Paris show in 1974. Have translated with online translation so a bit hit and miss.
Click on pages twice for clearer view to read.
DEANB:
Paris show in 1974. Have translated with online translation so a bit hit and miss.
Click on pages for clearer view.
Very good, Dean! I’ve not seen this before… Interesting to see that MABO were involved with NGCs as early as '74. I wonder if the review was in a French magazine or a show brochure. Robert
A colleague has been in contact with a European truck photographer who, when taking pics of NGCs on the Continent many years ago spotted two white-coloured French NGC draw-bar outfits but was unable to get a picture of them. In consequence of this piece of news I have amended the last section of my register as follows.
Anecdotal evidence only: NGCs believed or rumoured to have existed, but for which documentary and / or photographic evidence is still awaited.
- Prooi, Barendrecht (NL) – NTC 335 / 9-sp Fuller 1977 4x2
- Goedkoop de Geus / Damco (NL) [not the Cees Willemstein one]
- Brame P, Wintzenheim (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
This makes me wonder if the picture (below) taken by POD Robinson may show one of these (I have hitherto assumed that this picture shows one of the five LWB units exported to Jeddah).
Robert
robert1952:
A colleague has been in contact with a European truck photographer who, when taking pics of NGCs on the Continent many years ago spotted two white-coloured French NGC draw-bar outfits but was unable to get a picture of them. In consequence of this piece of news I have amended the last section of my register as follows.Anecdotal evidence only: NGCs believed or rumoured to have existed, but for which documentary and / or photographic evidence is still awaited.
- Prooi, Barendrecht (NL) – NTC 335 / 9-sp Fuller 1977 4x2
- Goedkoop de Geus / Damco (NL) [not the Cees Willemstein one]
- Brame P, Wintzenheim (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
This makes me wonder if the picture (below) taken by POD Robinson may show one of these (I have hitherto assumed that this picture shows one of the five LWB units exported to Jeddah).
0
Robert
It’s more likely to be a rigid than a tractor unit Robert.The drive axle position seems all wrong for a long wheelbase unit.IE the fifth wheel mounting position can’t be behind the drive axle and if it’s ahead of it then the over hang is all wrong. 
The above coverage of the NGC at the Paris show is, I understand, from the magazine Le Poids Lourd No. 711 September 1974. I am very grateful to DEANB for posting the scans of this and the attendant advert. Cheers, Robert
There doe’s appear to be a lot of chassis behind the rear axle for a unit…
Carryfast:
robert1952:
A colleague has been in contact with a European truck photographer who, when taking pics of NGCs on the Continent many years ago spotted two white-coloured French NGC draw-bar outfits but was unable to get a picture of them. In consequence of this piece of news I have amended the last section of my register as follows.Anecdotal evidence only: NGCs believed or rumoured to have existed, but for which documentary and / or photographic evidence is still awaited.
- Prooi, Barendrecht (NL) – NTC 335 / 9-sp Fuller 1977 4x2
- Goedkoop de Geus / Damco (NL) [not the Cees Willemstein one]
- Brame P, Wintzenheim (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
- White-coloured draw-bar outfit (F)
This makes me wonder if the picture (below) taken by POD Robinson may show one of these (I have hitherto assumed that this picture shows one of the five LWB units exported to Jeddah).
0
Robert
It’s more likely to be a rigid than a tractor unit Robert.The drive axle position seems all wrong for a long wheelbase unit.IE the fifth wheel mounting position can’t be behind the drive axle and if it’s ahead of it then the over hang is all wrong.
