Dimlaith:
I have worked in other industries and have never encountered this degree of backstabbing.
Where? It’s rife in engineering
There was a time when workers across the board in every sector would all happily face the sack to save the job of just one victimised worker or to stop just one firm undercutting the terms and conditions of everyone.Don’t tar them all with the same brush.
I can remember many in the sector calling Hugh Scanlon a treacherous POS.Social Contract.Yeah right wage controls all in favour of the employers and at the expense of the workers.
Then Thatcher managed to convince the working class that being anti solidarity was good for them.The rest is history.
A fish rots from the head down.
Yep,.I worked in an engineering factory as a kid, and that is how it was…until the balance turned to where the tail wagged the dog, in terms of Union power.
If things had carried on, but at a sensible pace with a mutual Union/management compromise policy, at least today employees would not be abused cynically, with zero hours contracts, poor t.s and c.s, and the like.
As for transport, you can sure as hell bet drivers would not be doing 15 hour days, 80 hour weeks and such dog ■■■■ for a tenner an hour .
It’s just a pity that the Unions did not curb themselves a bit instead of eventually getting far too much power, to the point of something needing to be done, and to where it was done, to the complete opposite side of the employment spectrum, where we have virtually NO rights,.and all that was fought for was handed back in a plate…but as you say, it’s history, we have to suffer the legacy of Thatcher,.the division of working employees and the resulting symptoms…one of which is the subject of the thread.
robroy:
The job is awash with backstabbers, arse wipes, brown nosers and yes men,.all trying to be the best friend of whoever is in charge, doing any amount of demeaning tasks, usually detrimental to their well being, to gain favour, but far too thick to realise it actually gets them nowhere.
Best just to avoid them, but feed them lashings of bs to your advantage, so it gets back to the right quarters.
Good post Rob, especially the advice contained in the last sentence! Can you give me some examples of demeaning tasks that these people are willing to carry out ?
as in 50 years in the industry, I honestly can’t remember ever being asked to perform such a task. Over that time I’ve been asked to do unreasonable, stupid, impossible
and very occasionally even tasks of dubious legality (non of which I carried out I hasten to add ), but never asked to demean myself. It’s always possible that I have been asked, as I suppose everyone
will have their own take on what is "demeaning ".
robroy:
The job is awash with backstabbers, arse wipes, brown nosers and yes men,.all trying to be the best friend of whoever is in charge, doing any amount of demeaning tasks, usually detrimental to their well being, to gain favour, but far too thick to realise it actually gets them nowhere.
Best just to avoid them, but feed them lashings of bs to your advantage, so it gets back to the right quarters.
Good post Rob, especially the advice contained in the last sentence! Can you give me some examples of demeaning tasks that these people are willing to carry out ?
as in 50 years in the industry, I honestly can’t remember ever being asked to perform such a task. Over that time I’ve been asked to do unreasonable, stupid, impossible
and very occasionally even tasks of dubious legality (non of which I carried out I hasten to add ), but never asked to demean myself. It’s always possible that I have been asked, as I suppose everyone
will have their own take on what is "demeaning ".
Regards John.
As you say, it’s how you would define ‘demeaning’.
Way I see it if you blindly go along with stuff that is totally unreasonable to the point where you are letting them make an absolute ■■■■ of you,…it’s demeaning.
robroy:
Yep,.I worked in an engineering factory as a kid, and that is how it was…until the balance turned to where the tail wagged the dog, in terms of Union power.
If things had carried on, but at a sensible pace with a mutual Union/management compromise policy, at least today employees would not be abused cynically, with zero hours contracts, poor t.s and c.s, and the like.
As for transport, you can sure as hell bet drivers would not be doing 15 hour days, 80 hour weeks and such dog [zb] for a tenner an hour .
It’s just a pity that the Unions did not curb themselves a bit instead of eventually getting far too much power, to the point of something needing to be done, and to where it was done, to the complete opposite side of the employment spectrum, where we have virtually NO rights,.and all that was fought for was handed back in a plate…but as you say, it’s history, we have to suffer the legacy of Thatcher,.the division of working employees and the resulting symptoms…one of which is the subject of the thread.
The fact is the two opposing interests are so far apart that there’s no room for compromise.The employers will always see cutting back on employees’ terms and conditions as fair game to throw into the competitive tendering process.They were never going to compromise on that.
