And If The UK Leaves Europe

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Franglais:
And to reinforce that point here is a BBC report

We can safely disregard anything which the laughably Pravda like Biased Broadcasting Corporation puts out here.With the exception of a few own goals from time to time when the news is just impossible to skew in favour of the zb EU zb pile.

So you think the statistics quoted by the BBC, about soaring non-EU immigration, are not accurate?

I don’t believe anything quoted by the BBC nor take any notice of its news reports because it has shown itself unfit for purpose as a supposed impartial observer and reporter.Where selling out the country to the foreign federal power of the EU is concerned among other issues.Which in this case obviously laughably translates as non EU immigration only supposedly = bad when it suits its own pro EU agenda.

The rest of the time non EU immigration = ‘refugees’ ( economic migrants ) looking for a new life which they can only possibly find in this small Island or the other richest parts of Europe.All supported and enforced by the EU on any EU state which refuses.

As for ‘decent’ hard working people yes militant 1970’s Brit workers trying to save the economy from self inflicted meltdown caused by the anti Fordist economics of both so called Labour and Tory governments.You know many of who also supported Enoch Powell’s correct views on immigration.

Carryfast:
You know many of who also supported Enoch Powell’s correct views on immigration.

The problem was that Powell trod a now-well-worn Tory path, of allowing millions in whilst in power in the 50s, then ramping up the rhetoric when out of power.

Far more maliciously however, his argument was not based on economic issues at all - as a Tory he certainly had no interest in fettering the bosses’ ability to exploit foreign labour to increase profits or force down wages - but on racism and xenophobia.

This was in the era when many whites felt they were born to rule the rest of the world, with a militantly racist regime in Rhodesia, for example.

Frankly I don’t know why ordinary people don’t just admit they are worried about their work and wages - just as it was in the 70s, when the argument was that black men were still working when white men weren’t - rather than going through the charade that it is seeing black skin or hearing foreign language which causes them such unease that they must take to the streets over the problem.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
You know many of who also supported Enoch Powell’s correct views on immigration.

The problem was that Powell trod a now-well-worn Tory path, of allowing millions in whilst in power in the 50s, then ramping up the rhetoric when out of power.

Far more maliciously however, his argument was not based on economic issues at all - as a Tory he certainly had no interest in fettering the bosses’ ability to exploit foreign labour to increase profits or force down wages - but on racism and xenophobia.

This was in the era when many whites felt they were born to rule the rest of the world, with a militantly racist regime in Rhodesia, for example.

Frankly I don’t know why ordinary people don’t just admit they are worried about their work and wages - just as it was in the 70s, when the argument was that black men were still working when white men weren’t - rather than going through the charade that it is seeing black skin or hearing foreign language which causes them such unease that they must take to the streets over the problem.

Really so if it’s supposedly all about him being a ‘Tory’ why was he kicked out of the… Tory Party.

Are you really suggesting that his trade Union support wasn’t bright enough to be supporting him for the right reasons.

You do know that he advised his vote to vote Labour. :unamused:

As for Rhodesia yes only white people can be racist and citizenship based on Jus Soli obviously only applies to those of the right colour in Soviet Socialist la la land.

Carryfast:
Really so if it’s supposedly all about him [Powell] being a ‘Tory’ why was he kicked out of the… Tory Party.

The simple answer to that is he wasn’t kicked out of the Tory party (and certainly not on account of his views on immigration)!

He left of his own accord in 1974 and joined the Ulster Unionists (apparently on account of differences with Heath, who by then had made an utter hash in NI).

Are you really suggesting that his trade Union support wasn’t bright enough to be supporting him for the right reasons.

You do know that he advised his vote to vote Labour. :unamused:

Yes, because of Labour’s stance on the common market and the promise of a referendum.

As for Rhodesia yes only white people can be racist and citizenship based on Jus Soli obviously only applies to those of the right colour in Soviet Socialist la la land.

Well I’m not aware of any society frankly in which whites are being thrown out of helicopters by a black government in order to deny civil rights to the white majority, or any society controlled by blacks in which there are black-only toilets, black-only beaches, and where only black men may lawfully be on the streets after dark.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Really so if it’s supposedly all about him [Powell] being a ‘Tory’ why was he kicked out of the… Tory Party.

