Ergot2005:
One of our EX new boys was tipping at Cargill Nash in Manchester… waited 3 hours…
He tipped drove out of the place and parked back up again. Boss asked him I thought you’d just got tipped… yes boss I’m sat outside on my 45min break now… he didn’t last much longer lol
Yeh I know what you mean, It’s a fine line mate between taking the ■■■■ and keep getting the the job done while keeping it legal, and making sure you’re getting a proper break to yourself, …(.especially if you are docked 45 mins a day off your pay for it, I can see his point tbh )
It could be said that in the eyes of the law he did nothing wrong, assuming he had not been told that he would be x. no of hours on bay…could not freely take time off away from vehicle, poa etc etc.
On the other hand we both know this job and how it works in reality, and that he could have booked a break, in order to get tipped in time for his re.load, maybe even have got a 30 min kip in there, go for re.load and then take his own proper break afterwards, after having rest although not officially.
As I said that is what I would do, but the likes of Mr Conor, (presumably the type who walks round doing his daily checks on a timer, wearing full hi viz, hard hat and safety glasses) would say, (and indeed did say)
‘‘Aka Running Bent’’
I would interpret more as trying to get the job done under difficult and adverse circumstances, (especially when tramping) while looking after yourself and contending with tacho and tight regs at the same time.
Jimd:
Your boss has no right to ask you to set your tacho to break whilst being tipped. If I’m on a loading bay and being tipped from the rear… I put it on break. Tipped from the side is other work as your usually required to move the curtains etc. Its your decision not your bosses. Afterall its your licence and I’m sure he wont be offering to pay your infringement fines.
Why are you assuming he’s been asked to go on break illegally? The OP might be loaded on bays, even loaded through the sides could be on break, I used to load at a place where you opened and tied the curtains back before entering a shed to load, once in the shed you would never get out of the truck, a) because you didn’t need to b) because you get run over by a forklift, once loaded you left the shed to secure the load and close the curtains.
So as has been pointed out the request is perfectly legal provided the driver is fulfils the requirements to be on break, its up to the driver to find out if its reasonable.
Well… it depends. I don’t get paid for my breaks. And if I can’t leave the truck and go for a walk or a run it’s not going on break. If I am not being paid I am not working so can do whatever I please as long as it’s legal.
I’m not that experienced of RDC’s - I’ve only been to one proper one - and a few maga factories/plants. And I can’t see them being too happy if you just abandoned your truck and left site for a bit. So it’s not a break - it’s other work as a truck supervisor/security guard.
Next time I’m at a very big site - for a laugh I’ll explain my wagon’s on break and I’m going for a walk off site and I’ll be back in around 45 mins. I’ll see how they react to that.
What you’re arguing is the reasonableness case not the legal case, I wonder if you understand the difference between “break period” and “rest period”
steve4545:
Hi all just looking for a bit of advice, started a new job on Monday, gaffer is asking me to put the tacho on break when I get held up loading/unloading etc. even if it’s just for a few minutes he says it is to keep my working time down, is this legal I have, been driving 20 years and never been asked to do this before, I thought a break was for the driver to recuperate (rest).
Are you salaried ? If so keep your breaks to the bare minimum.
I’m salaried and only have 45 mins per day ever (unless I go over 9 hours driving) this paid off this week as I was only given a 5 hour day on Friday because my hours are high done for just after 11am. Why on earth would you put it in break all the time to enable you to do more work later on down the line
robroy:
What I do mate is this.(which may bring on a stroke to all the purists and ner do wrongs.)
Firstly I never use poa, I’ll book a break instead, purely to keep myself right on the tacho when I’m waiting about
AKA running bent.
How so?
I reckon with some guys mate, that ‘‘running bent’’ is a black and white situation, if you do not conform to the absolute letter of the law, you’re ‘running bent’
I see ‘‘running bent’’ as 2 cards, magnets with extra driving time, wires, not taking any breaks, driving through breaks, blatantly missing part of or full daily rest periods, and all the rest of it.
I think we do more than enough in this job as trampers without resorting to all that ■■■■■■■■.
Not using poa, putting tacho on break when loading and making up for it later at a suitable place with facilities, doing your checks within 5 minutes and using the extra 10 (or whatever) to have a coffee, and similar like stuff is playing the system and/or bending a bit.
It’s a bit like Smack and Crack compared with Weed and Space cake, yeh all under the ‘Drugs’ umbrella, but a ■■■■ world of absolute difference.
If Conor, or guys like him want to stick stringently 101% to rules, good luck to them, can’t fault them.
I’ve never been a conformist by nature, but instead prefer to win by appearing to play their bloody silly games.
Jeez mate! …part of that rambling post could have come from the likes of Winseer , what’s happening to me.
robroy:
What I do mate is this.(which may bring on a stroke to all the purists and ner do wrongs.)
Firstly I never use poa, I’ll book a break instead, purely to keep myself right on the tacho when I’m waiting about
AKA running bent.
How so?
I reckon with some guys mate, that ‘‘running bent’’ is a black and white situation, if you do not conform to the absolute letter of the law, you’re ‘running bent’
Is using break instead of POA against the absolute letter of the law?
I can see situation where using POA instead of break is not absolutely correct, waiting period not known for instance, but break instead of POA, provided you fulfil the legal criteria for a break?
robroy:
I reckon with some guys mate, that ‘‘running bent’’ is a black and white situation, if you do not conform to the absolute letter of the law, you’re ‘running bent’
I think we do more than enough in this job as trampers without resorting to all that ■■■■■■■■.