How often have we heard the words ‘competitiveness’ and ‘productivety’.
All measured by how much workload that can be loaded onto one worker for the minimum wage outlay possible.
So those like Scanlon actually took the compromise line starting with Callaghan’s social contract the rest is history.
The workers were gradually convinced by the employer classes that competing with each other in a race to the bottom was the way to go.
I’ve always said a union can’t be too militant and solidarity means being prepared to face the sack over a dispute even affecting just one person who you don’t even know, at a different firm, at the other end of the country.
If that type of solidarity is in place the rest follows naturally and vice versa compromise was/is part of the problem not the solution.
Bearing in mind that Callaghan and then Thatcher were both seen as standing for ‘compromise’ by mugs like Scanlon etc and his followers.That ended well.
It is a shame that UK drivers never had a backbone and stick up themselves when the Government change the regulations and laws , unlike the French, if they did not like how they were treated, they would paralyse the national road network and fuel supply until their government gave in .
In Europe, the government works for you but in Blighty , you work for your government, as in not using your local MP or a MEP to get them to do some work and get things changed.
The chances are now long gone to sort it , from when log books went to analog to digital, speed limiters, wtd to anything else they feel like doing , so we have drivers backstabbing their government but do nothing about it .
robroy:
The job is awash with backstabbers, arse wipes, brown nosers and yes men,.all trying to be the best friend of whoever is in charge, doing any amount of demeaning tasks, usually detrimental to their well being, to gain favour, but far too thick to realise it actually gets them nowhere.
Best just to avoid them, but feed them lashings of bs to your advantage, so it gets back to the right quarters.
Good post Rob, especially the advice contained in the last sentence! Can you give me some examples of demeaning tasks that these people are willing to carry out ?
as in 50 years in the industry, I honestly can’t remember ever being asked to perform such a task. Over that time I’ve been asked to do unreasonable, stupid, impossible
and very occasionally even tasks of dubious legality (non of which I carried out I hasten to add ), but never asked to demean myself. It’s always possible that I have been asked, as I suppose everyone
will have their own take on what is "demeaning ".
Regards John.
As you say, it’s how you would define ‘demeaning’.
Way I see it if you blindly go along with stuff that is totally unreasonable to the point where you are letting them make an absolute [zb] of you,…it’s demeaning.
Thanks for the reply Rob. If it became obvious to someone that they were been asked to do unreasonable things, to the extent that they felt the management were taking the ■■■■, and accepted the situation, I agree they would be " demeaning " themselves. It’s just I wondered what was, in your opinion, an example of a demeaning task ?
This is the number one reason I left the hgv industry that and the hours. I have been grasses on for things u would not believe, milk company I was 65 miles away from the company I was in a industrial estate a driver from the firm went past seen me having a ■■■■ against bushes and called the firm. I’ve said to a driver ( I always been agency) oh God I had a hard day yesterday full 15 was a tough day…smiled ok see u later mate, then went in office he’s slagging the company of . I’ve had drivers watching u unload and strap your trailer sitting there to grass you up. There are the lowest humans I ever met I grew up in ghetto council estates and I never ever met peool like hgv drivers. About ten percent are ok the rest are sub human.seriously imagine a man having two kids and a mortgage would u go grass him up to the boss? I have gone in to waiting rooms not have u got a day have u got a tenner but simply hi how you doing where u from. They look at u like u raped there wife or your ■■■■. The reason drivers get spoke to like ■■■■ at deliver points is drivers will take it be ■■■■■■■ but will go grass up a fellow driver . These drivers are ■■■■■ whipped they can’t go home to their wives with no job so they grass ,kiss arse ECT to keep in with the firm. I have even done tests I’ve said to a driver oh I’ll be heading back tomorrow about four I’ll just tell the office a story. I’ve gone in to get my paper work transport manager has said oh u can’t b coming back here to Early. I now know why flt drivers hate hgv drivers.
