Brexit Letter Signed

weeto:

ROG:
Just heard that if both sides agree then the two years can be extended with no final time frame … is that right :question:

I think the hard line from Theresa is we are off after the 2 years is up with or without a deal.

More like that’s the line being fed to Davis to keep the Brexit vote quiet.Realistically if it was going to happen we’d already be well on our way out and with no need to wait 2 years from July 2016 let alone April 2017 to do it.While if an extension to the point of kicking Brexit out of the field wasn’t on the table the media wouldn’t have even bothered to make the point because the possibility wouldn’t exist. :bulb:

My bet would be on May calling a snap election in May,or at least within the 2 year time frame,with a resulting SNP/Lab/LibDem majority in parliament and that will be the end of Brexit.

Good read from the FT

Brexiters must lose if Brexit is to succeed

On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe. It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary.

Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential.

Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality. This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints.

01:5804:39 HQ MP Benn Sees Need to Be Frank About Brexit Challenge

Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent. The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation.

The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right.

Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British?

Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it.

But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached. This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side.

Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large.

If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them.

This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one. The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future.

Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one.

I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves.

martin.wolf@ft.com

msn.com/en-gb/money/news/bre … ailsignout

The libtard, snowflake SJW’s are in mourning and holding a candle and teddy bear meeting, just like they do after a terrorist attack!!! Islam should be banned, and the BBC ripped apart but with that traitor may as PM we will be ruled by sharia law if she could get away with doing that the only reason she triggered art50 was because she didn’t have any other choice in the matter, as it would have meant her career would have been over and the tory party out on it ear ASAP

She will continue with the establishment elites orders ( she is their Stooge) and will attempt to water down Brexit, and draw things out for as long as possible, so more delays ahead, instead of giving the notice to leave (ART 50) today and leaving the EU by say October 2017, This it having to take 2 yrs or longer isn’t true, But it is likely with the stooge the establishment elites put in place as PM the woman is a failure

hkloss1:
Good read from the FT

Brexiters must lose if Brexit is to succeed Any compromised final deal will indeed likely upset Brexiteers, fearing a watering-down of the whole thing that is enough to sell away much of the upside from Brexit - such as getting the money back we currently send to Brussels any time soon.

On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe. It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary. The tragedy in the longer term is how we’ve allowed the country that produced the Nazis get away with “letting the allies execute it’s own government”, and then allowing the succeeding German governments to reverse-take over the European continent “Politically” to the same ends (sans-holocaust - so far) Germany should have been put under full British rule at the end of WWII at least as much as Britain was put under German rule upon the death of Queen Anne.

Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential. Access to the single market can hardly be described as “Favourable” if our balance of trade with it sees us paying “fees” to then also lose money on that trade. If we’re out of it, we gain the moment we stop losing the money - something I’ve banged on about since the very beginning. It is true though, that we are more divided. It was already true that we’re less influential, because our MEPs don’t get to turn anything significant over in Brussels, even damaging proposals such as the EU Army or Allowing Erdogan’s Turkey to join the EU further down the line.

Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality. This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints.

Trade, traditionally is at it’s most lucrative when over the greatest distance involving the most disparate goods. The Silk Road for example. It is very difficult for both sides in a “free trade club” that is anything but - to not break their own rules to get ahead in such a zone, and indeed this has happened on an industrial scale. Euro truckers from Holland will now have a Romanian driver for example, being paid below UK minimum wage (which is supposed to be illegal) and frequently breaking the law to “get ahead” whilst here. Only this morning I find myself being overtaken in the third lane by a 60mph Dutch TNT truck who clearly couldn’t wait for me to complete my own 56mph overtake of a supermarket artic in lane one… Meanwhile, I have no chance of getting any jobs on the EU continent, even if I have the qualifications to get them. It’s a lot harder for UK citizens to get work on the continent than vice-versa. So much for “Harmonization”! Being a member of a political Union, which actually translates as being owned by Brussels means that EU citizens can break our own laws with impunity via the “For the greater social good” imperative, which of course no British Citizen ever had a say on. If we’d imposed our laws upon any incoming workforce, a lot would not bother coming here, and companies would be reluctant to lose money on their trade with us. The whole “single market” thing is heavily tilted in favour of socialist governments, and against Nationalist ones. Even Gorbachev remarked “Why are they trying to re-create the Soviet Union in Europe?” when talking about the European Commission…!

