Avoid central London - area on lockdown

[carryfast]

Winseer:
I never voted for Thatcher. I never voted for Blair. I did vote for Paddy Ashdown’s Libdems for a number of elections though, both council and general.
Brexit was my first vote for “The Winner” though. Not much of a track record for someone who always votes and for 30 odd years now - is it?

It seems obvious that UKIP is the only credible candidate with all the rest being complicit in bringing Jihad onto our streets.Which of the other Parties wants to re establish the supremacy of our Nation State status and with it reinforce the security of our borders.While realising the relevance and part played by the Saudi regime in spreading Jihad across the western world and standing against it.

express.co.uk/news/politics/ … mr-al-Nimr

Which leaves the question why has Farage retired into the shadows with the job nowhere near finished.

As for Momentum’s activities no big surprise there in them just being Socialists acting true to form.

[winseer]

Farage is only one man. UKIP, alas - turned out to be anything other than a Party full of Farages, or even a Party prepared to back him all the way. It’s nothing more than a party of displaced (or “unplaced”) people, not satisfied that they have not made any personal headway in politics.

The only people who should count in a political party - are the “Do-ers” and the “Donors”.

That’s why a new party needs to be formed around Farage as the only do-er in UKIP from the start - and Aaron Banks - as the only donor of note.

The “unfinished Business” is about getting this “5th guard” sorted out. Much of that could be achieved in a single step if only the western world would realize that It’s enemy is this thing that calls itself a “Faith” but is, in fact just a ideology of “Hatred of all things Western”.

There’s no such thing as “West-acist” though. “Democracy” has reached the end of it’s tether when it’s very core values (let the enemy kill you) have become the thing that’ll lead to it’s destruction.
It wouldn’t be the first time in history that barbarism won out, and we all take a step backwards.
The end of the Prosperous Bronze Age into the War-Ridden Iron Age…
The Fall of Rome…
The Fall of pre-Islamic Arabia
The Fall of Catholicism (Pre-Protestant Christianity)
and now the Fall of Protestantism, courtesy of Militant Atheists who are happy to ally with this destructive ideology masquerading as a religion - to destroy all the other faiths on Earth.

“Submission”… Yes. To Them rather than to any “god” that atheists don’t believe in from the start. If it were a proper religion, the militant Atheists would be as against Islam as they are against all the other “infidel” faiths.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
That’s why a new party needs to be formed around Farage as the only do-er in UKIP from the start

As I’ve said a new Nationalist Labour Party which gives the Labour vote a credible alternative based on the idea that Socialism doesn’t have the monopoly on the interests of the ‘left’ would be the best way forward.Bearing in mind that having the country taken over by the interests of the Saudi rulers and their backward savage ideology allied to multi national big business,isn’t in the interests of the indigenous working class.

[ovlov_jay]

We need a party for the centre ground. Labour and Lib Dem are too far left, while anyone else other than the Cons are laughable. And as for the Cons, probably the only centrist party, but with too much emphasis on the well off in society.

We need a party that can unite the spectrum from centre left to centre right. Tax breaks for the lowest paid, and the companies who pay their workers the best wages. No more protection for the people who exploit the workforce. A party that has a true solution to the housing crisis, building social housing and changing the demographics of those entitled to it.

You’ll never pull the far left or far right, they’re both too extreme in their views. You’ll only ever capture the centre ground, and the swing voters who vote on the issues of the day.

[dieseldave]

Carryfast’s clapped out Allegro has been towed away to Bully’s impound yard.

But seriously guys, this topic started off as very newsworthy and pertinent, but it has gone way off-topic now.

[wheelnutt]

dieseldave:
But seriously guys, this topic started off as very newsworthy and pertinent, but it has gone way off-topic now.

With plenty of help form the site owners and some extreme right wing moderators here who foster and nourish an Islamophobic and xenophobic culture here.

Let’s not get into the legalities of allowing that kind of content on a UK forum.

Let’s talk about how these gullible easily persuaded not very intelligent and probably not educated individuals are actually doing the work of the the jihadists.

The main goal of groups like daesh and Al Qaeda is to sow contempt in western societies by widespread uprising of Islamophobic and xenophobic feelings. The more anti muslim the posters here become the more they themselves have been radicalised and are doing the work of the terrorists.

The modern Islamic terrorist would love nothing better for the entire Western uneducated masses to blame Islam in general for everything.

The last few pages are a testament of ill informed misplaced extreme right wing views by the ignorant fuelled by Islamic PR.

The majority here don’t foster those opinions and only the very few ignorant that can’t see what is being done to them do. They are the ones being brainwashed succesfully by the terrorists and are doing their work.

[dieseldave]

I hear you loud and clear wheelnutt, and IMHO you make some fair points.

