Rob K:
robroy:
Update…(if you’re mildly interested 
)
Still no joy getting past telephone oblivion 
with ACAS, so rang Union again to ask if it would be worth or relavent to write a letter after all this time seeing as I had genuinely just found out the protocol, to put on file that I disagree with revised contract clause.
Was told ‘No’ as I had already worked (unbeknown to me) under those terms for last 5/6 years.
If met with a charge at all in future told to contact them to arrange better terms or whatever, but basically I’ve [zb] in my nest for not doing it right away…(proving it does not pay just to roll over with these bastds, so take note!!. 
)
Can’t see been told different by acas.
Incidentally the driver who was deducted has had the charge quashed and been re.imbursed as it was proven there was no negligence or careless driving, so a result there anyway.
Good result robroy. Interesting to know about the problems with ACAS. Evidently not a simple case of “just ring ACAS” then when you have problems. I suppose it was to be expected as the same thing happens with the CAB as well. It’s impossible to contact them on the phone and in larger cities it’s a case of having to go see them in person, but you have to get there at the crack of dawn as they’re queueing down the street at 9am and then it’s a first come first served basis.
The wife rang them at 9am the other morning,.assuming that was start time, so that she would be first or so in queue, she was still told 10 to 20 minute queue even then.
Easier getting in touch with the dead.
If anybody else needs to know anything else though don’t let me put you off, they do point you (on the recorded message) to their ‘Help site’ but in my case it was non specific on the list.
As I said, I’m a bit wiser with it all now, …just wished I’d known at the time, …although tbh I think maybe I did hear stuff along those lines somewhere then, but I just put it down (wrongly as it turns out) to the usual old drivercrap. 
Also it appears in this situation of being billed for damage, as if guilt had to be proven to make things stick which is a good thing to bear in mind if it happens to anyone on here…stick to your guns.
Anyway thanks again for advice.
robroy:
Tracked down a (revised) contract btw, which says maximum charge of 500 quid 
(which is said apparentlly, to equate to their insurance excess)
Criteria for charges are proven negligence and/or carelessness
Hi Rob if this is fairly verbatim to how the clause is written my untrained legal brain now spots ‘Ambiguity’, thus I would say the clause is void and poorly written.
I thereby reccomend the court declares that no driver can be charged for damages and any driver previously charged should have their monies refunded + interest.
In fact this contract clause ambiguity triggers the application of the ‘contra proferentem’ rule. (No this isn’t a Harry potter spell and courts love a bit of Latin).
Whereby said ambiguity favours the employee.
[At this point I’d probably quote some previous legal cases and wait for the cheers and standing ovulations from the crowd that had gathered.]
Just guessing.
Think I’m going to get my law degree now as I’m quite well blessed in the legal dept.
Harry Monk:
The simple answer is for the driver to thieve as much as he can from the employer, e.g.by syphoning diesel out of the vehicle tank, stealing from the load etc until he has made the money back, with a bit on top for his trouble. 
Usually I’m completely against this kind of behaviour, but in a case such as this, absolutely spot on Harry.
I’m the type of bloke that would do an extra load when I wanted to go home to help the firm out, paid of course, but ■■■■ me for money and I will make your life a misery. I once lost a bonus for too much idling by 1%, even though my truck had sat outside the workshop all day idling as the fitters tried to diagnose a fault, it cost me $200 or so, I disputed it, but it fell on deaf ears, from that moment on I started the truck when I got to work and never turned it off until I got back from a trip, it would have been far cheaper for them to have paid me my bonus, but they chose to ■■■■ me over instead, so they brought it upon themselves.
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newmercman:
Harry Monk:
The simple answer is for the driver to thieve as much as he can from the employer, e.g.by syphoning diesel out of the vehicle tank, stealing from the load etc until he has made the money back, with a bit on top for his trouble.
Usually I’m completely against this kind of behaviour, but in a case such as this, absolutely spot on Harry.
I’m the type of bloke that would do an extra load when I wanted to go home to help the firm out, paid of course, but [zb] me for money and I will make your life a misery. I once lost a bonus for too much idling by 1%, even though my truck had sat outside the workshop all day idling as the fitters tried to diagnose a fault, it cost me $200 or so, I disputed it, but it fell on deaf ears, from that moment on I started the truck when I got to work and never turned it off until I got back from a trip, it would have been far cheaper for them to have paid me my bonus, but they chose to [zb] me over instead, so they brought it upon themselves.
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I can see how you would get a sort of satisfaction from financially harming your employer on each and every subsequent trip. Forgive me if I have missed something ,but are you not still $200 down ?
As you said Harry was " absolutely spot on " , did you also take his suggestion and steal from your employer until you had recouped your $200 ?
Regards John.
old 67:
newmercman:
Harry Monk:
The simple answer is for the driver to thieve as much as he can from the employer, e.g.by syphoning diesel out of the vehicle tank, stealing from the load etc until he has made the money back, with a bit on top for his trouble.
