No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected meps
Seems that one Dominic ■■■■■■■■ is to offered a post (BBC.R4 News) a post in the Johnson Government.
.
There is rumour that he is to head the new MiniTrue being set up, only 35 years late.
;-/
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected meps
The MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
The MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
So were some of the Conservatives that voted for bojoe
Darkside:
The MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
MEP’s have no electoral mandate and with it democratic accountability outside of their own states.But can vote through decisions as a majority,which affect all.
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected mepsThe MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
Absolutely true.
And who is voting on our next Chancellor of the Exchequer, and HomeSecretary?
No-one…
Franglais:
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected mepsThe MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
Absolutely true.
And who is voting on our next Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Home Secretary?
No-one…
So much control we have taken back.
Wait for it ‘You lost get over it’ etc etc. 
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected mepsThe MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
and so were some of the tory mps that voted for bojo
Franglais:
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected mepsThe MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
Absolutely true.
And who is voting on our next Chancellor of the Exchequer, and HomeSecretary?
No-one…
Nobody ever votes for those people. They are chosen by the leader of the party that wins a general election. And cabinet can be reshuffled at any time by the sitting prime minister. Nobody voted for Javid and Patel, just as nobody voted for Hammond and Rudd in 2016, or 2017 after the General Election
OVLOV JAY:
Franglais:
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
No I did not miss the unelected being elected in a undemercratic election by unelected mepsThe MEPs were voted for by the public in a democratic election though…
Absolutely true.
And who is voting on our next Chancellor of the Exchequer, and HomeSecretary?
No-one…Nobody ever votes for those people. They are chosen by the leader of the party that wins a general election. And cabinet can be reshuffled at any time by the sitting prime minister. Nobody voted for Javid and Patel, just as nobody voted for Hammond and Rudd in 2016, or 2017 after the General Election
Johnson was NOT leader when the Tories won the last election though, was he?
.
I recall posts on this forum from those who say they were normally Labour voters, but wouldn’t cast those votes so long as Corbyn was leader. I daresay some Tories feel the same.
.
There is no doubt that the system whereby Johnson is now PM is legal. But is it democratic?
.
Democracy is (in the real world) difficult to tie down. If we waited until we had 100% consensus we would stagnate.
With Brexit we have gone from promises of a better deal for trade with the EU, plus better deals with countries all over the world, all with no down sides!
We now have a sight of Brexit as never discussed before: No Deal, and even Patrick Minford says that’s a bad thing. Mind you Minford is more optimistic than others: after the loss of the motor manufacturing industry and agriculture as we know it, the City will recover after a few lean years… whoopi-do!
.
Yes. The job of Ministers IS within the personal gift of one person.
Not like the EU, where Commissioners are voted on by all elected MEPs.
Neither are perfect systems, but it’s the real world we’re discussing.
Once in office the Commissioners are safe from the daily whims of any PM.
Johnson or Corbyn needing a political fix, can lean on appointed Ministers. No such pressure on EU Commissioners.
.
I’m not saying the EU system is perfect. I’m not even saying it’s better.
I do say it’s different and those who shout about how undemocratic it is, without even commenting on shortcomings in the UK system are being disingenuous.
Franglais:
Johnson was NOT leader when the Tories won the last election though, was he?
.
I recall posts on this forum from those who say they were normally Labour voters, but wouldn’t cast those votes so long as Corbyn was leader. I daresay some Tories feel the same.
.
There is no doubt that the system whereby Johnson is now PM is legal. But is it democratic?
.
Democracy is (in the real world) difficult to tie down. If we waited until we had 100% consensus we would stagnate.
With Brexit we have gone from promises of a better deal for trade with the EU, plus better deals with countries all over the world, all with no down sides!
We now have a sight of Brexit as never discussed before: No Deal, and even Patrick Minford says that’s a bad thing. Mind you Minford is more optimistic than others: after the loss of the motor manufacturing industry and agriculture as we know it, the City will recover after a few lean years… whoopi-do!
.
Yes. The job of Ministers IS within the personal gift of one person.
Not like the EU, where Commissioners are voted on by all elected MEPs.
Neither are perfect systems, but it’s the real world we’re discussing.
Once in office the Commissioners are safe from the daily whims of any PM.
Johnson or Corbyn needing a political fix, can lean on appointed Ministers. No such pressure on EU Commissioners.
.
I’m not saying the EU system is perfect. I’m not even saying it’s better.
I do say it’s different and those who shout about how undemocratic it is, without even commenting on shortcomings in the UK system are being disingenuous.
The EU is no more democratic than using the combined vote of all 50 US states to decide what happens in Britain.Or asking Japanese voters to tie break a hung UK parliament.
As for changing the leader in the middle of an elected administration’s term no one voted for Churchill to replace Chamberlain or Callaghan to replace Wilson.No surprise no complaints from Remainers concerning the latter just as there were no complaints about the voting age or claims that Yes voters didn’t know what they were voting for ( bearing in mind FCO 30/1048.The fact is our system only allows the public to vote for their parliamentary MP and you know it.
Or as in this case when Parliament allows a referendum which of course the EU Federalists only had a problem with after they lost.