01:5804:39 HQ MP Benn Sees Need to Be Frank About Brexit Challenge

Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent. The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation. Whilst it baffles me why we have this inconsistency regarding very different foreign policies towards China and Russia right now - future governments like the idea of borrowing more cheap money from China, effectively bankrolling the world debt bubble right now whilst bigging-up the so-called “Threat” from Putin’s Russia, which is just an excuse not to lessen expansionistic NATO.
Also, the concept of man-made climate change gets pushed upon us by the religious-faith denying Science community with the same fervor as some kind of new age religion. Natural climate change is very real, and we need to prepare for it. NOT pretend that it’s somehow man-made, and can be altered by completely trashing our economies. Cheap Electricity with arbitary innovation are the keys to the whole world’s prosperous future. Minimum Wages and enforced bottom-up efficiency at the expense of ordinary people - is not.

The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right. This much is true. We live in a nil-sum economy, and for one side to be a great gainer - the other side must become a big loser in the scheme of things.

Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British? Germany may well dominate - but from now on - it must pay for it’s own political projects. Once Britain leaves, France and Italy plus a few others will follow. Germany will be putting in all by itself for everyone - which is right and proper for the style of EU they actually want to run.

Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it. Cameron has already paid the personal price for stealing UKIP support which ended up getting him over the line into a majority government. Unfortunately, his resigning only serves to disunite unless Theresa May can actually pull this off. We are completely at Theresa May’s mercy until 2020 now then. This isn’t very satisfactory for Brexiteer non-Tory voters like myself - but it’s going to be even less palatable for the Pro-Tory Remainers who don’t feel any particular allegiance to this “Crowned” Prime Minister they find as their new boss now.

But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached. This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side.
Imho if it takes two years - it’ll never happen. This is a binary snap-off, do-or-die proposition now. We must expect every single step of the way for Remainers to continue resisting, which will likely push the “negotiating time” over the two years, with a hope of course that if Brexit is not done by the next UK General election - then Theresa May’s Conservatives will suffer for this “lack of progress” in the polls. This makes for considerable political instability in this country for the next three years then - let alone two. Brexit being completed early - should be a desirable thing for all by this point, but knowing human nature for what it is - I doubt the resistance is going to stop any time soon.

Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large.

This is a bit like Poker: You’ve got three aces, but alas there are four hearts on the board, and you don’t hold any hearts in your hand, let alone the ace of hearts you need to have the nuts here. Your opponent puts you all-in… You’ve already put a substantial amount into the pot. Are you “pot committed?” Are you going to cut your losses, and ditch your losing three aces? or are you going to call, - when your opponent might indeed be bluffing about having the ace of hearts - but turns over some trash with the deuce of hearts - and takes all your money away anyway.

If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them. That’s just it. We’re not the weaker party, just the smaller party facing up to a legion of 27 countries that are obviously going to put their collective (socialist) interest ahead of Britain’s…

This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one. The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future.
I don’t desire “no deal at all”, but I can see the need for “being prepared to do a hard brexit” because if you’re not prepared to totally trash what you have - you’re going to end up losing it anyway. We must not put ourselves in the situation where our opponent can keep drawing as many proverbial cards as they need to get the hand that beats ours. If our hand is ahead, but looking vulnerable (as is the case at present) then it’s for US to put THEM “All-In” and stop giving away the damned free drawout!

Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one. It’s imperative that she does believe this. If there is still any “resisting Remainer” in her - we’re totally screwed!

I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves.