Posters now have the opportunity to think about what they post, the reason it was moved is because it went way off-topic for a post in the main forum.

It now rests here until it gets locked/removed as the Mods see fit.

So just before anybody starts screaming about censorship and free speech etc etc, I’ll just point out that there are places where the type of posts you mentioned are allowed/encouraged (but it’s not encouraged on TN) so posters do actually have the chance to keep this topic going by posting sensibly, or using their right to free speech to post elsewhere.

[newmercman]

Wheelnutt, you refer to an extreme right wing moderator, which as I’m the only moderator to express an opinion, means you are referring to me. Now I’ll quote you “Let’s talk about how these gullible easily persuaded not very intelligent and probably not educated individuals are actually doing the work of the the jihadists.”

Your words which are directed at other members of the forum.
“Not very intelligent.”
“Probably not educated.”
This does infringe forum rules, you attack the post, not the poster, it’s really quite simple to understand.

You also like to jump to conclusions, you’ve labelled me racist and xenophobic, yet I’ve not mentioned anything that would suggest I have a problem with anybody except the people that commit acts of terrorism. In this case they happen to be Islamic Extremists, so my thoughts are directed towards those people.

They commit acts of terrorism in the mistaken belief that their jihad is going to get them special treatment in the afterlife, that is their main objective. So if they were unable to achieve that objective because of, as I suggested, burying them alongside pig carcasses and therefore being ineligible for entrance to the promised land, then maybe they wouldn’t go around committing acts of terrorism as it wouldn’t allow them to achieve their goals.

The Islamic Extremists are abhorred by the majority of Muslims, you can find a hundred videos on YouTube of hate preachers being heckled by Muslims, saying that they do not represent them, one I watched today had the elders of the Mosque nearly coming to blows with them as they wanted them nowhere near their place of worship, spouting their hate.

I’m not talking about using the pig thing as a punishment, I’m talking about it being used as a deterrent. To prevent further acts of terrorism. In this case the pig will give them big problems, which is why I used it, but if it were a different situation and people were going around blowing people up, stabbing or shooting them so they could get to heaven and play Playstation games for all eternity, my suggestion would be to bury them without fingers and thumbs so they were unable to use the controllers. It’s not about religion, race or colour, it’s about finding a suitable deterrent, nothing more, nothing less.

[the-snowman]

wheelnutt:
With plenty of help form the site owners and some extreme right wing moderators here who foster and nourish an Islamophobic and xenophobic culture here.

Let’s not get into the legalities of allowing that kind of content on a UK forum.

Let’s talk about how these gullible easily persuaded not very intelligent and probably not educated individuals are actually doing the work of the the jihadists.

The main goal of groups like daesh and Al Qaeda is to sow contempt in western societies by widespread uprising of Islamophobic and xenophobic feelings. The more anti muslim the posters here become the more they themselves have been radicalised and are doing the work of the terrorists.

The modern Islamic terrorist would love nothing better for the entire Western uneducated masses to blame Islam in general for everything.

The last few pages are a testament of ill informed misplaced extreme right wing views by the ignorant fuelled by Islamic PR.

The majority here don’t foster those opinions and only the very few ignorant that can’t see what is being done to them do. They are the ones being brainwashed succesfully by the terrorists and are doing their work.

99% of your post makes sense and is akin to what I said about 4 pages back.
Unfortunately your opening sentence labels you in with the left wing nuts who instantly yell “racist” at anyone who doesnt share their lets let all and sundry come here views. You have a point with this post but throwing insults around and calling people thick because they dont agree with you? The mark of a man with no evidence, counter arguments or evidence to support his views im afraid.
People are scared. You cant go to a busy shopping centre without worrying and now you cant even walk down the street without in the back of your mind wondering if some nutjob is going to drive a car or lorry into the crowd. Youre right, its doing the terrorist job for them to start blaming all muslims as a threat but whether you like to admit it or not, and regardless of “who started it”, people are seeing muslim terrorists appearing to operate with impunity and our esteemed leaders seemingly bending over backwards not to upset a particular religion.
Rather than calling people thick, uneducated or stupid, maybe you could keep those opinions to yourself and offer something constructive because people like you also do a terrorists work for them by yelling down anyone who comes up with an idea to deal with them as “racist” and creating a culture where everyone is scared to say anything for fear of “offending”.
It is a fact that all the recent attacks have been by muslims in the name of islam. Who started it or who feels “justified” is irrelevent and I dont particulary care who “is right”. All I know is anyone too left wing or too right wing will never come up with a way to sort it.

[carryfast]

wheelnutt:
With plenty of help form the site owners and some extreme right wing moderators here who foster and nourish an Islamophobic and xenophobic culture here.