The simple answer to that is he wasn’t kicked out of the Tory party (and certainly not on account of his views on immigration)!

He left of his own accord in 1974 and joined the Ulster Unionists (apparently on account of differences with Heath, who by then had made an utter hash in NI).

Are you really suggesting that his trade Union support wasn’t bright enough to be supporting him for the right reasons.

You do know that he advised his vote to vote Labour. :unamused:

Yes, because of Labour’s stance on the common market and the promise of a referendum.

As for Rhodesia yes only white people can be racist and citizenship based on Jus Soli obviously only applies to those of the right colour in Soviet Socialist la la land.

Well I’m not aware of any society frankly in which whites are being thrown out of helicopters by a black government in order to deny civil rights to the white majority, or any society controlled by blacks in which there are black-only toilets, black-only beaches, and where only black men may lawfully be on the streets after dark.

It seems clear that when Heath kicked Powell out of the cabinet that was effectively the same thing as saying he was no longer welcome among Tory ranks.

Powell advising his vote to vote Labour was clearly all about him putting the country first above the Tory Party.Just as Benn and Shore put the country first above Socialism.

Oh wait you’re supposedly not colour prejudice but suddenly colour matters regarding which colour makes up a supposed ‘majority’ among the South African born population.

Yes apartheid worked.Just like numerous examples where quite reasonable non racist people choose the option of white flight in whatever form not for reasons of skin colour but simply choice of ethnic culture.You do know that similar applies among the white Polish community choosing to live among their own as opposed to the indigenous white community here.As for the actions of Rhodesian secret service that probably had more to do with stopping Communism and with it in that case hypocritical reverse racism,from taking over the country than the skin colour of those on the receiving end.You know a bit like the SAS and Ulster death squads v their IRA counterparts

While skin colour obviously really does matter regarding who rules in South Africa/Rhodesia and the ‘re allocation’ of land property rights often including the murder of the previous rigtful owners on the same basis.On that note Rhodesia is so much better now that it’s ruled on the basis of skin colour not merit.

Carryfast:
Yes apartheid worked.

An utterly preposterous statement. In South Africa remember there was no revolution - the white regime accepted that it could no longer sustain the contradictions of apartheid, including most crucially separate living arrangements when the economy was dependent on black labour.

While skin colour obviously really does matter regarding who rules in South Africa/Rhodesia and the ‘re allocation’ of land property rights often including the murder of the previous rigtful owners on the same basis.On that note Rhodesia is so much better now that it’s ruled on the basis of skin colour not merit.

That was exactly the problem under apartheid, that Rhodesia and South Africa were run according to skin colour not merit.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Yes apartheid worked.

An utterly preposterous statement. In South Africa remember there was no revolution - the white regime accepted that it could no longer sustain the contradictions of apartheid, including most crucially separate living arrangements when the economy was dependent on black labour.

While skin colour obviously really does matter regarding who rules in South Africa/Rhodesia and the ‘re allocation’ of land property rights often including the murder of the previous rigtful owners on the same basis.On that note Rhodesia is so much better now that it’s ruled on the basis of skin colour not merit.

That was exactly the problem under apartheid, that Rhodesia and South Africa were run according to skin colour not merit.

Are you seriously suggesting that Mugabe has more merit to rule Rhodesia than Ian Smith.Or that the takeover by ZANU PF wasn’t a Soviet Union backed Communist Coup. :unamused:

It’s bleedin clear who are the raving racists here and it wasn’t/isn’t the so called ‘white’ ‘minority’ of Rhodesian citizens.

As for apartheid which part of ‘white flight’ or in fact even the Polish and many other Communities often congregating in their own areas didn’t you understand.It’s the definition of multi culturalism unlike forced integrationist failed Soviet Socialism.While unfortunately for your politically driven crusade the real world proves that generally ethnic European society is superior to many others which is why we’ve got the hypocrisy of indigenous Africans wanting Africa for the Africans at home.But also wanting to live here,because they can’t run their own countries,telling us that we have to accept them as our own.Tough deal with it.

Carryfast:

Rjan:

Are you seriously suggesting that Mugabe has more merit to rule Rhodesia than Ian Smith.Or that the takeover by ZANU PF wasn’t a Soviet Union backed Communist Coup. :unamused:

The relative merit of Smith and Mugabe was not even in consideration under apartheid, because one was white and the other black.