So tell us by your selective logic when did we ever vote for the EU President.Oh wait.
No, Johnson wasn’t the leader. But May was. Why do you have a problem with Sajid Javid being appointed chancellor by Boris, but you didn’t have a problem with Hammond being appointed by May? Ironically May was coronated by default, at least Johnson was voted in.
And MEPs don’t vote for the EU commissioners. The outgoing commission appoints them
Maybe I’ve been taken in by all the hype, and maybe it’s a bit of wishful thinking, but I’m quite optimistic about Boris as pm.
Something different, somebody who is actually likeable despite the class divide.
He’s making all the right noises, he’s pledged to recruit more Police, he’s promised to sort out what everybody wants sorted out…AND he’s honouring the democratic vote to leave the EU.
If he manages to ■■■■ off the whinging masses who did not get what they wanted, he’ll do for me.
He’s going in for a deal with the ‘‘We want one, but if you aint prepared to talk’ then ■■■■ you’’ approach, instead of the previous ‘going through the motions, playing for time, not really wanting to leave anyway’ cap in hand policy by the previous remain based agenda lot.
Give him a chance to make things work,.and to stave off the backstabbers.
See what he can do,.and THEN judge him.
robroy:
Maybe I’ve been taken in by all the hype, and maybe it’s a bit of wishful thinking, but I’m quite optimistic about Boris as pm.
Something different, somebody who is actually likeable despite the class divide.
He’s making all the right noises, he’s pledged to recruit more Police, he’s promised to sort out what everybody wants sorted out…AND he’s honouring the democratic vote to leave the EU.
If he manages to ■■■■ off the whinging masses who did not get what they wanted, he’ll do for me.
He’s going in for a deal with the ‘‘We want one, but if you aint prepared to talk’ then [zb] you’’ approach, instead of the previous ‘going through the motions, playing for time, not really wanting to leave anyway’ cap in hand policy by the previous remain based agenda lot.
Give him a chance to make things work,.and to stave off the backstabbers.
See what he can do,.and THEN judge him.
You’re asking the impossible there, lefties to be objective!!
robroy:
If he manages to ■■■■ off the whinging masses who did not get what they wanted, he’ll do for me.
This^^^^ Oh God this a thousand times.
I have no doubt that Boris is a “hold my beer and watch this” type of guy. I also have no doubt that he has the morals of an alley cat and puts Boris first, but it’s my belief (and fervent hope) that he’s a patriot who possesses the balls rightly or wrongly to tell anybody attempting to dictate to Britain to go and ■■■■ off. I agree that that unstatetesman like approach will win us few friends and even less favours, but you know what? I don’t care one iota what the rest of the world thinks, I just want all Brits of whatever colour and ethnicity to hold their heads high for once.
Perhaps it is jingoistic and perhaps it is flag waving but I’m heartily sick of diktats from grey men in Brussels shaping how I live my life and I yearn for the national pride Maggie gave us as she launched an armada to the South Atlantic. Give Bojo a chance, he could very well be the man.
the maoster:
robroy:
If he manages to ■■■■ off the whinging masses who did not get what they wanted, he’ll do for me.This^^^^ Oh God this a thousand times.
I have no doubt that Boris is a “hold my beer and watch this” type of guy. I also have no doubt that he has the morals of an alley cat and puts Boris first, but it’s my belief (and fervent hope) that he’s a patriot who possesses the balls rightly or wrongly to tell anybody attempting to dictate to Britain to go and ■■■■ off. I agree that that unstatetesman like approach will win us few friends and even less favours, but you know what? I don’t care one iota what the rest of the world thinks, I just want all Brits of whatever colour and ethnicity to hold their heads high for once.
Perhaps it is jingoistic and perhaps it is flag waving but I’m heartily sick of diktats from grey men in Brussels shaping how I live my life and I yearn for the national pride Maggie gave us as she launched an armada to the South Atlantic. Give Bojo a chance, he could very well be the man.
Spot on mate. 
Trump can have every human failing in the book as far as I’m concerned…
I’m one of those that thinks he is the “British version of Trump” now.
The fact he’s kicked off “shooting from the Lip” trolling the opposition on his very first day - demonstrates that he is completely “Poltiically Incorrect” - which is actually highly entertaining!
If Trump has energized politics - then Boris is the second act, even if you’re thinking “Bring on the Clowns” right now…
The winner of the next general election - will be the PM that ends Austerity. There’s no chance that’ll be Corbyn, as he’s jumped off the fence on the wrong side of it!
I wish Labour luck working hard to win the Libdems dozen or so seats off them “by becoming a party of Remain like the Libdems”…
All it takes now is for Nigel Farage to not stand candidates in any seats with a Brexiteer Tory in them - and hey presto - the NEW leader of the opposition at the next election is likely to be that same Farage rather than Labour OR the libdems now! Forget the SNP - even maxed out at 59 seats - that will never be the “2nd largest party”… 
OVLOV JAY:
No, Johnson wasn’t the leader. But May was. Why do you have a problem with Sajid Javid being appointed chancellor by Boris, but you didn’t have a problem with Hammond being appointed by May? Ironically May was coronated by default, at least Johnson was voted in.And MEPs don’t vote for the EU commissioners. The outgoing commission appoints them
I’m a bit pushed for time. So I’ll answer more fully later.
