Been some pretty interesting answers from some good posters to this topic, also a sprinkling of the idiots. If I were to sum it all up with my experience and knowledge I would add this. If you are an experienced driver that conducts his activities within the law and has consideration for other road users and care about the job, get the loads delivered to a given time scale and in good condition (whenever possible) then you may be considered a professional. If you hate your job and are completely disillusioned by it, then your in the wrong job. Myself I personally love my job, I am not interested in chasing money and giving myself stress, I have seen and experienced that side of the coin. I earn a decent enough living and am happy with my lot, I consider myself a professional driver, my wages however do not reflect my current profession and I am not expendable in the very sense of the meaning. Although we are all expendable.
Juddian:
Rjan:
Juddian:
[…] and most especially look after the customer who after all actually pays all of our wages,I tend to think of it as being the other way around, that I’m paying the customer’s wages (and their profits). We aren’t in a customer service industry where the aim is to help people enjoy themselves during their leisure time, and where what pleases the customer is not necessarily your exploitation and subservience (although a minority of customers may enjoy relating to waiters and receptionists in that fashion).
The supposed “customers” are bosses, and your idea of keeping the customer happy, allowed to go to its conclusion, is little different from getting on your knees in Max Clifford’s office.
So you’re effectively doing the customer a huge favour by carrying his goods, how’s that working out for you?
It’s working out no worse for me than the next worker, but then I represent myself as a driver who has a boss, not as a businessman who has any “customer” 
What part of the customer/supplier relationship don’t you get, customer chooses who supplies him customer pays supplier, customer gets premium product delivered in spotless vehicle and with/through spotless handling or supply equipment, on time and with safety in mind and respecting their receiving equipment premises and people, customers doesn’t look elsewhere when the supply can be relied on absolutely.
What part don’t you get that the value of my work in delivering the goods, is worth far more than the wages I’m paid? The customer doesn’t choose between the class of men who deliver the goods - they have the choice of a HGV driver or… a HGV driver. Or maybe a sailor or a railwayman, but I could also do those jobs I suppose, if there was a so-called “modal shift”.
The difference between us is that you primarily see other workers of your own class as being your main threat, whom you must out-do by currying favour with bosses. I see the bosses themselves as the main threat, because they are actually trying to out-do workers as a whole.
I often wonder at root whether the reason is that fundamentally a lot of workers fear the bosses, but they don’t fear their peers, and that is why workers are often more ready (at least until their worlds fall apart in war or total immiseration) to attack each other whilst admiring the power of bosses, than to challenge exploitative ringmasters who both set the terms of conflict and reap its greatest rewards. It’s why Donald Trump is seen as the Daddy for now - much as I suppose Hitler was by many.
Still trying to work out how you’re paying the customer’s wages
Perhaps you’re simply a bad machine that needs to go back to the factory then, but what I’d suggest is more likely is that you’re so focussed on counting the money value of your income, that you’ve forgotten to count the value of the work you render to your “customer”, and that in fact the larger flow of wealth is from you to the “customer”.
The reason why only the smaller sum, your wages, are evaluated on the invoice, is because you are on a need to know basis, and the bosses are not of the opinion that you need to know what your labour is worth, or even draw attention to the fact that it’s worth more to them than they pay you. Those are figures that are kept internally by accountants, analysts, and other well-paid and trusted professionals, and will rarely be disclosed outside the clique of bosses, and their professionals who compile and keep the figures.
If the idea of servicing the Max Cliffords of the world is appealing then by all means do whatever floats your boat, not for me but each to their own and all that, takes all sorts and we’re a broad church here.
It was you who wanted to keep the “customer” satisfied.
Sidevalve:
Rjan:
[…]Sounds to me like you’d be better employed as one of Jeremy Corbyn’s speechwriters than as a lorry driver.
Bless-ed are the lorry drivers
Here`s a question for anyone: are drivers wages related to the value of the work they do?
Does that apply to all types of drivers? What about transport of passengers? Doesn`t a bus driver who transports 40 people deserve 10 times the pay of a taxi driver who transports maybe 1 or 2, maybe 4?
Does a driver who carries a load of cigarettes valued at hundreds of thousands deserve more than a driver who carries 20tons of sand?
Do city traders who run computer programs moving millions of pounds deserve more or less than civil servants running computer programs analysing medical data sets to save lives?
Rjan:
Sidevalve:
Rjan:
[…]Sounds to me like you’d be better employed as one of Jeremy Corbyn’s speechwriters than as a lorry driver.
Bless-ed are the lorry drivers
That’s ruled you out for the speechwriter gig… you couldn’t possibly do that AND have a sense of humour! 
