Franglais.
After your numerous posts on Brexit, and your then obvious allegiance to the Remain side of things, and now this, …Trust me/us …
We all get it, 
You have an obsessive hate for Johnson, illustrated by your negative biased account of his carreer, bordering on character assassination
I certainly do not agree with all their opinions and policies by any means, but the way I see it is him and his party was the best of 2 evils, and of only 2 choices at the time, ie either him or the epitome of unelective politician Jeremy Corbyn,.
Who in their right mind would want him and his circus clown cronies in charge of the UK??, even in normal times let alone this unprecedented scenario we find ourselves in.
I’ve given my opinions on all this virus officiial policy stuff on other threads, and I’ll.admit the present advice is ambiguous to say the least, but we can only play with the cards we are dealt.
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Tyneside, we live on an island… we could have shut the borders, we could have done like everyone else and quarantined/tested inbound air passengers (still not done). We could have started getting ppe as per the recommendations of the epidemic dry run from a few years ago, we could have been building up tests, we could have learned from the mistakes that Italy made.
He could have actually listened to the WHO, instead of going on holiday, sorting his divorce out and trying to crowd fund Big Ben ringing for Brexit.
With hindsight as you said, we could have gone into lockdown three weeks earlier, we could have stopped 3000 Madrid fans flying into Liverpool. We could have given clear advice from the start instead of shaking hands with patients who had Covid. We could have not sent all those test kits to the states. We could have actually bought ppe that wasn’t defective.
We could have realised that shipping old people untested into care homes was not far off manslaughter on an industrial scale.
We could have realised herd immunity means sacrifice the old and the poor.
Yes I am angry, three people I have know have died from this, my brother in law’s mother is expected to lose her life within a couple of days in Stroud hospital.
I expect a pile on now from the fanboys who will call me a snowflake, unpatriotic and anti democratic, yes I know I lost get over it…
Darkside:
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Tyneside, we live on an island… we could have shut the borders, we could have done like everyone else and quarantined/tested inbound air passengers (still not done). We could have started getting ppe as per the recommendations of the epidemic dry run from a few years ago, we could have been building up tests, we could have learned from the mistakes that Italy made.
He could have actually listened to the WHO, instead of going on holiday, sorting his divorce out and trying to crowd fund Big Ben ringing for Brexit.
With hindsight as you said, we could have gone into lockdown three weeks earlier, we could have stopped 3000 Madrid fans flying into Liverpool. We could have given clear advice from the start instead of shaking hands with patients who had Covid. We could have not sent all those test kits to the states. We could have actually bought ppe that wasn’t defective.
We could have realised that shipping old people untested into care homes was not far off manslaughter on an industrial scale.
We could have realised herd immunity means sacrifice the old and the poor.
Yes I am angry, three people I have know have died from this, my brother in law’s mother is expected to lose her life within a couple of days in Stroud hospital.
I expect a pile on now from the fanboys who will call me a snowflake, unpatriotic and anti democratic, yes I know I lost get over it…
That comes across as constructive criticism unlike Franglais post that just comes across as a hidden agenda laden, sour grape tasting hate fest.aimed at Boris Johnson personally. (imo for what it’s worth 
)
Tbf I can’t argue with what you say, let’s just hope they learn from their mistakes over this, although the last speech on lockdown relaxation left me with little encouragement. 
There is a PMq session this afternoon, let’s see what he says there after all the backlash to see if he can salvage any credibility after a hotch potch of an inconsistent unclear speech on the supposed ‘way forward’
As I said to Franglais, do you really think for one whole second that the (so called) Labour party, the ONLY other alternative would have made a better job?
robroy:
Darkside:
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Tyneside, we live on an island… we could have shut the borders, we could have done like everyone else and quarantined/tested inbound air passengers (still not done). We could have started getting ppe as per the recommendations of the epidemic dry run from a few years ago, we could have been building up tests, we could have learned from the mistakes that Italy made.
He could have actually listened to the WHO, instead of going on holiday, sorting his divorce out and trying to crowd fund Big Ben ringing for Brexit.
With hindsight as you said, we could have gone into lockdown three weeks earlier, we could have stopped 3000 Madrid fans flying into Liverpool. We could have given clear advice from the start instead of shaking hands with patients who had Covid. We could have not sent all those test kits to the states. We could have actually bought ppe that wasn’t defective.