Mugabe was also elected, and whilst I don’t deny the Soviets helped to promote the conflict, and whilst I don’t deny Mugabe talked the talk of communism during the war, in practice Mugabe implemented no communist policies and was never considered the Soviet favourite.

It’s bleedin clear who are the raving racists here and it wasn’t/isn’t the so called ‘white’ ‘minority’ of Rhodesian citizens.

Again, utterly preposterous.

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:

Are you seriously suggesting that Mugabe has more merit to rule Rhodesia than Ian Smith.Or that the takeover by ZANU PF wasn’t a Soviet Union backed Communist Coup. :unamused:

The relative merit of Smith and Mugabe was not even in consideration under apartheid, because one was white and the other black.

Mugabe was also elected, and whilst I don’t deny the Soviets helped to promote the conflict, and whilst I don’t deny Mugabe talked the talk of communism during the war, in practice Mugabe implemented no communist policies and was never considered the Soviet favourite.

It’s bleedin clear who are the raving racists here and it wasn’t/isn’t the so called ‘white’ ‘minority’ of Rhodesian citizens.

Again, utterly preposterous.

First you said that the election of Mugabe was based on merit as opposed to Smith supposedly based on colour of his skin.Now you’re saying that it was actually all about colour.Not surprisingly when it’s your lot who talk about the ‘white’ ‘minority’ and the 'black ‘majority’ which is obviously a racist premise on your part not mine.

As for the contradiction that the Soviet Union ‘promoted’ the ‘conflict’,but ZANU PF and by definition Mugabe,wasn’t ‘their’ choice in that.You’re avin a larf.

It’s clear who’s making the preposterous case here all based on skin colour as part of a failed Soviet apologist if not support agenda.The difference between civilised Rhodesia v the racist anarchy of Zimbabwe being the result. :unamused:

Carryfast:

Rjan:

First you said that the election of Mugabe was based on merit as opposed to Smith supposedly based on colour of his skin.Now you’re saying that it was actually all about colour.Not surprisingly when it’s your lot who talk about the ‘white’ ‘minority’ and the 'black ‘majority’ which is obviously a racist premise on your part not mine.

I’m afraid you are muddled. Mugabe’s election was based on merit, at least to the extent that he garnered the most votes in a fair democratic election.

This differed from apartheid, where you could not stand for election if you were black, and you could not vote if you were black.

As for the contradiction that the Soviet Union ‘promoted’ the ‘conflict’,but ZANU PF and by definition Mugabe,wasn’t ‘their’ choice in that.You’re avin a larf.

Those are simply the facts of the matter. Mugabe was perceived to be the one least likely to disrupt white business interests, and in practice he did not.

It’s clear who’s making the preposterous case here all based on skin colour as part of a failed Soviet apologist if not support agenda.The difference between civilised Rhodesia v the racist anarchy of Zimbabwe being the result. :unamused:

Civilisation in Rhodesia was merely a veneer atop a deeply racist and exploitative regime.

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:

First you said that the election of Mugabe was based on merit as opposed to Smith supposedly based on colour of his skin.Now you’re saying that it was actually all about colour.Not surprisingly when it’s your lot who talk about the ‘white’ ‘minority’ and the 'black ‘majority’ which is obviously a racist premise on your part not mine.

I’m afraid you are muddled. Mugabe’s election was based on merit, at least to the extent that he garnered the most votes in a fair democratic election.

This differed from apartheid, where you could not stand for election if you were black, and you could not vote if you were black.

As for the contradiction that the Soviet Union ‘promoted’ the ‘conflict’,but ZANU PF and by definition Mugabe,wasn’t ‘their’ choice in that.You’re avin a larf.

Those are simply the facts of the matter. Mugabe was perceived to be the one least likely to disrupt white business interests, and in practice he did not.

It’s clear who’s making the preposterous case here all based on skin colour as part of a failed Soviet apologist if not support agenda.The difference between civilised Rhodesia v the racist anarchy of Zimbabwe being the result. :unamused:

Civilisation in Rhodesia was merely a veneer atop a deeply racist and exploitative regime.