Usually I’m completely against this kind of behaviour, but in a case such as this, absolutely spot on Harry.
I’m the type of bloke that would do an extra load when I wanted to go home to help the firm out, paid of course, but [zb] me for money and I will make your life a misery. I once lost a bonus for too much idling by 1%, even though my truck had sat outside the workshop all day idling as the fitters tried to diagnose a fault, it cost me $200 or so, I disputed it, but it fell on deaf ears, from that moment on I started the truck when I got to work and never turned it off until I got back from a trip, it would have been far cheaper for them to have paid me my bonus, but they chose to [zb] me over instead, so they brought it upon themselves.
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I can see how you would get a sort of satisfaction from financially harming your employer on each and every subsequent trip. Forgive me if I have missed something ,but are you not still $200 down ?
As you said Harry was " absolutely spot on " , did you also take his suggestion and steal from your employer until you had recouped your $200 ?
Regards John.
Quite - seems to be a somewhat perverse response to “retaliate” for not getting a bonus one month (through no fault of your own) by doing something to ensure you didn’t get it in subsequent months either. Still, whatever floats your particular boat…
I left the job just over a month later, I had until that point been very happy there, but once they pulled that stunt, it was an entirely different situation.
Now you may not agree with my philosophy, but it’s how my mind works, if you ■■■■ me over, I will not turn the other cheek. I once left a very well paid job over a Dartford Tunnel charge, I went through the tunnel on a run from Southampton to Chelmsford, the boss refused to pay the 1.60, saying I had gone around the top, I threw his keys back to him and left there and then. As I said it was a good job up until that point, but I got shafted and that made it a bad job.
Did it change the course of the world? No, the company went onto be very successful and still is to this day, but it didn’t have a negative effect on my life either, quite the opposite, plus I had the satisfaction of knowing that they would never be able to take me for a mug ever again. I call that a win.
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newmercman:
I left the job just over a month later, I had until that point been very happy there, but once they pulled that stunt, it was an entirely different situation.
Now you may not agree with my philosophy, but it’s how my mind works, if you [zb] me over, I will not turn the other cheek. I once left a very well paid job over a Dartford Tunnel charge, I went through the tunnel on a run from Southampton to Chelmsford, the boss refused to pay the 1.60, saying I had gone around the top, I threw his keys back to him and left there and then. As I said it was a good job up until that point, but I got shafted and that made it a bad job.
Did it change the course of the world? No, the company went onto be very successful and still is to this day, but it didn’t have a negative effect on my life either, quite the opposite, plus I had the satisfaction of knowing that they would never be able to take me for a mug ever again. I call that a win.
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Why did you go via tunnel any way ? I never go that way for the A12 unless there’s serious delays as it’s always more traffic around the tunnel
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Because they were doing roadworks at the Holmsdale Tunnel, it was still two lanes through there at the time and the traffic was usually back to the M1 at that time of day. Going through the tunnel was the quickest way.
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newmercman:
Because they were doing roadworks at the Holmsdale Tunnel, it was still two lanes through there at the time and the traffic was usually back to the M1 at that time of day. Going through the tunnel was the quickest way.
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That’s ok then I would done same , but my boss would not have quibbled about paying , so you did right thing by saving him time and money in the guise of your extra pay
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newmercman:
I left the job just over a month later, I had until that point been very happy there, but once they pulled that stunt, it was an entirely different situation.
Now you may not agree with my philosophy, but it’s how my mind works, if you [zb] me over, I will not turn the other cheek. I once left a very well paid job over a Dartford Tunnel charge, I went through the tunnel on a run from Southampton to Chelmsford, the boss refused to pay the 1.60, saying I had gone around the top, I threw his keys back to him and left there and then. As I said it was a good job up until that point, but I got shafted and that made it a bad job.
Did it change the course of the world? No, the company went onto be very successful and still is to this day, but it didn’t have a negative effect on my life either, quite the opposite, plus I had the satisfaction of knowing that they would never be able to take me for a mug ever again. I call that a win.
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Ah…ok…now you’ve put it like that, I understand.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Regards John.
That’s the thing, I got the job done, ready for the next mission, I didn’t hang it out and sit in traffic, probably costing him a night out on top and he knocked me for 1.60. That showed exactly how much value he put on my services.
As I said in my first reply, I’m very much against pilfering and intentional damage, but there’s a line, if it gets crossed it changes the rules. I personally wouldn’t steal diesel or part of the load, that’s likely to end in tears, but I certainly wouldn’t be as meticulous in my work as I was before, rather than attempting to solve any issues that arose during my work, I would play dumb and try to escalate the situation if possible. It would be a short term thing anyway, as I would be looking around for somewhere else to ply my trade.
I know principles dont pay the bills, but changing jobs does and so far, I’ve managed to do both, so even though my attitude could be seen as childish or even stupid, it’s done me no harm.
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