesn’t this issue and the debate and comments that follow on this thread hit at the heart of what is fundamentally wrong with the industry?
The long and short of it is that the driver has a fundamental right to be treated with respect, and not be the victim of cunning game playing, that benefits the business in the short term, but not the driver who has to eke out a night in a tin box with possibly no food and bedding. If the job is short notice, and is so lucrative, then there has to be enough in the rate to get the driver into the nearest Travelodge.
What other line of business or industry treats their workers like this? Why act like this, when it is so corrosive to morale? What is wrong with a happy and motivated workforce? Seems to me that some are hell-bent on making a drivers role as miserable a post as it can possibly be.
Another aspect of this is the ‘too macho’ trucking brigade. The fact that some view this job as a ‘lifestyle’ is beyond me. I have never met anybody, in any other trade who would consider giving up a social life, sport and family for a job. They then have the audacity to sneer at anybody who is not ‘living the dream’ in the cab like them. Like most of the older drivers on here, I have done my years doing the hard miles, and would not do it again, or make anybody do it, if they did not want to. So fair-play to the OP for standing his ground.
albion:
That’s what we try to do, meet in the middle with the drivers. Just annoys me that in Rjans eyes, every boss is out to screw their staff.
I’m not so hard line. 
But I have to say counter-examples are few, and flagrant examples are many. I wouldn’t expect it to be otherwise, because fairness and generosity cost money (as do many other desirable qualities), and the competitive market (which so much political policy and deregulation of late has been designed to encourage) exists to drive out all those qualities from the marketplace (either by hurting profits until bosses who would like to be fair or generous accept new ways, or by literally bankrupting bosses who won’t change their ways, so that people with those convictions are over time eliminated from the boss class and exploitation reigns).
The people who most naturally fit into that role are shafters by nature who don’t face a moral challenge in the first place - and there are plenty of these about - but of course even for those that do, the relations of competition dictate that you either shaft in the marketplace or be shafted. In a market with a welter of suppliers and chains of subcontractors (as typically characterises haulage, though perhaps not every crack and corner of it), it only takes one large commercial customer to be determined to shaft suppliers upstream, and to manage to yoke several of them into competition with one another, that any standards amongst those upstream suppliers will be driven down, and recalcitrants driven out of the marketplace.
P Stoff’s anecdote demonstrates that. The person hiring him did not set out to ask what he could afford to pay, or what was fair to pay in consideration of the productivity and profits of the operation, but how little he could get away with paying, keeping the rest for himself. It was only when he felt the pain of hiring someone at less than 2/3 the going rate of a good worker, that he decided that he had kept far too much for himself, and that the pay had to go up significantly - and evidently, his resources allowed him to do so without much quibble. He did not change because he saw the light, but because he felt the heat.
Janos:
Another aspect of this is the ‘too macho’ trucking brigade. The fact that some view this job as a ‘lifestyle’ is beyond me. I have never met anybody, in any other trade who would consider giving up a social life, sport and family for a job. They then have the audacity to sneer at anybody who is not ‘living the dream’ in the cab like them. Like most of the older drivers on here, I have done my years doing the hard miles, and would not do it again, or make anybody do it, if they did not want to. So fair-play to the OP for standing his ground.
I think for many, this perspective was forged in the days when you could find the rates and conditions that you wanted, regulations were fewer, plans less chaotic, you generally knew what you were doing ahead of time, most guys had an assigned wagon, there was a settled set of faces at work, and you had a stack of A-Zs and you were left to get on with the job during the day. And like frogs sitting in water slowly brought to the boil, they haven’t noticed the temperature change.