Even Stevie Wonder could see that Mugabe’s vote was based on hypocritical reverse racism in the form of your stated premise of a so called ‘white minority’ v ‘black majority’.IE no one voted for Mugabe because he was better than Smith.They voted for him because he was the ‘right’ colour and ethnicity.Which if anyone did here on the grounds of the white majority vote you’d then conveniently shout racist when it suits you. :unamused:

While the definition of apartheid would have,if not already had,obviously developed into ethnic African rule of ethnic African areas.Just like the London vote reflects its foreign ethnic demographic of which you predictably have no issues with being the right demographic.Just as you’re an obvious apologist for zb Mugabe and his Soviet backers.Make no mistake the Socialist rabble are playing with fire having wrecked South Africa and Rhodesia,based on a typically Socialist reverse racist Social engineering crusade,by taking advantage of and corrupting the idea of self determination and multi culturalism and now wanting to do the same at home.

On that note the laughable idea,that Rhodesia was just a ‘veneer’,while the Mugabe and ZANU PF regime was/is supposedly a panacea of democracy and stability,is just part of that dangerous blind Soviet Socialist delusional crusade.Which was/is actually more about destabilising the ‘Capitalist’ enemy than making life better for Africa and Africans of whatever ethnicity.

Carryfast:

Rjan:

Even Stevie Wonder could see that Mugabe’s vote was based on hypocritical reverse racism in the form of your stated premise of a so called ‘white minority’ v ‘black majority’.IE no one voted for Mugabe because he was better than Smith.They voted for him because he was the ‘right’ colour and ethnicity.Which if anyone did here on the grounds of the white majority vote you’d then conveniently shout racist when it suits you. :unamused:

Which white man could the blacks have voted for? Under apartheid, they could not vote for a white man or any man at all. After apartheid, the only white men standing were the very people the blacks had just fought a bitter revolutionary war against in order to smash their apartheid ideology.

Your determination to view this through the rubric of racism on the part of the blacks, obtusely overlooks the background and immediate history of apartheid and racism on the part of the whites, targeted specifically against blacks.

It is this, predominantly, which explains blacks’ voting patterns, not racism against whites.

Although for those - the so-called war veterans - who had experienced the horror of the white regime, who had been beaten, tortured, or had lost friends and family, it is quite possible that this developed into a hatred of whites based purely on adverse life experience, rather than upon a science and ideology of racism, and vested interests in exploitation, as drove many whites.

While the definition of apartheid would have,if not already had,obviously developed into ethnic African rule of ethnic African areas.Just like the London vote reflects its foreign ethnic demographic of which you predictably have no issues with being the right demographic.Just as you’re an obvious apologist for zb Mugabe and his Soviet backers.Make no mistake the Socialist rabble are playing with fire having wrecked South Africa and Rhodesia,based on a typically Socialist reverse racist Social engineering crusade,by taking advantage of and corrupting the idea of self determination and multi culturalism and now wanting to do the same at home.

Mugabe was not a socialist, and he was in no alliance with the Soviets at the time of taking power or at any time afterwards.

You say the blacks wrecked South Africa and Rhodesia, you fail to consider the rank exploitation and appalling management of the whites.

It’s no different than if a man breaks into your home and chains you and your large family in the basement. He does not intend to kill anyone if he does not have to, but merely to violate you and use you for his purposes. You manage to break free, you wrestle, much valuable furniture is smashed, you suffer life-changing injuries in the process, but you finally subdue your captor and put him to the sword. You and your family are badly mentally scarred, and do not function well for the rest of your lives - some frankly go mad, others attack each other from time to time, the family business goes to the wall, and the family home deteriorates through neglect, poverty, and apathy.

Are you as the householder seriously to be blamed for the injuries and the smashed furniture, and the long term mental consequences?

Was the alternative really to accept your captor’s terms, tolerate the indignities and violations, and let him continue to do his worst, because at least there would have been order in the household, the furniture (especially that upstairs, in the quarters you no longer occupied) would be safe, and you’d at least have all been fed? Such reasoning is utterly risible.

And all this from the man who constantly rattles the sabre about the importance of sovereignty and self-determination.

