Carryfast:
It’s obvious that the burqa among other examples is associated with medieval radical Islamic practices which are meant to subjugate women,often under the implicit if not all too real threat of violence and which therefore has no place within western society.IE either live here under the type of civilised cultural rules which applied in pre Islamic revolutionary Iran for example,or move to a radical Islamic country like Iran,Saudi or Pakistan etc.Calling that view ‘closed minded’ is obviously an oxymoron.
So trying to cut through another one of your rants, are you saying forcing certain codes of dress on people has no place in a modern tolerant society?
In the case of radical Islamic dress code and the obvious motivation behind it ( subjugation of women ) being enforced on UK streets yes.As I said if they want that then zb off to Iran or Saudi.
So like Islamic states and those who want to get Grid Girls banned and Countries like Germany and France, you believe bans are ok as long as they fit with your views?
Carryfast:
In the case of radical Islamic dress code and the obvious motivation behind it ( subjugation of women ) being enforced on UK streets yes.As I said if they want that then zb off to Iran or Saudi.
So like Islamic states and those who want to get Grid Girls banned and Countries like Germany and France, you believe bans are ok as long as they fit with your views?
How could/should we possibly apply any other ‘view’ than Sharia laws including Saudi or Iranian type Islamic dress code being forced on women don’t/can’t apply here.If anyone wants to live under Sharia then zb off to Saudi or Iran or Pakistan.Also don’t see any inconsistency with that and supporting the idea of grid girls doing whatever they want to do.It’s called a culture clash which is why we’re supposed to have national borders to denote the differences in those cultures.
It’s interesting to note when ISIS roll into town, one of the first things they do is to tell the women to shroud, er cover up. It’s also interesting to note that many moderate muslim scholars decry the veil as ‘a medieval rag’.
Personally I can’t stand them, they de-humanise someone too much. A face tells you so much without speaking, a face communicates and gives you an identity and a personality. Otherwise you are just an amorphous blob. I don’t buy into the idea that a woman is empowered by the veil; it’s original purpose was to protect a man’s property and to cloak a woman so that her identity was erased.
If you want a more integrated society then veiling with either the niqab or burqa is not the way forward. My gut feeling is that people are becomeing less bothered by the colour of someone’s skin, than the separation they feel on a cultural basis.
As to whether they should be banned, I veer to libertarianism so the answer has to be no, but if a ban came in I really couldn’t care less.
Also agree with Johnson, it does look like a letterbox.
Boris only said what the majority of people in this country think.
The only ones who were ‘‘offended’’ were those who take offence on any ■■■■ thing going, and who are stifling the opinion of the British public because they are given too much creedance and credibility by the powers that be instead of being told to shut the ■■■■ up.
Carryfast:
How could/should we possibly apply any other ‘view’ than Sharia laws including Saudi or Iranian type Islamic dress code being forced on women don’t/can’t apply here.If anyone wants to live under Sharia then zb off to Saudi or Iran or Pakistan.
But we don’t force an Islamic dress code on women, we give people freedom of choice, if Islamic women don’t like being forced to wear Burka and wish to break free then we as a society should offer them the support and protection of the law to make those choices, but not try to force them not to wear it by banning it.
Banning a certain type of clothing is surely something a totalitarian regime would do, which as we’ve seen rarely works in the long term and those people subjugated normally kick back eventually.
For decades the Soviet Union forced it doctrine on its people and what did those people really desire, Western goods, music and films, the very things they weren’t allowed to have, the very things the state tried to stop them having.
Women in Iran are risking life and limb, trying to break free from the very system that is forcing them to abide by Islamic law, by refusing to wear the headscarves in public.
The more you force people, the more you ban things the more counter productive it becomes.
Carryfast:
Also don’t see any inconsistency with that and supporting the idea of grid girls doing whatever they want to do.It’s called a culture clash which is why we’re supposed to have national borders to denote the differences in those cultures.
I do it’s all about freedom (or as much as practically possible) to choose the way we live our lives without intererance from Goverment and busybodies.
I don’t agree with the principle of the Burka, or like seeing women wearing it on our streets, as much as others don’t like Grid Girls, but I don’t see why I should have the right to call for a ban, as I don’t see why others should want to ban Grid Girls.
Carryfast:
How could/should we possibly apply any other ‘view’ than Sharia laws including Saudi or Iranian type Islamic dress code being forced on women don’t/can’t apply here.If anyone wants to live under Sharia then zb off to Saudi or Iran or Pakistan.
But we don’t force an Islamic dress code on women, we give people freedom of choice, if Islamic women don’t like being forced to wear Burka and wish to break free then we as a society should offer them the support and protection of the law to make those choices, but not try to force them not to wear it by banning it.
Banning a certain type of clothing is surely something a totalitarian regime would do, which as we’ve seen rarely works in the long term and those people subjugated normally kick back eventually.
For decades the Soviet Union forced it doctrine on its people and what did those people really desire, Western goods, music and films, the very things they weren’t allowed to have, the very things the state tried to stop them having.
Women in Iran are risking life and limb, trying to break free from the very system that is forcing them to abide by Islamic law, by refusing to wear the headscarves in public.
The more you force people, the more you ban things the more counter productive it becomes.