(TNUK holds it’s breath…)
Commissioners are not simply appointed by the outgoing administration.
I was criticising the sytem of patronage of Ministers by PMs, especially in (all) cases when the PM wasn’t head of party at time of the last General Election. (I can’t spare the time to write a list of all of them).
May’s coronation was an example of a poor selection system. Johnson’s election by a tiny selection of the population is an example of a different poor selection system.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Johnson was NOT leader when the Tories won the last election though, was he?
.
I recall posts on this forum from those who say they were normally Labour voters, but wouldn’t cast those votes so long as Corbyn was leader. I daresay some Tories feel the same.
.
There is no doubt that the system whereby Johnson is now PM is legal. But is it democratic?
.
Democracy is (in the real world) difficult to tie down. If we waited until we had 100% consensus we would stagnate.
With Brexit we have gone from promises of a better deal for trade with the EU, plus better deals with countries all over the world, all with no down sides!
We now have a sight of Brexit as never discussed before: No Deal, and even Patrick Minford says that’s a bad thing. Mind you Minford is more optimistic than others: after the loss of the motor manufacturing industry and agriculture as we know it, the City will recover after a few lean years… whoopi-do!
.
Yes. The job of Ministers IS within the personal gift of one person.
Not like the EU, where Commissioners are voted on by all elected MEPs.
Neither are perfect systems, but it’s the real world we’re discussing.
Once in office the Commissioners are safe from the daily whims of any PM.
Johnson or Corbyn needing a political fix, can lean on appointed Ministers. No such pressure on EU Commissioners.
.
I’m not saying the EU system is perfect. I’m not even saying it’s better.
I do say it’s different and those who shout about how undemocratic it is, without even commenting on shortcomings in the UK system are being disingenuous.The EU is no more democratic than using the combined vote of all 50 US states to decide what happens in Britain.Or asking Japanese voters to tie break a hung UK parliament.
As for changing the leader in the middle of an elected administration’s term no one voted for Churchill to replace Chamberlain or Callaghan to replace Wilson.No surprise no complaints from Remainers concerning the latter just as there were no complaints about the voting age or claims that Yes voters didn’t know what they were voting for ( bearing in mind FCO 30/1048.The fact is our system only allows the public to vote for their parliamentary MP and you know it.
Or as in this case when Parliament allows a referendum which of course the EU Federalists only had a problem with after they lost.
So tell us by your selective logic when did we ever vote for the EU President.Oh wait.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Johnson was NOT leader when the Tories won the last election though, was he?
.
I recall posts on this forum from those who say they were normally Labour voters, but wouldn’t cast those votes so long as Corbyn was leader. I daresay some Tories feel the same.
.
There is no doubt that the system whereby Johnson is now PM is legal. But is it democratic?
.
Democracy is (in the real world) difficult to tie down. If we waited until we had 100% consensus we would stagnate.
With Brexit we have gone from promises of a better deal for trade with the EU, plus better deals with countries all over the world, all with no down sides!
We now have a sight of Brexit as never discussed before: No Deal, and even Patrick Minford says that’s a bad thing. Mind you Minford is more optimistic than others: after the loss of the motor manufacturing industry and agriculture as we know it, the City will recover after a few lean years… whoopi-do!
.
Yes. The job of Ministers IS within the personal gift of one person.
Not like the EU, where Commissioners are voted on by all elected MEPs.
Neither are perfect systems, but it’s the real world we’re discussing.
Once in office the Commissioners are safe from the daily whims of any PM.
Johnson or Corbyn needing a political fix, can lean on appointed Ministers. No such pressure on EU Commissioners.
.
I’m not saying the EU system is perfect. I’m not even saying it’s better.
I do say it’s different and those who shout about how undemocratic it is, without even commenting on shortcomings in the UK system are being disingenuous.The EU is no more democratic than using the combined vote of all 50 US states to decide what happens in Britain.Or asking Japanese voters to tie break a hung UK parliament.
As for changing the leader in the middle of an elected administration’s term no one voted for Churchill to replace Chamberlain or Callaghan to replace Wilson.No surprise no complaints from Remainers concerning the latter just as there were no complaints about the voting age or claims that Yes voters didn’t know what they were voting for ( bearing in mind FCO 30/1048.The fact is our system only allows the public to vote for their parliamentary MP and you know it.
Or as in this case when Parliament allows a referendum which of course the EU Federalists only had a problem with after they lost.
So tell us by your selective logic when did we ever vote for the EU President.Oh wait.
Having 650 constituencies vote to say what happens in Tunbridge IS what happens in the UK.
.
Callaghan replacing Wilson?
Just check my posts from 1976 for my views on that.
.
The UK only allows for the electorate to vote for their particular MP? Yes, I know that. And we both know that MP can then change party allegiance or fail to follow the policy of any party they processed allegiance to etc. Yes, that’s the system. Do you suggest it’s perfect?
I would say, it works after a fashion, but would much rather see a proportional representation system in place.
Double post