Let’s not get into the legalities of allowing that kind of content on a UK forum.

Let’s talk about how these gullible easily persuaded not very intelligent and probably not educated individuals are actually doing the work of the the jihadists.

The main goal of groups like daesh and Al Qaeda is to sow contempt in western societies by widespread uprising of Islamophobic and xenophobic feelings. The more anti muslim the posters here become the more they themselves have been radicalised and are doing the work of the terrorists.

The modern Islamic terrorist would love nothing better for the entire Western uneducated masses to blame Islam in general for everything.

The last few pages are a testament of ill informed misplaced extreme right wing views by the ignorant fuelled by Islamic PR.

The majority here don’t foster those opinions and only the very few ignorant that can’t see what is being done to them do. They are the ones being brainwashed succesfully by the terrorists and are doing their work.

Your reaction in wanting to close down free speech is really getting silly now.I’ll ask you a question which I asked previously.Do ‘you’ agree that making Bin Laden stateless and then carrying out his ex judicial execution and then disposing of his body outside of Islamic protocols for example was right or wrong ?.I for one haven’t said anything that isn’t consistent with and in line with agreement with that type of action in ‘those’ circumstances.A simple answer to the question as to exactly where do ‘you’ stand regarding ‘that’ particular example might help to establish ‘your’ motivation on the subject in general.

Assuming you’ve answered that question then maybe you can then answer the question as to where do ‘you’ stand regarding either support or revulsion towards specifically Wahabbist Saudi and Iranian revolutionary fundamentalist Islam.Being on the side of revulsion in either or both case/s fitting the definition of freedom of speech.As proven by the documented statements in that regard by Nigel Farage at least.

[ovlov_jay]

Ok I’m going out on a limb here, but I’ll admit to being a conservative islamaphobe, or xenophobic if you prefer. But only in the sense of what the words actually mean, not the buzz words the hard left nut jobs use.

If you’re xenophobic towards a Jamaican bus driver, or a Pakistani newsagent, there’s absolutely no justification and it’s down right bigotry. That is absolutely wrong. However, in the true sense of the words, we’re all either xenophobic, hypocritical or lying.

Xenophobia means a fear of either people of another race, or their culture or politics of that culture. I think we’re all a little xenophobic towards the culture and politics of Islam, or you’re lying about it.

Islamaphobic, well I have a phobia of the politics of their culture, but I’m not a hypocrite

[newmercman]

I’m definitely not Islamophobic, the teachings of Islam are pretty much identical to those of the Old Testament and I don’t fear Christians, so why should I fear Muslims? I wasn’t scared of the Irish when the IRA were kicking off and ETA never stopped me from going to Spain.

I am however, troubled by the Islamic Extremists, the ones such as this last one and the ones that killed Lee Rigby, they’re nutters and were converted to Islam more than likely because they were nutters than any other reason.

It’s the same as the radicalism within our Prison system, what’s that all about? The Muslims that are inside doing the radicalising aren’t inside for singing too loud in the choir, they’re there for committing a crime, a crime which had it been committed in a country abiding by Sharia Law may well have resulted in a ■■■■ good thrashing or even beheading, yet they’re pontificating about the evils of us Infidels, how can you explain that?

My idea of stopping them from entering eternal paradise by use of th pig was a little flippant, I don’t claim otherwise, but it would have the desired effect. Of course it would be a contravention of their human rights, but didn’t that copper and those other people murdered in the name of Jihad have the right to go home to their families that night? Didn’t they have the right to live a full life?

It needs to be stopped and harsh measures are necessary to do it. How do you stop it? Simple, expel the hate preachers from the country or lock them up in solitary confinement if they’re British subjects, if they’re calling for people to get all jihadist and go around killing innocents then that is conspiracy to commit murder and that’s a serious crime.

Inside the prisons where a lot of radicalising is done, maybe segregate the inmates so that conversion is impossible behind bars, it’s a sticky area as the freedom to express your religion is important, but these guys are serving time for committing crimes, that does change things, they’ve lost their freedom to walk the streets etc, losing their freedom to express their religious beliefs should be something else they lose if it can prevent them from being radicalised.

Extreme measures, yes, but when ordinary people are in danger of being mown down or stabbed just for walking down the street, extreme measures need to be taken.

[carryfast]

newmercman:
I’m definitely not Islamophobic, the teachings of Islam are pretty much identical to those of the Old Testament and I don’t fear Christians, so why should I fear Muslims? I wasn’t scared of the Irish when the IRA were kicking off and ETA never stopped me from going to Spain.

The questions regarding,just how ‘moderate’ is so called moderate Islam.