On that note the laughable idea,that Rhodesia was just a ‘veneer’,while the Mugabe and ZANU PF regime was/is supposedly a panacea of democracy and stability,is just part of that dangerous blind Soviet Socialist delusional crusade.Which was/is actually more about destabilising the ‘Capitalist’ enemy than making life better for Africa and Africans of whatever ethnicity.

The Soviets had their own agenda in Africa, no more a crusade of socialism (even in the Soviets’ own terms) than the West’s agenda was a crusade of liberal democracy. So to that extent I agree with you, but no further.

And I haven’t suggested Mugabe was a panacea of democracy, although the whites struck a deal with him primarily because they believed he would provide stability for industrialists, and for a number of years he did, although there has obviously been a legacy of violence, political conflict, and low-level civil war that has not yet settled.

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:

Even Stevie Wonder could see that Mugabe’s vote was based on hypocritical reverse racism in the form of your stated premise of a so called ‘white minority’ v ‘black majority’.IE no one voted for Mugabe because he was better than Smith.They voted for him because he was the ‘right’ colour and ethnicity.Which if anyone did here on the grounds of the white majority vote you’d then conveniently shout racist when it suits you. :unamused:

Which white man could the blacks have voted for? Under apartheid, they could not vote for a white man or any man at all. After apartheid, the only white men standing were the very people the blacks had just fought a bitter revolutionary war against in order to smash their apartheid ideology.

Your determination to view this through the rubric of racism on the part of the blacks, obtusely overlooks the background and immediate history of apartheid and racism on the part of the whites, targeted specifically against blacks.

It is this, predominantly, which explains blacks’ voting patterns, not racism against whites.

Although for those - the so-called war veterans - who had experienced the horror of the white regime, who had been beaten, tortured, or had lost friends and family, it is quite possible that this developed into a hatred of whites based purely on adverse life experience, rather than upon a science and ideology of racism, and vested interests in exploitation, as drove many whites.

While the definition of apartheid would have,if not already had,obviously developed into ethnic African rule of ethnic African areas.Just like the London vote reflects its foreign ethnic demographic of which you predictably have no issues with being the right demographic.Just as you’re an obvious apologist for zb Mugabe and his Soviet backers.Make no mistake the Socialist rabble are playing with fire having wrecked South Africa and Rhodesia,based on a typically Socialist reverse racist Social engineering crusade,by taking advantage of and corrupting the idea of self determination and multi culturalism and now wanting to do the same at home.

Mugabe was not a socialist, and he was in no alliance with the Soviets at the time of taking power or at any time afterwards.

You say the blacks wrecked South Africa and Rhodesia, you fail to consider the rank exploitation and appalling management of the whites.

It’s no different than if a man breaks into your home and chains you and your large family in the basement. He does not intend to kill anyone if he does not have to, but merely to violate you and use you for his purposes. You manage to break free, you wrestle, much valuable furniture is smashed, you suffer life-changing injuries in the process, but you finally subdue your captor and put him to the sword. You and your family are badly mentally scarred, and do not function well for the rest of your lives - some frankly go mad, others attack each other from time to time, the family business goes to the wall, and the family home deteriorates through neglect, poverty, and apathy.

Are you as the householder seriously to be blamed for the injuries and the smashed furniture, and the long term mental consequences?

Was the alternative really to accept your captor’s terms, tolerate the indignities and violations, and let him continue to do his worst, because at least there would have been order in the household, the furniture (especially that upstairs, in the quarters you no longer occupied) would be safe, and you’d at least have all been fed? Such reasoning is utterly risible.

And all this from the man who constantly rattles the sabre about the importance of sovereignty and self-determination.

On that note the laughable idea,that Rhodesia was just a ‘veneer’,while the Mugabe and ZANU PF regime was/is supposedly a panacea of democracy and stability,is just part of that dangerous blind Soviet Socialist delusional crusade.Which was/is actually more about destabilising the ‘Capitalist’ enemy than making life better for Africa and Africans of whatever ethnicity.

The Soviets had their own agenda in Africa, no more a crusade of socialism (even in the Soviets’ own terms) than the West’s agenda was a crusade of liberal democracy. So to that extent I agree with you, but no further.

And I haven’t suggested Mugabe was a panacea of democracy, although the whites struck a deal with him primarily because they believed he would provide stability for industrialists, and for a number of years he did, although there has obviously been a legacy of violence, political conflict, and low-level civil war that has not yet settled.