I will not try to make head nor tail of comrade Rjan’s last post answering me, save for this gem.
Rjan said
‘‘What part don’t you get that the value of my work in delivering the goods, is worth far more than the wages I’m paid?’’
Well in all honesty i, and my colleagues, who i don’t see as a threat (but then i don’t see through a socialists eyes of envy), get well paid enough ta very much for what we do.
We have a proper union in place who negotiates, on our behalf and involve the members in consultation, a wage rise for us every year without fail.
Maybe a bit consideration of the customer, leading to constant company expansion and healthy profits so enabling those annual pay rises , might be way forward for you.
It is possible to work with your bosses you know, it doesn’t have to be a battlefield with one side trying to outwit the other.
It’s not just skill, qualifications or how hard the job is, it’s also about the responsibility of driving 44t machine capable of carnage in the wrong hands. Keeping it safe but also legal. If a shelf stacker drops a bollock he gets a telling off we get a possible fine, points, license removed or even worse prison!!! Don’t want mega bucks wouldn’t mind, just want a little bit more!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Franglais:
Here`s a question for anyone: are drivers wages related to the value of the work they do?Does that apply to all types of drivers? What about transport of passengers? Doesn`t a bus driver who transports 40 people deserve 10 times the pay of a taxi driver who transports maybe 1 or 2, maybe 4?
Does a driver who carries a load of cigarettes valued at hundreds of thousands deserve more than a driver who carries 20tons of sand?Do city traders who run computer programs moving millions of pounds deserve more or less than civil servants running computer programs analysing medical data sets to save lives?
It’s like when some stars come on here trying to justify their crap wage 
…by saying
‘‘Well it aint hard work, what do you expect to be paid’’
When was there ever a direct corrolation between the amount you were paid, and how hard the work is.
If that was so, solicitors would be on minimum wage rate, and builder’s labourers would be on mega money in comparison.
Rjan:
because I’m paying their wages and creating their profits, remember, not the other way around. My work is a key factor in production; their contractual arrangements in which bosses recast themselves as my (and each other’s) “customers” are certainly not a key factor in getting work done.
.
You see this is what I was taking about, lorry drivers thinking they and no one else keeps companies afloat and the shelves stacked. We all need each other, we all work together to pay our wages. Your truck won’t be going anywhere without a planner, a TM, an accountant and you. No one employee is more important than the other imo.
frainglais asked does a driver deserve more money depending upon the value of the load.well I believe no. what you are paid for is to deliver the load from a to b safely and in the same condition as you collected it
as far as pay is concerned that is up to the individual. if you don’t like it move on. we don’t live in a dictatorship yet.
m.a.n rules:
frainglais asked does a driver deserve more money depending upon the value of the load.well I believe no. what you are paid for is to deliver the load from a to b safely and in the same condition as you collected it
as far as pay is concerned that is up to the individual. if you don’t like it move on. we don’t live in a dictatorship yet.
Very true, the value of the load is totally irrelevant, you are being paid to deliver goods regardless of it’s value, if we were paid in relation to the value of the load, there would be some drivers earning a lot less than others whilst doing the same job. The best you can expect from this job is gaining some respect from your employer, your customer & your colleagues thus at the same time the bonus of a stress free life. Enjoy the job for what it is and not worry about what it isn’t, as Einstein said " Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value".
m.a.n rules:
frainglais asked does a driver deserve more money depending upon the value of the load.well I believe no. what you are paid for is to deliver the load from a to b safely and in the same condition as you collected it
as far as pay is concerned that is up to the individual. if you don’t like it move on. we don’t live in a dictatorship yet.
Youre right. We dont live in a dictatorship.
We have the choice to reject working for a low wage. We can draw unemployment benefit until we find a job that suits our needs cant we? We wont be denied the benefits from the fund we`ve paid into will we??
UKtramp:
m.a.n rules:
frainglais asked does a driver deserve more money depending upon the value of the load.well I believe no. what you are paid for is to deliver the load from a to b safely and in the same condition as you collected it
as far as pay is concerned that is up to the individual. if you don’t like it move on. we don’t live in a dictatorship yet.Very true, the value of the load is totally irrelevant, you are being paid to deliver goods regardless of it’s value, if we were paid in relation to the value of the load, there would be some drivers earning a lot less than others whilst doing the same job. The best you can expect from this job is gaining some respect from your employer, your customer & your colleagues thus at the same time the bonus of a stress free life. Enjoy the job for what it is and not worry about what it isn’t, as Einstein said " Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value".