Well here is my two cents worth, the amount of regulations and WTD that we are bound by is confusing to a lot of people, if you understand the job then your not running bent in the way rob is suggesting on how he does it, incidentally it is the same way that most of us do it, you have to get the job done and the key here is sensibly. So long as you are still taking the required breaks and getting the correct daily rest then how can tipping on break be running bent? rob will still get his breaks in some stage in the day albeit maybe further up the road. You have to balance between knowing the job and knowing the law and making a smart decision. The job needs doing but everyone wants to tie your hands behind your back in getting it done. Do it by the book and risk earning nothing and not getting the loads on or off. When you know how to do the job, then you know when to shut one eye.
Ive done it both ways to suit me ... Im paid by the hour. ( my record was 6 1/2 hours at Tesco Hinkley then advised my boss I was having a 45 min break down the road … he was fine ).
Since then I have spoken to my boss and we have agreed that I put it on break while waiting on the bay … it helps with WTD and overall duty time. I get paid from turning up at depot to leaving depot less 45 min break. I make sure that while I`m opening / shutting curtains / waiting inline / vehicle checks I am on " other work " when I am on the bay it goes on break … I know I am there for 3 hours and will be getting paid for 2.25 hours of it. I am free to sleep in the cab, go and get a burger or watch TV.
For example this week card reads 10 hours other work + 30 hours drive = 40 hours wtd. I will book and get paid for 52.75 hours. Boss is happy squeaky clean with vosa and wtd and gets job done reliably because driver is happy and well rewarded.
Have the conversation with your boss … he might be perfectly happy to pay all breaks and let you have your own 45 min … but don`t assume as you might get a shock when you get your first pay packet
There appears to be a lot of people getting their knickers in a twist over nothing or creating problems for themselves where none exist. At the end of the day you should choose whichever mode suits YOU. We all come to work to earn money, end of! It appears that lots of us are paid in different ways; if it suits you to use POA then use POA, if it suits you to use break, then use break. It’s a given that the only technically illegal thing to do is use break or POA whilst actively working. Therefore if waiting, sitting on your ■■■ while someone else loads/unloads, lying on your bunk or supping coffee whilst whacking off to internet ■■■■ is what you’re doing then stick it on the mode that earns you more money. Simple.
steve4545:
Hi all just looking for a bit of advice, started a new job on Monday, gaffer is asking me to put the tacho on break when I get held up loading/unloading etc. even if it’s just for a few minutes he says it is to keep my working time down, is this legal I have, been driving 20 years and never been asked to do this before, I thought a break was for the driver to recuperate (rest).
Are you salaried ? If so keep your breaks to the bare minimum.
I’m salaried and only have 45 mins per day ever (unless I go over 9 hours driving) this paid off this week as I was only given a 5 hour day on Friday because my hours are high done for just after 11am. Why on earth would you put it in break all the time to enable you to do more work later on down the line
That’s what I was getting at as I used to be salaried and tried to keep to a bare 45 every day
the maoster:
if it suits you to use POA then use POA, if it suits you to use break, then use break. It’s a given that the only technically illegal thing to do is use break or POA whilst actively working.
That’s not just “technically illegal” - that is illegal…
“Technically illegal” would be e.g. recording POA when you don’t know in advance how long you’ll be waiting, or taking/making a quick call from/to the office while recording break
the maoster:
if it suits you to use POA then use POA, if it suits you to use break, then use break. It’s a given that the only technically illegal thing to do is use break or POA whilst actively working.
That’s not just “technically illegal” - that is illegal…
Although I believe it is legal at the end of the week if it means the difference between another night out or getting home.
the maoster:
if it suits you to use POA then use POA, if it suits you to use break, then use break. It’s a given that the only technically illegal thing to do is use break or POA whilst actively working.
That’s not just “technically illegal” - that is illegal…
“Technically illegal” would be e.g. recording POA when you don’t know in advance how long you’ll be waiting, or taking/making a quick call from/to the office while recording break
I used the phrase “technically illegal” in the mistaken belief that I was addressing like minded individuals not failed PCSO’s or would be moral guardians with little or no life away from internet chat rooms, my mistake.
the maoster:
I used the phrase “technically illegal” in the mistaken belief that I was addressing like minded individuals not failed PCSO’s or would be moral guardians with little or no life away from internet chat rooms, my mistake.
You know the score maoster, think you maybe a little optimistic with “addressing like minded individuals” though.
the maoster:
lying on your bunk or supping coffee whilst whacking off to internet ■■■■ is what you’re doing then stick it on the mode that earns you more money. Simple.
+1
Although the mode that earns me the most money for this is ‘selfie’, then ‘Macro’ for the money shot
the maoster:
if it suits you to use POA then use POA, if it suits you to use break, then use break. It’s a given that the only technically illegal thing to do is use break or POA whilst actively working.
That’s not just “technically illegal” - that is illegal…
“Technically illegal” would be e.g. recording POA when you don’t know in advance how long you’ll be waiting, or taking/making a quick call from/to the office while recording break
I used the phrase “technically illegal” in the mistaken belief that I was addressing like minded individuals not failed PCSO’s or would be moral guardians with little or no life away from internet chat rooms, my mistake.
Yup - I failed to make the grade as a PCSO. Over-qualified, y’see…
)
done for just after 11am. Why on earth would you put it in break all the time to enable you to do more work later on down the line 
, what’s happening to me. 