Mugabe wasn’t a Socialist says it all.Pure unadulterated Socialist bs which shows the rest for what it is.You seem to forget I was one of ‘your lot’ before I knew better.

Are you seriously suggesting that he really looks like he doesn’t want to be there. :unamused:

cpgb-ml.org/2017/12/01/news/ … rt-mugabe/

As for South Africa and Rhodesia or anywhere else no surprise that you apply double standards between seperating ethnic European from ethnic African when it suits you while applying forced integration when it doesn’t.

The fact is Socialist social engineering,in the form of monoculturalism,doesn’t work.Just as every other form of social engineering doesn’t work whether Stalin’s version or Hitler’s or bleedin Mugabe’s.Bearing in mind that it’s ‘who’ was running Rhodesia etc that you obviously have a problem with not ‘how’ they were running it.Being all about wanting to replace ‘wrong colour rule’ with ‘right colour rule’.As opposed to sperating the two conflicting sides along self determinate lines such as the Transvaal and Orange Free State in SA which rightly allowed all the different ethnic cultures to rule themselves autonomously in their own areas.

On that note apartheid is the definition of multi culturalism.As opposed to lying Socialists hijacking the term for their own reverse racist social engineering ends.

If the indigenous community really thinks that it was being exploited under Brit/Dutch ethnic colonial rule feel free to hand the place over to China instead.What could possibly go wrong.

cnbc.com/2017/11/28/zimbabwe … ugabe.html

Carryfast:
Mugabe wasn’t a Socialist says it all.Pure unadulterated Socialist bs which shows the rest for what it is.You seem to forget I was one of ‘your lot’ before I knew better.

Are you seriously suggesting that he really looks like he doesn’t want to be there. :unamused:

cpgb-ml.org/2017/12/01/news/ … rt-mugabe/

I hardly think a puff piece from the CPGB-ML replaces serious analysis of Mugabe’s policies, but even they say:

“What was remarkable was that Robert Mugabe’s government was the first non-communist government since the French revolution to have redistributed land to the tiller.”

They also make clear his being “anti-imperialist” is the main factor in his friendly relations with the likes of Castro. You don’t have to be a socialist to dislike the Americans sticking their suckers into your society to extract profits and raw materials, and interfering in your domestic affairs.

As for South Africa and Rhodesia or anywhere else no surprise that you apply double standards between seperating ethnic European from ethnic African when it suits you while applying forced integration when it doesn’t.

And that’s not what I argued for. Arguing against apartheid is not the same as arguing that whites should leave. The argument is that whites must accept living on the same terms as blacks.

The violence and insecurity that whites now face is not altogether dissimilar to the violence and insecurity that blacks face (from one another), and those poor civil conditions prevail mostly because of the horrific hash that whites made of political management and the brutality with which they resisted reforms.

If the indigenous community really thinks that it was being exploited under Brit/Dutch ethnic colonial rule feel free to hand the place over to China instead.What could possibly go wrong.

cnbc.com/2017/11/28/zimbabwe … ugabe.html

The difference is that the Chinaman is not living cheek by jowl whilst demanding separate toilet facilities and beaches, imposing curfews, reserving even the most insignificant management jobs all for himself, and literally strutting around like he owns the place. If the Chinese do behave like that, they’ll soon sustain the same backlash.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Mugabe wasn’t a Socialist says it all.Pure unadulterated Socialist bs which shows the rest for what it is.You seem to forget I was one of ‘your lot’ before I knew better.

Are you seriously suggesting that he really looks like he doesn’t want to be there. :unamused:

cpgb-ml.org/2017/12/01/news/ … rt-mugabe/

I hardly think a puff piece from the CPGB-ML replaces serious analysis of Mugabe’s policies, but even they say:

“What was remarkable was that Robert Mugabe’s government was the first non-communist government since the French revolution to have redistributed land to the tiller.”

They also make clear his being “anti-imperialist” is the main factor in his friendly relations with the likes of Castro. You don’t have to be a socialist to dislike the Americans sticking their suckers into your society to extract profits and raw materials, and interfering in your domestic affairs.

As for South Africa and Rhodesia or anywhere else no surprise that you apply double standards between seperating ethnic European from ethnic African when it suits you while applying forced integration when it doesn’t.