We could have realised that shipping old people untested into care homes was not far off manslaughter on an industrial scale.
We could have realised herd immunity means sacrifice the old and the poor.
Yes I am angry, three people I have know have died from this, my brother in law’s mother is expected to lose her life within a couple of days in Stroud hospital.
I expect a pile on now from the fanboys who will call me a snowflake, unpatriotic and anti democratic, yes I know I lost get over it…
That comes across as constructive criticism unlike Franglais post that just comes across as a hidden agenda laden, sour grape tasting hate fest.aimed at Boris Johnson personally. (imo for what it’s worth )
Tbf I can’t argue with what you say, let’s just hope they learn from their mistakes over this, although the last speech on lockdown relaxation left me with little encouragement.
There is a PMq session this afternoon, let’s see what he says there after all the backlash to see if he can salvage any credibility after a hotch potch of an inconsistent unclear speech on the supposed ‘way forward’
As I said to Franglais, do you really think for one whole second that the (so called) Labour party, the ONLY other alternative would have made a better job?
I don’t know but I doubt it. I wouldn’t vote Labour at gunpoint, I am a life long tory voter until last time, where my feeling was if it is a choice of a dog turd sandwich or a cat turd sandwich, I would choose not to eat.
The reason Boris Johnson got in was ‘Get Brexit Done!’
Anybody watching his handling of Covid must surely wonder how in the hell he can deliver trade deals.
TODAY GOING FORWARD NO JOURNALISTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE COVID PRESS BRIEFINGS…
What can they be uneasy about?
Darkside:
TODAY GOING FORWARD NO JOURNALISTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE COVID PRESS BRIEFINGS…
What can they be uneasy about?
Probably because the press ask stupid questions and each one asks exactly the same question as the person that was just on
Sent while in furlough
blue estate:
Darkside:
TODAY GOING FORWARD NO JOURNALISTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE COVID PRESS BRIEFINGS…
What can they be uneasy about?
Probably because the press ask stupid questions and each one asks exactly the same question as the person that was just on
Sent while in furlough
You haven’t watched the briefings then…
Darkside:
blue estate:
Darkside:
TODAY GOING FORWARD NO JOURNALISTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE COVID PRESS BRIEFINGS…
What can they be uneasy about?
Probably because the press ask stupid questions and each one asks exactly the same question as the person that was just on
Sent while in furlough
You haven’t watched the briefings then…
Yes I do and as I said the press keep asking the same questions over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over
over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over
So now I turn over when the slides come on
Sent while in furlough
Darkside:
I don’t know but I doubt it. I wouldn’t vote Labour at gunpoint, I am a life long tory voter until last time, where my feeling was if it is a choice of a dog turd sandwich or a cat turd sandwich, I would choose not to eat.
The reason Boris Johnson got in was ‘Get Brexit Done!’
Anybody watching his handling of Covid must surely wonder how in the hell he can deliver trade deals.
Well we’ll just have to wait and see on that one.
I’m a bit different, I come from a Labour family, my parents voted Labour, and my Granda was a staunch Labour man, mostly because he was around when the Labour Party was founded in conjunction with the Trade Unions primarily and solely to represent the views of the working classes.
There is no party today that represents me and people like me.
I’m like you, I wouldn’t vote for them in their present form if I was paid, as they have lost their way and their whole reason to be.
I voted Tory for Brexit, and because I thought they were the best of two evils and I felt I could forsee the cluster ■■■■ of events that would come about if Labour got in…you think last time was bad?
The Government have just announced they will now have journalist questions today…
Darkside:
The Government have just announced they will now have journalist questions today…
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] can’t make it up
Sent while in furlough
Politicians, Holyrood and Westminster
this is worth reading.
heraldscotland.com/news/184 … ronavirus/
a brilliant article.
Oily
robroy:
Darkside:
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Tyneside, we live on an island… we could have shut the borders, we could have done like everyone else and quarantined/tested inbound air passengers (still not done). We could have started getting ppe as per the recommendations of the epidemic dry run from a few years ago, we could have been building up tests, we could have learned from the mistakes that Italy made.
He could have actually listened to the WHO, instead of going on holiday, sorting his divorce out and trying to crowd fund Big Ben ringing for Brexit.