Or exactly which branch and what proportion of Islam anywhere,including here,is it that doesn’t ultimately take its guidance and influence from the radical fundamentalist Wahabbist or Shia mullahs of Saudi and revolutionary Islamic Iran.As opposed to vice versa.

Is that really compatible with Western Society.

What is the real agenda behind flooding Europe with that alien potentially hostile demographic and those who support it here.

What example of European history would suggest that such an agenda won’t result in at least local Muslim majorities and with it local Sharia administrations and calls for self determination,in conflict with western democratic values and sovereignty over our own countries.

Are all fact not phobia.

As for the Irish troubles.There never was any comparison,between the level of the threat or the motivation and reasoning behind that,with that posed by the Islamic Jihadist tendency.Ironically with the exception that much of those troubles,after the setting up of the Irish Republic,could arguably be said to have been caused by an immigrant British demographic identifying with being British not Irish and going for self determination on those lines.

As for no need to fear Christianity.Probably because it’s long moved along from the days of the Spanish Inquisition and Henry V111’s anti Catholic purges.

[newmercman]

It is a weird situation, on the one hand the governments of Europe seem keen on importing Muslims from the middle east and yet on the other hand the same governments are supporting the American “war on terror” in those same countries where hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed, of which only a small minority have been justified kills.

Makes you wonder doesn’t it and it can’t come as a surprise that they’re a little ■■■■■■ off about it, maybe that’s the answer, stop blowing up their homelands and countrymen and maybe those that do come here won’t consider us as the enemy?

[carryfast]

newmercman:
It is a weird situation, on the one hand the governments of Europe seem keen on importing Muslims from the middle east and yet on the other hand the same governments are supporting the American “war on terror” in those same countries where hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed, of which only a small minority have been justified kills.

Makes you wonder doesn’t it and it can’t come as a surprise that they’re a little ■■■■■■ off about it, maybe that’s the answer, stop blowing up their homelands and countrymen and maybe those that do come here won’t consider us as the enemy?

Surely that whole premise falls down with the question why wouldn’t they understand the need for us having to do whatever it takes in the defence of Western values and trying to impose pre revolutionary Iran type moderate Islam ‘if’ they are supposedly supposedly running from the oppression of radical Islam to live in Western society ?.IE surely their loyalties should be expected to be with their adopted country not those of revolutionary Islamic Iran’s or Sunni/Wahabbist Saudi’s.Having said that even the US had to impose executive order 9066 to protect its national interest against the potential split loyalties of its ethnic axis country population in WW2.So the issue is nothing new and shouldn’t affect our ability to defend our national interests.With the simple choice to that demographic then being make up their mind where their loyalties are and if not here then go home or be interned.

While if anything we should have either hit the place harder than anything we did in Iraq etc when they chucked out the Shah and carried out the US Iranian embassy seige.With same treatment needing to be given to Saudi.Or we should have put the region into lock down by taking control of its sea routes and land routes along the lines that nothing or no one goes in and nothing or no one goes out unless we say so and let it.While any Islamic immigration to the West would/should have been expected to want to fight ‘with’ us ‘for’ moderate Islam ( pre revolutionary Iran ) and not against us by bringing their radical Islamic loyalties with them and then expect ‘us’ to apologise to ‘them’ for wanting them to enter the 20th Century when they want to stay in the dark ages.

The fact that we’ve got women walking the streets of Europe in Burkas and Hijabs is proof of radical Islam being here in itself.When pre revolutionary Iran was the definition of ‘moderate’ Islam and which we’d obviously be enforcing here if we weren’t being subjected to an agenda of appeasement for whatever reason our government’s might have.With it being anyone’s guess what that agenda is all about.

Meanwhile ‘this’ ( was ) moderate Islam and ‘that’ is what we should be telling the Islamic community here is expected of them if they want to live in western society.

youtube.com/watch?v=jpxWzXopukE

youtube.com/watch?v=dF47rrHd7wo

youtube.com/watch?v=Igf5RspaQPw

Not what’s being foisted on the Middle East let alone the Western World now.Together with telling them that we won’t tolerate split loyalties,in that it’s quite possible that their sons might be expected to be called up to fight ‘for’ this country at some point in the future ‘against’ radical Islam as it stands.Or they can zb off back home to their radical Islamic zb hole.Because we’re not in the business of importing a hostile enemy culture and agenda which may be more loyal to our enemies than to us.

While appeasement isn’t the answer to this issue and never was.With appeasement being the only possible explanation for the ridiculous contradiction in the Western World being allied with Saudi and importing its radical Islamic doctrine onto our own streets.While at the same time supposedly being at war with radical Islam.When if we were truly at war with radical Islam then post Islamic revolution Iran and Saudi would have been expected to be the first targets with the aim of imposing pre revolutionary Iranian type society across the Middle East or at least containing the problem there.