And that’s not what I argued for. Arguing against apartheid is not the same as arguing that whites should leave. The argument is that whites must accept living on the same terms as blacks.

The violence and insecurity that whites now face is not altogether dissimilar to the violence and insecurity that blacks face (from one another), and those poor civil conditions prevail mostly because of the horrific hash that whites made of political management and the brutality with which they resisted reforms.

If the indigenous community really thinks that it was being exploited under Brit/Dutch ethnic colonial rule feel free to hand the place over to China instead.What could possibly go wrong.

cnbc.com/2017/11/28/zimbabwe … ugabe.html

The difference is that the Chinaman is not living cheek by jowl whilst demanding separate toilet facilities and beaches, imposing curfews, reserving even the most insignificant management jobs all for himself, and literally strutting around like he owns the place. If the Chinese do behave like that, they’ll soon sustain the same backlash.

Unbelievable.It’s clear that anti imperialist in the article means Soviet Socialist.Hence comrade Mugabe not Capitalist Mugabe.

What you’re 'arguing for is replacing an,admittedly erratic but getting there,progression towards true ‘multi culturalism’ in Southern Africa ( that between ethnic European and ethnic African ‘Africans’ ) in the form of so called apartheid.With mono culturalism and winner takes/rules all based on the idea of whichever skin colour is in the so called ‘majority’. :unamused:

As for replacing so called European ‘Imperialism’ ( some would call it civilisation ) with Chinese Communism be careful what you wish for.

As for these Commy muppets shouting racist,while at the same time pushing a version of democracy that’s based on skin colour,they couldn’t make it up.

Carryfast:
Unbelievable.It’s clear that anti imperialist in the article means Soviet Socialist.Hence comrade Mugabe not Capitalist Mugabe.

On the contrary, it is quite clear from the article that it means the opposite.

What you’re 'arguing for is replacing an,admittedly erratic but getting there,progression towards true ‘multi culturalism’ in Southern Africa ( that between ethnic European and ethnic African ‘Africans’ ) in the form of so called apartheid.With mono culturalism and winner takes/rules all based on the idea of whichever skin colour is in the so called ‘majority’. :unamused:

I’m not advocating winner takes all. And whites continued to do very good business under Mugabe, at least until latter times when the currency folded and there was renewed discontent from the “war veterans” that not much had changed.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Unbelievable.It’s clear that anti imperialist in the article means Soviet Socialist.Hence comrade Mugabe not Capitalist Mugabe.

On the contrary, it is quite clear from the article that it means the opposite.

What you’re 'arguing for is replacing an,admittedly erratic but getting there,progression towards true ‘multi culturalism’ in Southern Africa ( that between ethnic European and ethnic African ‘Africans’ ) in the form of so called apartheid.With mono culturalism and winner takes/rules all based on the idea of whichever skin colour is in the so called ‘majority’. :unamused:

I’m not advocating winner takes all. And whites continued to do very good business under Mugabe, at least until latter times when the currency folded and there was renewed discontent from the “war veterans” that not much had changed.

If anti Imperialist in the article means Capitalist why have they made the big song and dance about the welcome with Castro and crowned him Comrade.Or in fact why would he be getting such unequivocal praise to go with the title of comrade by the Soviet lobby at all.If it quacks,flies,looks like a duck.IE You really are taking people for mugs if you are trying to make the case that Mugabe wasn’t/isn’t a full on Soviet agent in Southern Africa just like his side kick Mandela was.Or that the title in question means Comrade Capitalist. :unamused:

As for winner takes all.The obvious continuing reference to rule based on skin colour one way or the other.As opposed to the seperate self determinate differing communities each respectively ruling themselves ( the true end game of so called ‘apartheid’.Says it all about the real Soviet Socialist agenda here in that regard.

As for ‘whites’,as you categorise ethnic European Africans,doing ‘well’.Really.The KGB would be proud.

biznews.com/africa/2017/12/2 … ers-herbst

Carryfast:

Rjan:

If anti Imperialist in the article means Capitalist why have they made the big song and dance about the welcome with Castro and crowned him Comrade.Or in fact why would he be getting such unequivocal praise to go with the title of comrade by the Soviet lobby at all.If it quacks,flies,looks like a duck.IE You really are taking people for mugs if you are trying to make the case that Mugabe wasn’t/isn’t a full on Soviet agent in Southern Africa just like his side kick Mandela was.Or that the title in question means Comrade Capitalist. :unamused:

Anti-imperialist doesn’t mean capitalist, it simply means anti-imperialist and anti-American.