Some industries I’ve worked in you become good friends with your work colleagues, perhaps because you’re all doing the same exact same job for the same money and so the scope for preferential treatment or one-upmanship isn’t there. In the driving industry it’s the complete opposite. You have different trucks that are different ages/condition/spec, different limiter settings. Then you have the work where some runs will be deemed better than others because of traffic/customer delays/location/start & finish times. Then you have pay differences between companies, full-timers, agency and the animosity that surrounds that. All of which provides the perfect breeding ground for the jealous and nosey types who will brown-nose management and pretend to be your mate so you’ll tell them what you’re doing, what you’re driving, how much you’re on, so that they can compare with what they are doing/getting to make sure they are getting the better deal. Even the couple of “trusted” drivers you get on well with will still stab you in the back if they think they can get away with it without you finding out.
I learnt a long time ago to tell them nothing. I go in, smile and say hello to the drivers and transport office staff, maybe some very limited chitchat, then get my run and I’m straight out of the door to the truck. No standing around in the transport office, no chatting in the canteen/smoking hut/yard, no exchanging phone numbers with other drivers, no chatting with the drivers when doing change-overs other than necessities, no chatting with same-company drivers at customer premises, and the same upon return when booking off. Nothing good will ever come from hanging around the transport office, canteen etc.
Too many drivers see the job as a lifestyle and think everyone else should be the same. I don’t care for the truck nor who does what. For me it’s about maximising my pay for the least amount of hours, doing the easiest work I can find and closest to home. Once I’ve done what is asked I’m out of the door, work mode disengaged, in my car and away home. It’s the best way and your mental well-being will be all the better for it. Very few drivers seem to be able to grasp this simple concept and get embroiled in all the politics and the inevitable grief that follows.
DCPCFML:
Some industries I’ve worked in you become good friends with your work colleagues, perhaps because you’re all doing the same exact same job for the same money and so the scope for preferential treatment or one-upmanship isn’t there. In the driving industry it’s the complete opposite. You have different trucks that are different ages/condition/spec, different limiter settings. Then you have the work where some runs will be deemed better than others because of traffic/customer delays/location/start & finish times. Then you have pay differences between companies, full-timers, agency and the animosity that surrounds that. All of which provides the perfect breeding ground for the jealous and nosey types who will brown-nose management and pretend to be your mate so you’ll tell them what you’re doing, what you’re driving, how much you’re on, so that they can compare with what they are doing/getting to make sure they are getting the better deal. Even the couple of “trusted” drivers you get on well with will still stab you in the back if they think they can get away with it without you finding out.
I learnt a long time ago to tell them nothing. I go in, smile and say hello to the drivers and transport office staff, maybe some very limited chitchat, then get my run and I’m straight out of the door to the truck. No standing around in the transport office, no chatting in the canteen/smoking hut/yard, no exchanging phone numbers with other drivers, no chatting with the drivers when doing change-overs other than necessities, no chatting with same-company drivers at customer premises, and the same upon return when booking off. Nothing good will ever come from hanging around the transport office, canteen etc.
Too many drivers see the job as a lifestyle and think everyone else should be the same. I don’t care for the truck nor who does what. For me it’s about maximising my pay for the least amount of hours, doing the easiest work I can find and closest to home. Once I’ve done what is asked I’m out of the door, work mode disengaged, in my car and away home. It’s the best way and your mental well-being will be all the better for it. Very few drivers seem to be able to grasp this simple concept and get embroiled in all the politics and the inevitable grief that follows.
I wouldn’t be so dismissive mate. You might meet your future husband hanging around the coffee machine, you never know.
DCPCFML:
Some industries I’ve worked in you become good friends with your work colleagues, perhaps because you’re all doing the same exact same job for the same money and so the scope for preferential treatment or one-upmanship isn’t there. In the driving industry it’s the complete opposite. You have different trucks that are different ages/condition/spec, different limiter settings. Then you have the work where some runs will be deemed better than others because of traffic/customer delays/location/start & finish times. Then you have pay differences between companies, full-timers, agency and the animosity that surrounds that. All of which provides the perfect breeding ground for the jealous and nosey types who will brown-nose management and pretend to be your mate so you’ll tell them what you’re doing, what you’re driving, how much you’re on, so that they can compare with what they are doing/getting to make sure they are getting the better deal. Even the couple of “trusted” drivers you get on well with will still stab you in the back if they think they can get away with it without you finding out.
I learnt a long time ago to tell them nothing. I go in, smile and say hello to the drivers and transport office staff, maybe some very limited chitchat, then get my run and I’m straight out of the door to the truck. No standing around in the transport office, no chatting in the canteen/smoking hut/yard, no exchanging phone numbers with other drivers, no chatting with the drivers when doing change-overs other than necessities, no chatting with same-company drivers at customer premises, and the same upon return when booking off. Nothing good will ever come from hanging around the transport office, canteen etc.
