dieseldog999:
malcolms have carried the same load every day since they were loading them onto horses and carts.
that one would be no different and prob a trunker lifting a loaded trailer anyway thats loaded to malcolms spec since the beginning of time.
if they put another 50 straps on each row,they would still be all over the place when lifting the trailer as the glass would be smashed to smithereens anyway,so apart from vosa and their ludicrous opinions,theres no blame on the driver/loader as no doubt the previous driver moved them without issue.
So Malcolm’s spec is above the law is it?
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their spec is their spec as they carry countless similar loads…add on 40 straps and it would still be smashed to smithereens if it tipped with no hope if it not spilling everywhere…cop yourself on.
I can’t see how you could strap a load of glass bottles so they would survive a roll over at 56 mph. Considering if if I were to drop a glass from a table it would smash to pieces, theres only so much you can do.
If Visa wanted to prosecute me for that they could have my license
Every trailer (I could load 9 in a shift) would be tied using dolly knots through every second pallet and pulled forwards. The rear would be strapped with pallets.
There is no way the load could possibly survive a roll-over.
The safest way to move these particular loads would be in a exact fit box trailer and loaded 4 at a time from a ramp. But that isn’t cost effective so, they continue to move glass in curtainsiders. It’s a numbers game, subtract the amount of lost loads to the number of successful loads and the bean counters are happy. In my opinion it should all be done in boxes but that’s never gonna happen.
nogo:
I can’t see how you could strap a load of glass bottles so they would survive a roll over at 56 mph. Considering if if I were to drop a glass from a table it would smash to pieces, theres only so much you can do.
If Visa wanted to prosecute me for that they could have my license
Exactly. It would be impossible to strap a load of bottles to survive a roll over and recovery, surely anyone can see as soon as a certain number break, and A LOT will break, the straps will just go loose
As far as I understand the regs state loads to be secured to 100% of their weight to the front so up against headboard and 50% side and rear. So if a load goes over the straps aren’t going to hold it as they are now taking 100% of the weight, and if you have a trailer built to the correct standards whatever it is XL (not just the curtains) then provide the load fits certain requirements it doesn’t have to be strapped, all that information is in the DVSA 's load security manual.
nomiS36:
If it’s anything like it was back in the 90’s when I used to backload out of rockware in donny I can’t see how any amount of strapping would save the load. All the glass will have been turned back to sand when it landed on its side then poured out the ruined curtains when they right’d it.
Same here, used to do 100’s of back loads out of Rockware in the 90’s. They had a special way of strapping the load, but you were extra careful when driving because if the load started to shift there is no way you stop it. The pallets were slippery as hell. Horrible loads.
Then out of Knottingly we used to take loads down to Reading which had no shrink wrap on because the brewery wanted it that way. You had a layer of bottles then a plastic card then another layer of bottles then another card until the pallet stood about 6’ tall, It was held down by a couple of binding straps and it was like a house of cards, if a couple of bottles shook out the straps came loose and the whole pallet would collapse.
I was a owner driver at the time and after a week hauling them I refused to do anymore.
I was a owner driver at the time and after a week hauling them I refused to do anymore.
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+1
man after my own heart.
if it was loads of hay,or loads of bottles whether sheeted with bottle sheets,normal sheets or otherwise in flats or curtainsiders my answer was always the same.
flat refusal and il bring the truck back if you want,or leave it somewhere handy.
when i was an o/d then it was just also a straight refusal.let someone else have the hassle.
Rowley010:
Malcolm’s policy on strapping that load is just a cross strap every 2 pallets. Nothing on the sides.
DVSA rules say every pallet must be strapped.
Look at that photo and who is right?
Would you, or Nina, please explain how to strap pallets with glass bottles?
Please show your workings, and use drawings as appropriate.
Easy. Don’t use a curtain sider. Use a trailer that’s suited to the job and will contain the load if it smashes into a million pieces.
And here’s a drawing for you as requested…
Very good. Unfortunately, because we don’t live in a perfect world, we have to work with what we’re given. Which is inevitably a curtainsider…
So, how do you strap a pallet of glass bottles in a curtainsider?
Rowley010:
Malcolm’s policy on strapping that load is just a cross strap every 2 pallets. Nothing on the sides.
DVSA rules say every pallet must be strapped.
Look at that photo and who is right?
Would you, or Nina, please explain how to strap pallets with glass bottles?
Please show your workings, and use drawings as appropriate.
Easy. Don’t use a curtain sider. Use a trailer that’s suited to the job and will contain the load if it smashes into a million pieces.
And here’s a drawing for you as requested…
Very good. Unfortunately, because we don’t live in a perfect world, we have to work with what we’re given. Which is inevitably a curtainsider…
So, how do you strap a pallet of glass bottles in a curtainsider?
You don’t or can’t. But if DVSA are going exactly by the rules it’s therefore not a secure load as it’s in the wrong type of trailer to contain it, just like half the stuff that’s actually taken in curtain siders. If you turned it round and went to DVSA and asked them what type or trailer should I take this in and how should secure it to comply with your rules, I’m making a guess they wouldn’t suggest to you using a curtain sider. And if you told them you had to and asked how should I secure it then, they would probably come back with some ridiculous answer of you need to ratchet every pallet.