The UK economy will get a boost once we no longer send the membership monies, and it will get an even bigger boost - once we trade unrestricted this time - with the rest of the world. We didn’t become an empire on Gunboat Diplomacy. We did it on trade, and used Gunboat Diplomacy to keep things together once we’d built up that empire. America ditched us along the way, and in time plenty of other nations “losing out from the empire” did as well. Now we’ve ditched the EU. We’re a trading Island with a great edge in replacing what little we had with a rather large upsided ‘X’ variable now. If you roll a double 2 on a pair of dice - it’s not reckless or stupid to want to have another throw to “see if you can get something higher”. Sure, you might throw double one and end up with losing 50% of what you started with. But that is not only unlikely (1 in 36 chance of throwing double one, 2 in 36 chance of throwing one and two, 3 in 36 chance of throwing four, 16% chance in total of not ending up “with better”) but you only have a throw a five on the two dice or better (84% chance) to end up better off. Time to put a proper player and gambler in the driving seat who understands the odds being in our favour rather than this more standard politician Rhetoric" where you hear "I’m not a betting person but… "

martin.wolf@ft.com

msn.com/en-gb/money/news/bre … ailsignout

excellent day …now for customs t forms and every truck going back 2 place of origin…fingers xd …

hkloss1:
Good read from the FT

Brexiters must lose if Brexit is to succeed

On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe. It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary.

Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential.

Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality. This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints.

01:5804:39 HQ MP Benn Sees Need to Be Frank About Brexit Challenge

Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent. The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation.

The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right.

Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British?

Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it.

But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached. This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side.

Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large.

If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them.

This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one. The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future.

Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one.

I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves.

martin.wolf@ft.com

msn.com/en-gb/money/news/bre … ailsignout

If all that was correct how did the UK and the EEC/EU survive before 1973 ?.

IE More of the same old remainer whingeing.Which translates as the bankers have invested loads of money in backing Germany and the EU not Britain and now their gravy train is potentially going to hit the buffers.Because Germany/EU is going to lose our net contributions subsiding EU countries to buy German products and rebuilding Eastern Europe etc etc and hopefully we are no longer going to be seen as a dumping ground for German/EU exports and services like transport which we can make/do for ourselves.

As for short EU supply chains v longer ones how do they explain the fact that our non EU trade exceeds our EU trade as an EU member state ?.

As for the EU ‘shattering’ what they really mean is that like all Federalist institutions they don’t like the idea of secession and with it democracy.While if it was all about trade and democracy they’d obviously have no trouble with a Confederal Europe in which the resepective National MEP groups hold the sovereign right of VETO or opt out.But that obviously isn’t the agenda of its dictatorial Federal elitist/Socialist driven ideology.In which case hopefully it will be smashed just like all the other similar type dictatorships.Which have tried to dominate Europe and remove the right of self determination and the local democratic control of its different nation states over the decades and centuries.Bearing in mind that just about every war that has been fought in Europe has been in the ‘defence’ of the idea of the Nation state over the dictatorship of the Federation in whatever form.

ROG:
Just heard that if both sides agree then the two years can be extended with no final time frame … is that right :question:

Yes it can be prolonged but only if all 27 EU countries vote YES for it. If one says “No” > no extention of negotiation

Seemed to do alright the other 1950 years when not in it so personally dont see the fuss about leaving :wink:

Tipperdipper1:

ROG:
Just heard that if both sides agree then the two years can be extended with no final time frame … is that right :question:

Yes it can be prolonged but only if all 27 EU countries vote YES for it. If one says “No” > no extention of negotiation

And that one country that says NO can be the UK. It will be interesting, when the time comes, to see what reasons May gives for extending the procedure.

Is anyone else alarmed with Tim Farron? Stating we can still revoke this and pretend it never happened?