Carryfast:
Also don’t see any inconsistency with that and supporting the idea of grid girls doing whatever they want to do.It’s called a culture clash which is why we’re supposed to have national borders to denote the differences in those cultures.
I do it’s all about freedom (or as much as practically possible) to choose the way we live our lives without intererance from Goverment and busybodies.
I don’t agree with the principle of the Burka, or like seeing women wearing it on our streets, as much as others don’t like Grid Girls, but I don’t see why I should have the right to call for a ban, as I don’t see why others should want to ban Grid Girls.
It’s not about removing the freedom to wear it.It’s all about removing the freedom for radical Islam to impose the sharia culture which creates the ‘need’ to wear it on our streets.IE removal of the freedom to practice radical Islamic medieval sharia type practices at all here not specifically removing the freedom to wear a bleedin burqa.That would just be part of it.
While let’s get this right your idea of ‘freedom’ is to provide the freedom here to impose Sharia law in whatever form on women.But,just to provide a bit of balance,if those women are brave ( stupid ) enough to risk the inevitable reprisals you’ll also provide them with ‘support’ to break free from it if they choose to say no. Isn’t that the same type of hearts and minds approach applied by the Brit army in Afghan and Iraq.That went well.Except you want to go one better by inviting it onto our streets here.
Meanwhile in the real world.This is the savage medieval retarded culture which you want to provide the same freedoms as we apply to bleedin pit girls.It’s anyone’s guess where/how you make the connection. When the correct analogy is that we rightly wrecked the nazis freedom to practice by smashing it in its own back yard.Let alone inviting it into our own country and saying it’s ok do as you like but if you feel like changing your minds let us know.Islamo fascism being no different to ■■■■ fascism in that regard.
A long time ago when we could laugh with comedians if we wanted to. Bernard Manning said Burqua or KKK shroud ,whats the difference its a different coloured sheet.
windrush:
If you ban the Burkha (a religous symbol) then ban the Turban and the outfit that Orthodox Jews wear as they are both symbols of that peoples religion as well? In the fifties and sixties when I was growing up women were wearing the Burkha in Britain and although it looked strange to us there was never a big issue made about it. As usual it has been blown out of all proportion by the media because of one, (admittedly for somebody in Boris’s position), stupid comment and he should have known better really.
Pete.
The idea that the streets of 1960’s or even 70’s Britain were awash with Burqa wearing women or Saudi backed mosques is up there with the idea that the new or used car market was awash with punters looking for fwd BMC motors.
Feel free to post any contemporary photographic evidence to back the claim.
Not “awash” as you put it but there were still some around when I was young, (though maybe I’m wrong and they were actually the Berkshire branch of the KluKluxKlan?) yes they stood out from the crowd but folk became used to seeing them just the same as seeing Seikhs wearing their turbans. I have no pics for you to peruse alas Carryfast, I didn’t carry a camera to school! No harm in it, it is their method of dress and to me it is good that Britain can embrace these different types of dress as in many countries there are strict dress codes which to me is a rather outdated way of thinking? I can’t understand what all the fuss is about really, my mother has a carer wearing one and says she is a nice lady who is better at her job than many of her ‘White British’ carers. In this area there are none, infact there is only one ‘non white’ family that I know of, but the large towns will possibly have a few.
Oh, and in the 60’/70’s I was working for a BMC dealership and we sold plenty of new and used fwd cars, pickups and vans, especially Wolseley 18/85’s
Carryfast:
The idea that the streets of 1960’s or even 70’s Britain were awash with Burqa wearing women or Saudi backed mosques is up there with the idea that the new or used car market was awash with punters looking for fwd BMC motors.
Feel free to post any contemporary photographic evidence to back the claim.
Not “awash” as you put it but there were still some around when I was young, (though maybe I’m wrong and they were actually the Berkshire branch of the KluKluxKlan?) yes they stood out from the crowd but folk became used to seeing them just the same as seeing Seikhs wearing their turbans. I have no pics for you to peruse alas Carryfast, I didn’t carry a camera to school! No harm in it, it is their method of dress and to me it is good that Britain can embrace these different types of dress as in many countries there are strict dress codes which to me is a rather outdated way of thinking? I can’t understand what all the fuss is about really, my mother has a carer wearing one and says she is a nice lady who is better at her job than many of her ‘White British’ carers. In this area there are none, infact there is only one ‘non white’ family that I know of, but the large towns will possibly have a few.
Oh, and in the 60’/70’s I was working for a BMC dealership and we sold plenty of new and used fwd cars, pickups and vans, especially Wolseley 18/85’s
Pete.
In the absence of any photographic evidence we’ll just have to go by what we’ve got here in the form of the Paul Ghee etc topics.In which case I’d guess your fwd BMC’s fit my memory and the definition of ‘some’ not ‘plenty’.But as for finding ‘some’ burqa wearing women on the pavements let alone any Saudi funded mosques in any of the backgrounds I’ll keep looking.
Isn’t that the same type of hearts and minds approach applied by the Brit army in Afghan and Iraq.That went well.Except you want to go one better by inviting it onto our streets here.
When the correct analogy is that we rightly wrecked the nazis freedom to practice by smashing it in its own back yard.Let alone inviting it into our own country and saying it’s ok do as you like but if you feel like changing your minds let us know.Islamo fascism being no different to ■■■■ fascism in that regard.