Too many drivers see the job as a lifestyle and think everyone else should be the same. I don’t care for the truck nor who does what. For me it’s about maximising my pay for the least amount of hours, doing the easiest work I can find and closest to home. Once I’ve done what is asked I’m out of the door, work mode disengaged, in my car and away home. It’s the best way and your mental well-being will be all the better for it. Very few drivers seem to be able to grasp this simple concept and get embroiled in all the politics and the inevitable grief that follows.
You’ve hit the nail on the head there
That’s exactly it
I wouldn’t give any of the creeping backstabbers the time of day
In yard get truck and FO
At our place it surrounds who got the most o/t at the end of the month. Complainers are usually the ones that can’t do Class 2 work, can only do 8hrs a day, can’t do any weekends or late on a Friday, can’t do early starts on a Monday etc etc.
At the end of the month they then ■■■■ and moan why they haven’t been offered the o/t that is paid at double time and why did he get it when he did extra the other week.
Anything over 48hrs per week is o/t and extra shifts is double bubble. Some come away with basic salary and say they’re happy but are soon moaning behind your back that “you earned twice as much as me last month” etc
stuwozere1:
At our place it surrounds who got the most o/t at the end of the month. Complainers are usually the ones that can’t do Class 2 work, can only do 8hrs a day, can’t do any weekends or late on a Friday, can’t do early starts on a Monday etc etc.
At the end of the month they then ■■■■ and moan why they haven’t been offered the o/t that is paid at double time and why did he get it when he did extra the other week.
Anything over 48hrs per week is o/t and extra shifts is double bubble. Some come away with basic salary and say they’re happy but are soon moaning behind your back that “you earned twice as much as me last month” etc
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
They don’t see the irony in what they say , you did the extra work and EARNED the extra money .
stuwozere1:
At our place it surrounds who got the most o/t at the end of the month. Complainers are usually the ones that can’t do Class 2 work, can only do 8hrs a day, can’t do any weekends or late on a Friday, can’t do early starts on a Monday etc etc.
At the end of the month they then ■■■■ and moan why they haven’t been offered the o/t that is paid at double time and why did he get it when he did extra the other week.
Anything over 48hrs per week is o/t and extra shifts is double bubble. Some come away with basic salary and say they’re happy but are soon moaning behind your back that “you earned twice as much as me last month” etc
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
They don’t see the irony in what they say , you did the extra work and EARNED the extra money .
It’s amazing that those who can’t do more than 8hrs a day or work weekends all of a sudden can do a 15 on a Saturday if it’s o/t and not contracted
id Personally not back stab someone in the back , I’d tell them to there face , but I do have a moan now & then , I don’t see why I should be happy when the driver who starts at the same time gets back at 14.00 & I get back at 19.00 , odd time fair enough , but not every ■■■■■■■ week , so they get told
And I don’t give a ■■■■ what any one on here or anywhere else thinks , if I’m not happy I’ll tell who ever is ■■■■■■■ me off my thoughts on the subject
dozy:
id Personally not back stab someone in the back , I’d tell them to there face , but I do have a moan now & then , I don’t see why I should be happy when the driver who starts at the same time gets back at 14.00 & I get back at 19.00 , odd time fair enough , but not every [zb] week , so they get told
And I don’t give a [zb] what any one on here or anywhere else thinks , if I’m not happy I’ll tell who ever is ■■■■■■■ me off my thoughts on the subject
What’s the point of having a go at the driver for what time he gets back?..
Surely your beef is with the boss (or planners) who are getting him back and keeping you out.
dozy:
id Personally not back stab someone in the back , I’d tell them to there face , but I do have a moan now & then , I don’t see why I should be happy when the driver who starts at the same time gets back at 14.00 & I get back at 19.00 , odd time fair enough , but not every [zb] week , so they get told
And I don’t give a [zb] what any one on here or anywhere else thinks , if I’m not happy I’ll tell who ever is ■■■■■■■ me off my thoughts on the subject
What’s the point of having a go at the driver for what time he gets back?..
Surely your beef is with the boss (or planners) who are getting him back and keeping you out.
(non of which I carried out I hasten to add 