The reason that I thought it would appear that this chassis was being readied at Sandbach to become one of the five tractive units with 5.34m wheelbases that were supplied to Falcon Freight’s Jeddah operation, was because Bill Fitzsimons, who worked for ERF as a field engineer told me that these were basically the same as the drawbar outfits supplied to Belgium and France, but they were given fifth-wheels and worked as artics. The reason for this was more to do with paperwork than practical concerns! However, it is just possible that this particular picture shows the chassis of one of two French draw-bar outfits spotted (but never snapped) by the Italian truck photographer mentioned above. Cheers, Robert
robert1952:
The reason that I thought it would appear that this chassis was being readied at Sandbach to become one of the five tractive units with 5.34m wheelbases that were supplied to Falcon Freight’s Jeddah operation, was because Bill Fitzsimons, who worked for ERF as a field engineer told me that these were basically the same as the drawbar outfits supplied to Belgium and France, but they were given fifth-wheels and worked as artics. The reason for this was more to do with paperwork than practical concerns! However, it is just possible that this particular picture shows the chassis of one of two French draw-bar outfits spotted (but never snapped) by the Italian truck photographer mentioned above. Cheers, Robert
It’s possible that they might have used the same ‘wheelbase’ as the rigid.But unlikely that it would work unless they also reduced the ‘overall’ length of the chassis behind the drive axle to that expected of a tractor unit.Thereby getting rid of that seemingly impossible unwanted proportion from fifth wheel mounting point to chassis overhang.IE logically a tractor unit won’t work with a rigid type over hang ‘behind’ the drive axle line.As it stands that photo either needs an even longer wheelbase relative to the overall length to get the correct fifth wheel mounting to rear of chassis measurement right.Or it needs a gas axe taken to the overhang.More likely it’s a drawbar prime mover.Than a tractor unit that seems unusable bearing in mind the length of all the unwanted chassis behind the drive axle and where the fifth wheel would be mounted. 
robert1952:
DEANB:
Paris show in 1974. Have translated with online translation so a bit hit and miss.
Click on pages for clearer view.Very good, Dean! I’ve not seen this before… Interesting to see that MABO were involved with NGCs as early as '74. I wonder if the review was in a French magazine or a show brochure. Robert
If they started manufacturing in 1973 Robert, they would have had to have got some dealers in place at the same time you would think.One to market them and also to sell them. Last paragraph,
bottom right hand side mentions CDB Belgium and this was from a small piece in Commercial motor 1974 covering the Earls court motor show.Therefore they no doubt had the dealers in place by the beginning of 1974.(Click on page twice to read.)
Unfortunately no pictures in magazine.
DEANB:
robert1952:
DEANB:
Paris show in 1974. Have translated with online translation so a bit hit and miss.
Click on pages for clearer view.7
6
5
4
3Very good, Dean! I’ve not seen this before… Interesting to see that MABO were involved with NGCs as early as '74. I wonder if the review was in a French magazine or a show brochure. Robert
21
If they started manufacturing in 1973 Robert, they would have had to have got some dealers in place at the same time you would think.One to market them and also to sell them. Last paragraph,
bottom right hand side mentions CDB Belgium and this was from a small piece in Commercial motor 1974 covering the Earls court motor show.Therefore they no doubt had the dealers in place by the beginning of 1974.(Click on page twice to read.)
Unfortunately no pictures in magazine.0
That’s right, Dean. The only reason I raised an eyebrow was that although we knew MABO was in place by the time the NGC came along, early purchases in France seemed to come via CDB in Brussels. Early on this thread I mentioned that my then contact in France, Philippe, lived close to MABO and recalls seeing no ERFs there until the LHD B-series came along. Apparently they concentrated on American trucks (and Brit trucks with American engines). Our Belgian and Dutch contributors on here have given some more detailed accounts of MABO’s activities if you want to read around the subject. Cheers, Robert
robert1952:
DEANB:
robert1952:
DEANB:
Paris show in 1974. Have translated with online translation so a bit hit and miss.
Click on pages for clearer view.Very good, Dean! I’ve not seen this before… Interesting to see that MABO were involved with NGCs as early as '74. I wonder if the review was in a French magazine or a show brochure. Robert
If they started manufacturing in 1973 Robert, they would have had to have got some dealers in place at the same time you would think.One to market them and also to sell them. Last paragraph,
bottom right hand side mentions CDB Belgium and this was from a small piece in Commercial motor 1974 covering the Earls court motor show.Therefore they no doubt had the dealers in place by the beginning of 1974.(Click on page twice to read.)