God he ■■■■■ me off. He’d sell his mum for a 2nd referendum.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

hkloss1:
Good read from the FT

Always makes me cynical when a financial paper like the FT sings from the same hymn sheet as The Guardian and The Independant/The I. Why would that be I wonder?

hkloss1:
MP Benn Sees Need to Be Frank About Brexit Challenge

If only he was frank and actually worked with the Brexit Committee he chairs. Tomorrow he will release a report drawn up by only he and the committee clerks. There were no previous discussions with committee members about the report and no discussions about its conclusions. Select committees are supposed to hold the government to account but also help them shape policy. Benn is just trying to obstruct the process.

hkloss1:
seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous.

A curious statement from a financial paper. Europe’s percentage of world gdp presently stands at around 20% and is shrinking whereas Asia’s stands at 45% and growing. Twenty seven countries have officially notified the UK government that they wish to have a deal in place immediately the UK leaves the EU. In order to do that talks would have to take place whilst the UK is still a member of the EU, against EU rules. This list includes countries like China, India, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, The USA and the whole of South America. In fact all but two of the worlds top ten economies, France and Italy, have shown an interest - including Germany.

tommy t:
She will continue with the establishment elites orders . . . and will attempt to water down Brexit, and draw things out for as long as possible . . . instead of giving the notice to leave today and leaving the EU by say October 2017, This it having to take 2 yrs or longer isn’t true

The Great Repeal Bill takes centre stage now to incorporate EU law into our legislation so that the bits we want and the bits we don’t can be seperated at the due date. Without this Bill, when the UK leaves the EU all these rules and regulations would no longer have legal standing in the UK, creating a ‘black hole’ in the UK statute book and leading to uncertainty and confusion. It will also include repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

Nothing will happen as far as the EU is concerned until after the French Presidential elections in May and no serious decisions will be made until after the German elections in September. But talks will certainly take place and if they are to fail they will do so before 2017 is out. Realistically all the plans would have to be in place for the EU summit in October 2018 so the EU would have six months to vet and ratify the deals. That is a very tight schedule but it is aided by the fact that a majority of countries support Michel Barnier’s view that the UK must be out before European parliament elections in May or June 2019. So it is incumbent on both sides to get the deal done, hence it will be interesting to hear of the reasons and excuses for extending the negotiating period.

Problems that could distract the talks include the Greek debt crisis, the Italian referendum on membership of the Euro, and even Germany, Spain and Portugal conducting trade talks with the UK, against EU rules, whilst the main talks are proceeding.

JaxDemon:
Is anyone else alarmed with Tim Farron? Stating we can still revoke this and pretend it never happened?

God he [zb] me off. He’d sell his mum for a 2nd referendum.

Shocker committed Federalist doesn’t do democracy.

Firstly his plan is probably more a case of the former pretend the referendum never happened than the latter.Bearing in mind that with the latter he’d need to explain why the need for a second referendum when we’ve already had one which would be interesting.

While scarily yes there are loads more like him probably to the point of holding a majority in parliament.Realistically they will probably succeed in derailing the process at some point within the 2 year period that remainer May has conveniently handed to them.When given a decent government acting in the national interest we’d have told the EU to shove article 50 and walked away in July last year.On the grounds that the EU is a dictatorial threat to our’s and Europe’s stability and democracy.While charging us,in the form of contributions and a rigged market that keeps us in trade deficit,for the privilege.

Stanley Knife:

tommy t:
She will continue with the establishment elites orders . . . and will attempt to water down Brexit, and draw things out for as long as possible . . . instead of giving the notice to leave today and leaving the EU by say October 2017, This it having to take 2 yrs or longer isn’t true

The Great Repeal Bill takes centre stage now to incorporate EU law into our legislation so that the bits we want and the bits we don’t can be seperated at the due date. Without this Bill, when the UK leaves the EU all these rules and regulations would no longer have legal standing in the UK, creating a ‘black hole’ in the UK statute book and leading to uncertainty and confusion. It will also include repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

Nothing will happen as far as the EU is concerned until after the French Presidential elections in May and no serious decisions will be made until after the German elections in September. But talks will certainly take place and if they are to fail they will do so before 2017 is out. Realistically all the plans would have to be in place for the EU summit in October 2018 so the EU would have six months to vet and ratify the deals. That is a very tight schedule but it is aided by the fact that a majority of countries support Michel Barnier’s view that the UK must be out before European parliament elections in May or June 2019. So it is incumbent on both sides to get the deal done, hence it will be interesting to hear of the reasons and excuses for extending the negotiating period.