The argument UKtramp is using is (rightly or wrongly) absolutely at odds with the argument used by some of the highest paid in our society: City investment bankers take risks with multi millions of pounds every day. Not their own money. Because of this, and because they are very clever people (they tell us) they are obviously worth more than health workers. Because they move millions they are worth more. So using the logic of our (ultimate) company owners and employers shouldnt we ask for more for transporting gold rather than dust? In running computer programs it doesnt matter whether you`re shifting dollars or sickle cells the difficulty of the task is equal.
Juddian:
I will not try to make head nor tail of comrade Rjan’s last post answering me, save for this gem.Rjan said
‘‘What part don’t you get that the value of my work in delivering the goods, is worth far more than the wages I’m paid?’’Well in all honesty i, and my colleagues, who i don’t see as a threat (but then i don’t see through a socialists eyes of envy), get well paid enough ta very much for what we do.
We have a proper union in place who negotiates, on our behalf and involve the members in consultation, a wage rise for us every year without fail.
I don’t envy other workers - I am one.
And what would your attitude be to getting wage rises for other workers? Would you stand together then, or is it “I’m alright Jack”?
If another company was set up with, say, competent Eastern Europeans thinking themselves well-off working for less than you currently are, would you fight to make sure bosses pay them the same? Or would you let the bosses of the other firm undercut you then bemoan immigrants?
Because these are the key differences between the fascist and the socialist - the difference between who is seen as the trouble-causing outgroup, and who gets punished for the perceived wrongdoing of falling pay rates.
Maybe a bit consideration of the customer, leading to constant company expansion and healthy profits so enabling those annual pay rises
It is possible to work with your bosses you know, it doesn’t have to be a battlefield with one side trying to outwit the other.
That is always how it actually is with the bosses, however. Workers have in fact been outwitted - that’s why profits are flowing while workers haven’t seen a payrise in 10 years, amongst other things.
The only time it could be said bosses are not trying to outwit workers is when they cease to try and increase profits or lower wages, and even if some bosses refrain (either because they don’t see an opportunity or because they are indeed happy with the status quo of a work/wage bargain), in the free market there is always someone trying to set up shop to undercut, which will succeed in the absence of similarly active countermeasures by workers.
And to be clear, I don’t go to work to pick personal fights with my particular boss (unless there is an open assault on pay and conditions purely on local initiative rather than market conditions), because it is not generally individuals who occupy those roles who are the problem. By causing ructions in a single firm, I could even succeed in vanquishing it as a business, without making a dent in the fortunes of workers as a whole, because it does not strike at all bosses in the market at once.
switchlogic:
Rjan:
because I’m paying their wages and creating their profits, remember, not the other way around. My work is a key factor in production; their contractual arrangements in which bosses recast themselves as my (and each other’s) “customers” are certainly not a key factor in getting work done.
.You see this is what I was taking about, lorry drivers thinking they and no one else keeps companies afloat and the shelves stacked. We all need each other, we all work together to pay our wages. Your truck won’t be going anywhere without a planner, a TM, an accountant and you. No one employee is more important than the other imo.
Agreed, production requires cooperation. The point is who reaps the benefits and how consensual is the cooperation. Even slaves cooperate with their masters - not for their own keep and mutual development, but for the enrichment of the master
Rjan said
‘‘That is always how it actually is with the bosses, however. Workers have in fact been outwitted - that’s why profits are flowing while workers haven’t seen a payrise in 10 years, amongst other things.’’
Not big on reading are they, socialists that is, we’ve had a payrise every year, the staff worked hard, pleased those customers 
who themselves have grown, plus constant new customers , so the company has grown massively and the staff get good pay rises because the company appreciate the staff they have.
You’re stuck somewhere in the 70’s with Red Robbo, Derek Hatton and the rest of the suicide jockeys, the bosses are all capitalists and any profit is evil.
Profit is a good thing, it allows massive re-investment in equipment and expansion, which means the customer (yes that pesky bleeder again ) gets a better product ever more efficiently, which puts the company ahead of the competition.
As for foreign workers, yes we have a few foreign drivers, two Romanians i work with daily that couldn’t be better or more reliable fellow workers, good lads too, they’re on the same money as us obviously and they too appreciate the job they have, they aint going anywhere and fully intend to retire from this job many years from now.
Be my last post to you because i’m losing the will to live to be honest, have a good evening.
I’d argue that it’s not the job that bigs anything up - it’s the individual worker’s ability to perform any task that someone else isn’t prepared to do.
Even in City Dealer circles - no one wants to be on the Japan desk on sundays for example… So… The newbie who shows a willingness to “rough it” or even better - actually speaks Japanese and is quite happy to be starting work at 9pm on a sunday night, is going to be popular among other staff (“Phew. I thought they’d ask me to do it!”) and popular in getting the job in the first instance (“Hey, I thought I was going to have to go to Tokyo to find a Japanese speaker - and then beg them to come and work in London!”)