Unfortunately no pictures in magazine.That’s right, Dean. The only reason I raised an eyebrow was that although we knew MABO was in place by the time the NGC came along, early purchases in France seemed to come via CDB in Brussels. Early on this thread I mentioned that my then contact in France, Philippe, lived close to MABO and recalls seeing no ERFs there until the LHD B-series came along. Apparently they concentrated on American trucks (and Brit trucks with American engines). Our Belgian and Dutch contributors on here have given some more detailed accounts of MABO’s activities if you want to read around the subject. Cheers, Robert
I see what you mean now Robert,yes MABO were selling Whites. Theres a small piece about it at the very end of the Erf report.(Click on page twice to make clearer)
DEANB:
I know its an imposter but its a cracking looking motor.New pic as far as i can remember.
0
You’re right there - it is a new picture of UGE 852R. Cheers! Robert
Carryfast:
robert1952:
The reason that I thought it would appear that this chassis was being readied at Sandbach to become one of the five tractive units with 5.34m wheelbases that were supplied to Falcon Freight’s Jeddah operation, was because Bill Fitzsimons, who worked for ERF as a field engineer told me that these were basically the same as the drawbar outfits supplied to Belgium and France, but they were given fifth-wheels and worked as artics. The reason for this was more to do with paperwork than practical concerns! However, it is just possible that this particular picture shows the chassis of one of two French draw-bar outfits spotted (but never snapped) by the Italian truck photographer mentioned above. Cheers, RobertIt’s possible that they might have used the same ‘wheelbase’ as the rigid.But unlikely that it would work unless they also reduced the ‘overall’ length of the chassis behind the drive axle to that expected of a tractor unit.Thereby getting rid of that seemingly impossible unwanted proportion from fifth wheel mounting point to chassis overhang.IE logically a tractor unit won’t work with a rigid type over hang ‘behind’ the drive axle line.As it stands that photo either needs an even longer wheelbase relative to the overall length to get the correct fifth wheel mounting to rear of chassis measurement right.Or it needs a gas axe taken to the overhang.More likely it’s a drawbar prime mover.Than a tractor unit that seems unusable bearing in mind the length of all the unwanted chassis behind the drive axle and where the fifth wheel would be mounted.
Agreed. That’s why I suspected it was one of the mystery 2 French draw-bar outfits. Robert
Shamara heavy haulage vehicle Q691NTR as far as we know then passed onto Raynor Plant of
Alfreton,Derbyshire. Was eventually scrapped at Roger Geesons scrapyard Hammersmith,Ripley.
DEANB:
Shamara heavy haulage vehicle Q691NTR as far as we know then passed onto Raynor Plant of
Alfreton,Derbyshire. Was eventually scrapped at Roger Geesons scrapyard Hammersmith,Ripley.
Absolutely magnificent detective work there, DEANB! And brilliant pics too! I’ve often wondered where Raynor Plant fitted into this vehicle’s history and now we know - excellent. The pic below (shown on this thread before) shows it at Roger Geesons yard in Ripley. Robert 
I’ve found some reference to Raynors on a short thread dating from 2009 - here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45147&start=0
However, all the photos have been taken down. One solitary piece of information appears vaguely useful: they went bust in 1991. Cheers, Robert
There were two NGCs that received Q-plates. Q691 NTR, as seen above, was converted from 4x2 to 6x4. Q824 RGC was converted from a 4x2 tractor to a breakdown lorry (recovery wagon, wrecker - call 'em what you will!). Q-plates were issued for rebuilds (including cut-and-shut conversions), as well as for second-hand imports and vehicles of indeterminate age. It would seem that the first reason applies to both these NGCs. Robert
^^That Raynor unit picture with the tipper trailer reminds me that the only other picture we have of an NGC with a tipper trailer is the Mentre outfit in the French advert up the page a bit. Robert
Looking at the white Drawbar / extended chassis unit above , whilst the cab & main chassis are reasonably clean, the part of grille containing ERF lettering is very marked / dirty & it also appears to be sitting on a set of slave wheels , or at least they do not appear to be as new looking as rest of vehicle 