Problems that could distract the talks include the Greek debt crisis, the Italian referendum on membership of the Euro, and even Germany, Spain and Portugal conducting trade talks with the UK, against EU rules, whilst the main talks are proceeding.

tommy t has got it spot on here.

Firstly what is the relevance of other European domestic elections to Brexit.Other than yet another potential excuse for the remainers to say that if Le Pen wins out then we must stay in to block any attempt by her possible ( hopeful ) new Nationalist French administration and policies to influence Europe in opposition to Merkel ?.While the reality is there was nothing legally stopping us from ignoring article 50.

Or the question why couldn’t article 50 have been invoked the day after the referendum and what was stopping us walking away in July of last year.IE it says that negotiations may take ‘up to’ 2 years not 2 years minimum nor does it say that both sides have to agree to the secession of a member state and that state can’t secede unilaterally.While even if it did that would obviously be a matter of a government having signed us up to an illegal contract that contradicts the UK ‘constitution’ in terms of sovereignty.

As for the rest I’d consider anything,which doesn’t totally wind the clock back to where we were before the European Communities Act was enacted,in terms of both ditching all EU legislation and trade policy,as a pointless exercise and a total waste of Brexit campaigners’ time.

While realistically there’s as much hope of the majority remain parliament making anything more,than just token changes,to the legislation imposed on us by the European Communities Act,as Bob Hope and no hope.With it probably being more likely that May will call a general election before the process of actually leaving has even got under way let alone finished and Farron and Co will then just use their inevitable parliamentary majority at that point to ignore the referendum like it never happened.

IE as tommy t says a phoney Brexit,based on a phoney referendum and run by committed remainers in the form of first Cameron and then May.With anyone who really wants to leave the EU realistically being back where we started needing a UKIP majority in parliament to make it happen.The really unbelievable bit being Farage’s naivety and complacency in thinking that May will deliver it. :bulb:

Having said that and assuming a Le Pen win I could possibly see the situation of leave voters like myself at least possibly thinking that we’d be better off remaining to help her and people like Victor Orban in trying to form a more Nationalist Europe than a Federalist one.In which case Brexit then becomes a moot point. :bulb:

This is interesting. :laughing:

express.co.uk/news/politics/ … it-support

Which shows the delusional thought processes going on the heads of the muppets running the EU like Juncker.In which he intends to play off US Federalism against the Brexit/EU secessionist vote and the large scale preference in Europe for a Europe made up of seperate self governing nation states.

While he also seems to have missed the small matter of the US constitution having been established now for over 200 years.Ironically bearing in mind that it also took a war of Federal aggression which killed a massive proportion of the US population to do it and which arguably created a flawed,inferior,less democratic Federal Constitution,than the original Articles of Confederation based on state sovereignty as intended. :unamused:

So I’d suggest that Juncker should go ahead with his attempt in which he’ll probably find that much of the US population would say yes they’d like to have the return of the same right to self determination and democratic accountability of the individual states that secession from the EU is all about or in fact secession anywhere.Nor would Trump probably want to stand in their way.Bearing in mind the obvious democratic advantages which a Confederal US system,or a Europe made up of its sovereign Nation States,has over James Madison’s flawed,relatively undemocratic,one size fits all,US Federal government system.

Let alone Juncker’s obvious plan for a USE,based on the dictatorial aims of unelected power hungry nutters like him and the EU Commissioners or at best qualified majority state vote.All of which means laws here decided and imposed by a foreign agenda with no electoral mandate here.