Now if you transfer that to Truckerworld - A driver who’s only prepared to work 8-10 hour shifts starting between 4am and 10am monday-friday are going to be Ten a Penny.
Thus, if you think you’re worth something - and you’ve got this “won’t do weekends this, and won’t work nights that” mindset, then yes. You are delusional and the OP is bang on the money. 
Winseer:
I’d argue that it’s not the job that bigs anything up - it’s the individual worker’s ability to perform any task that someone else isn’t prepared to do.Even in City Dealer circles - no one wants to be on the Japan desk on sundays for example… So… The newbie who shows a willingness to “rough it” or even better - actually speaks Japanese and is quite happy to be starting work at 9pm on a sunday night, is going to be popular among other staff (“Phew. I thought they’d ask me to do it!”) and popular in getting the job in the first instance (“Hey, I thought I was going to have to go to Tokyo to find a Japanese speaker - and then beg them to come and work in London!”)
Now if you transfer that to Truckerworld - A driver who’s only prepared to work 8-10 hour shifts starting between 4am and 10am monday-friday are going to be Ten a Penny.
Thus, if you think you’re worth something - and you’ve got this “won’t do weekends this, and won’t work nights that” mindset, then yes. You are delusional and the OP is bang on the money.
Yep. Not just the ability, but the willingness too; I’m the only one at our place who’ll night out, my choice, I’ve done it for years, got the kit and the right wagon to do it. The extra cash comes in useful and I don’t have to put up with the missus snoring every night. Consequently I get a lot more varied work than the other lads who won’t night out, and consequently I get messed around a lot less by the management. I’m pretty much the only one at our mill who’s got his “own” lorry and that suits me very nicely.
Recently our lot started delivering fertiliser, so I’ve also gained ADR ticket; admittedly I rarely have to use it but if this job ever goes mammaries skywards it enhances my chance of getting a decently paid job elsewhere, ditto the Moffett ticket.
I think all this be paid a certain wage because of the skill or not required in the job, misses the point, you and me are paid what the jobs market rate is, it’s down to supply and demand, if there was really a driver shortage and trucks were stood in yards with undelivered goods then companies would pay more to get drivers and companies who had enough drivers could charge more for guaranteed deliveries.
Some have said tanker drivers get paid more because they’re more skilled, I would say tanker drivers get paid more because traditionally they’ve stuck together.
As for delusional drivers, well Rjan must be one of the most, you’re not that important, if you didn’t do the job your boss can find plenty who will, and if you’ve upset the customers and think it’s ok as they need the goods, you’ll soon find that there are plenty of other companies willing to deliver those goods and your boss loses that work and maybe you lose you job.
Like it or not we live in an economic system where companies have to a make money to pay the wages of thier staff and make a profit to pay the shareholders who risk their money by investing in the business, the system is flawed, but so are the alternatives, even many communist countries realised they had to introduce an element of the free market as an incentive to make parts of the economy to grow.
As a committed Union member I believe in controls on the free market to protect workers from exploitation. I also believe these controls help good employers by stopping them being undercut by the bad employers, I think the system has been skewed to the employers favour and more controls are needed, but of course we are told we live in a global economy so we have to compete, which basically means loss of protections to make it easier to get rid of workers and cheaper to employ them, so we can compete with the lowest common denominator and countries where workers fight to protect thier rights are frowned upon. However saying all that I don’t believe the World owes me a living and I don’t begrudge an employer thier right to make a profit provided I’m fairly treated in the process.
UKtramp:
Ok so another edgy post and a good debate hopefully. Why do some drivers big the job up to be something it is not?
A driver who has spent all or most of his working life sat in a truck and now thinks he is worth a lot of money may well be delusional in this frame of thinking. It simply makes him/her a more employable driver, perhaps even a better driver than some other drivers, it gives very little return in monetary terms. Driving is a relatively easy job to do, the longer you do it for, the better at it you become like with any other job. Some aspects of the job require more skill than other aspects, I could mention tankers & car transporters purely as an example. An average EMPLOYED tramper will not be on much more than £12 per hour and even more will be less than £10 per hour. There is a reason for that, you are valuing yourself higher than the job description dictates.
I think you’re a low paid truck driver trying to justify himself by putting down others. While money is not everything in life it’s foolish to pretend it’s nothing so I’ve always gravitated towards well paying jobs, even before I was a truck driver. I’ve always sought out the best well paid jobs and done whatever is necessary to get into them.
It really doesn’t matter what I think i’m worth. I’m more concerned with what I’m getting now and it’s far more than the figures you’ve quoted here.
■■■■ it up buttercup