And the problem is that Mugabe doesn’t quack like a duck.

As for winner takes all.The obvious continuing reference to rule based on skin colour one way or the other.As opposed to the seperate self determinate differing communities each respectively ruling themselves ( the true end game of so called ‘apartheid’.Says it all about the real Soviet Socialist agenda here in that regard.

The problem was that there could not be separate communities, because the economy depended on black labour, and the whites’ standard of living depended on them not harrowing the fields themselves but exploiting a much larger number of blacks who did.

If the whites performed the bottom rung of labour for themselves, then that would either have meant white labourers accepting the black labourers’ wage (a pittance, obviously), or it would have meant the white bosses having to take a massive cut in profits to meet the wage demands of white labourers (to the point where the vast majority of whites, although doing things for themselves, would be poorer overall than if they’d just stayed working for a wage in Britain).

As for ‘whites’,as you categorise ethnic European Africans,doing ‘well’.Really.The KGB would be proud.

biznews.com/africa/2017/12/2 … ers-herbst

Whites face murder? So no different than the blacks face from each other, then?

Rjan:
Anti-imperialist doesn’t mean capitalist, it simply means anti-imperialist and anti-American.

And the problem is that Mugabe doesn’t quack like a duck.

As for winner takes all.The obvious continuing reference to rule based on skin colour one way or the other.As opposed to the seperate self determinate differing communities each respectively ruling themselves ( the true end game of so called ‘apartheid’.Says it all about the real Soviet Socialist agenda here in that regard.

The problem was that there could not be separate communities, because the economy depended on black labour, and the whites’ standard of living depended on them not harrowing the fields themselves but exploiting a much larger number of blacks who did.

If the whites performed the bottom rung of labour for themselves, then that would either have meant white labourers accepting the black labourers’ wage (a pittance, obviously), or it would have meant the white bosses having to take a massive cut in profits to meet the wage demands of white labourers (to the point where the vast majority of whites, although doing things for themselves, would be poorer overall than if they’d just stayed working for a wage in Britain).

As for ‘whites’,as you categorise ethnic European Africans,doing ‘well’.Really.The KGB would be proud.

biznews.com/africa/2017/12/2 … ers-herbst

Whites face murder? So no different than the blacks face from each other, then?

Mugabe doesn’t quack like a duck.But the Soviet Socialist contingent felt that he quacks well enough to associate him with Castro and call him Comrade Mugabe. :unamused: Yeah right.

Even Stevie Wonder could see that so called ‘whites’ ( your words not mine ) face murder based on ( racist ) motives.As opposed to so called ‘black on black’ murders although in that case tribal differences obviously often replace racism.IE the Zulu spear existed before the ‘whites’ arrived and therefore could only have been meant for chucking at their own.

As for ‘blacks’ working for a lower wage than their white bosses.Yes just like I worked for a much lower wage as a shop floor worker than a design engineer.IE the latter had the brains but I had no job,or in this case food to eat and civilisation which goes with the ethnic difference territory,without him. :unamused:

trevHCS:

Rjan:
Like they already have done, frankly, after 9 years in power.

That’s the thing, so far ■■■ I know wee can bring in people from outside the EU anyway, its just we have to accept them from the EU no questions.

Don’t worry, all parties will want to ramp that. Cheap labour seems to be on all tjeir minds mostly as they are all run by very rich business people who look after their mates interests, ie: shareholders.

As fir panic about Indian labour mentioned earlier - think they are about 40 years behind and most of those people worked hard, bettered themselves and are much richer than me.

This is British government choice, try living on the continent without ID card(registration of some sort), job, health care contribution,place to live etc. UK Gov decided to open wide its doors for EE migrants, no one forced you to it. No one in UK required me to register where I live, no one asked me if I have job offer, no one asked me in NHS to see if I have made contribution payments, this open door policy is YOUR Government creation. Stop blaming EU for everything…