Would think dvsa are quite well aware of the method of transporting glass bottles around the country.
Also,I’d imagine the people that carry out the work,are bang up to speed,on what does and does not satisfy regulations.
Rowley010:
Malcolm’s policy on strapping that load is just a cross strap every 2 pallets. Nothing on the sides.
DVSA rules say every pallet must be strapped.
Look at that photo and who is right?
Would you, or Nina, please explain how to strap pallets with glass bottles?
Please show your workings, and use drawings as appropriate.
DVSA rules do not state every pallet must be strapped but indeed it must be secure which is a different matter.
A tautliner is inappropriate equipment for the job and is In fact just a cheap piece of crap unsuitable for most work in my opinion and as stated by Rowley010 above.
It is merely a flat trailer with an inbuilt rain cover.
Like a flat, the load will still need to be secured with sheets and ample ropes or straps. If any type of load is unsuitable for a flat trailer then it is also unsuitable for a tautliner.
A box van as pictured will do fine but a Euroliner with 2 side rails and an XL curtain is ideal and no strap whatsoever is required if gap down the sides does not exceed 8 cm and is held by the back doors or something at the rear.
No rule states that the bottles are not allowed to break under the stress of harsh manoeuvring or an accident but the rules do like you not to dump tonnes of glass onto the innocent road users if you are unfortunate enough to have such an event.
If companies don’t want to invest in the proper equipment for the job then they should just stick to doing home heating oil deliveries in a tipper.
This Manual is 40 pages from Schmitz that explains the background, the requirements and practical examples unlike the unusable waffle in the Gov.Uk version. cargobull.com/files/com/fil … B-2016.pdf
Rowley010:
Malcolm’s policy on strapping that load is just a cross strap every 2 pallets. Nothing on the sides.
DVSA rules say every pallet must be strapped.
Look at that photo and who is right?
Would you, or Nina, please explain how to strap pallets with glass bottles?
Please show your workings, and use drawings as appropriate.
DVSA rules do not state every pallet must be strapped but indeed it must be secure which is a different matter.
A tautliner is inappropriate equipment for the job and is In fact just a cheap piece of crap unsuitable for most work in my opinion and as stated by Rowley010 above.
It is merely a flat trailer with an inbuilt rain cover.
Like a flat, the load will still need to be secured with sheets and ample ropes or straps. If any type of load is unsuitable for a flat trailer then it is also unsuitable for a tautliner.
A box van as pictured will do fine but a Euroliner with a few side rails and an XL curtain is ideal and no strap whatsoever is required if gap down the sides does not exceed 8 cm and is held by the back doors or something at the rear.
No rule states that the bottles are not allowed to break under the stress of harsh manoeuvring or an accident but the rules do like you not to dump tonnes of glass onto the innocent road users if you are unfortunate enough to have such an event.
If companies don’t want to invest in the proper equipment for the job then they should just stick to doing home heating oil deliveries in a tipper.
Yes DVSA doesn’t actually use the words every pallet must be strapped. They say must be secure. But then in the same breath they say curtains other than XL rated are weather protection only and cannot form any part of the load security.
So if your on standard curtains or even the ones that just saying load bearing (not XL en 12642) then how can anything other than straps on every single pallet secure the load as you can’t say “yeah but it’s up against the curtain so it can’t move” because DVSA say you can’t use the curtain to stop it moving sideways.
Of course if in this particular case the curtains were XL EN 12642 and not standard or load bearing ones and the back of the load was strapped then there was nothing wrong.
Rowley010:
Of course if in this particular case the curtains were XL EN 12642 and not standard or load bearing ones and the back of the load was strapped then there was nothing wrong.
It is really that simple. In any case a haulier can enquire off most trailer manufacturers how to secure any particular load in their trailer if they could be bothered.
the nodding donkey:
Very good. Unfortunately, because we don’t live in a perfect world, we have to work with what we’re given. Which is inevitably a curtainsider…
So, how do you strap a pallet of glass bottles in a curtainsider?
Nail on head there ND because you cannot do the job properly with the wrong equipment although you could rope and sheet it carefully before closing the curtains but that’s impractical.
The biggest problem is DVSA have changed their mind a few times over the years about load security because they misunderstood the regulations coming from Europe themselves.
So rather put their hand up and go out and clearly state the new securing requirements in a user friendly fashion and educate us all, they are more keen just to do roadside prohibitions and Twitter shaming.
The simple solution is follow the German’s lead on this. Fine the shipper properly if he let’s an improperly secured load out of his premises. Suddenly if you show up with a tautliner you will be sent packing.
Now the haulier can spend a little extra for the proper trailer and plan on regular work completed to the proper standard without being undercut by some backloading clown showing up with a tautliner doing the load at a loss and endangering the driver’s licence and health as well as the public at large.
Apologies for ranting but rate cutters with substandard equipment who claim they can’t afford to pay drivers who are tasked with the impossible a descent wage make my blood boil.
But even worse they can afford a donkey to to compile BS infringements for you shamefully sign and then tell you go sit on the naughty step.
Someone’s having a laugh at our expense. Of course these cowboys, clowns or cheapskates should be eliminated from road transport and let proper people do a proper job for the proper money.