With hindsight as you said, we could have gone into lockdown three weeks earlier, we could have stopped 3000 Madrid fans flying into Liverpool. We could have given clear advice from the start instead of shaking hands with patients who had Covid. We could have not sent all those test kits to the states. We could have actually bought ppe that wasn’t defective.
We could have realised that shipping old people untested into care homes was not far off manslaughter on an industrial scale.
We could have realised herd immunity means sacrifice the old and the poor.
Yes I am angry, three people I have know have died from this, my brother in law’s mother is expected to lose her life within a couple of days in Stroud hospital.
I expect a pile on now from the fanboys who will call me a snowflake, unpatriotic and anti democratic, yes I know I lost get over it…
That comes across as constructive criticism unlike Franglais post that just comes across as a hidden agenda laden, sour grape tasting hate fest.aimed at Boris Johnson personally. (imo for what it’s worth )
Tbf I can’t argue with what you say, let’s just hope they learn from their mistakes over this, although the last speech on lockdown relaxation left me with little encouragement.
There is a PMq session this afternoon, let’s see what he says there after all the backlash to see if he can salvage any credibility after a hotch potch of an inconsistent unclear speech on the supposed ‘way forward’
As I said to Franglais, do you really think for one whole second that the (so called) Labour party, the ONLY other alternative would have made a better job?
RobRoy, I don’t hate Johnson.
Life is too short for nonsense like that.
I do think his track record shows him to be a consistent liar and muddler.
My post mostly listed examples of his failings, not name calling or invective.
Forgetting party politics and Brexit I did say that May and Thatcher were hard working and honest. I don’t agree with their stands on many things but accepted them as sincere PMs. I don’t accept Johnson as being the same.
I thought that “character assassination” was a process of denegrating a person. Referring to a person’s actual history is not this, so I think your charges are wrong.
tyneside:
Franglais:
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Dunno if I am “constantly having a go at Boris”?
Most of my post was a potted history of him.
If you find that a criticism by implication? Then I agree with you, serial liars are worthy of being criticised.
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Can`t un-see from where we are now, can we? Everything I could say would be tinged with hindsight.
So,you are not prepared to give us the benefit of your wisdom on how you would have dealt with the problem but always have plenty to say about those in charge, remember you started the whole thread with the words Covid & Brexit!!
Tyneside
Dark side has already suggested much.
I would repeat that we were letting travellers in from a known infected area, Italy, with no checks for too long.
We had teams of trackers and tracers set up, but there’s have been underused.
During the 1919 flu pandemic history clearly shows that those who locked down early fared best. We had plenty of notice but did too little.
Johnson personally set a bad example by boasting he was still shaking hands when the virus arrived. His cabinet didn’t obey their own guidelines.
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The Gov have been spinning PPE figures and testing figures like mad. But they are useless. Testing is only a useful tool combined with prompt tracing of contacts. Testing has already dropped. A quick spurt to make a story, then brush it under the carpet.
In 2014 there was a report on the UK’s readiness for a pandemic. Although not openly published as other ones were, it showed lack of investment. This is NOT the fault of the present administration but it symptomatic of the consistent underfunding of the NHS, especially by the Tories.
A Country is NOT a Company.
They are different entities and should be run differently. Companies are there to make profit for a small number of shareholders. Countries are there to support ALL of their citizens.
There is so much ■■■■■■■■ in the media owned by business, supporting business, and demonizing any individuals or others who go against the aims of business, it is a disgrace.
Too many of the public are being fed crap about flawed, but honest people, whilst liars are given a pat on the back for “being one of the lads”.
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The current messages coming out Downing St are a shocking confusing mess of contradiction and waffle.
Talking about some imaginary Brexit future where we are transported back yo the heady days of Empire, are not the same as talking of the detail needed in the day to day running of a country.
Winning votes has been achieved by Johnson. He is good at that. That doesn’t (unfortunately) mean he is going to be good being PM.
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In January this Gov was banning some news reporters from the lobby. They were refusing to put ministers on the “Today” programme. They showed themselves to be anti democratic and frit.
Now things are changing, but the characters of the individuals involved stays the same.
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blue estate:
Darkside:
blue estate:
Darkside:
TODAY GOING FORWARD NO JOURNALISTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE COVID PRESS BRIEFINGS…
What can they be uneasy about?
Probably because the press ask stupid questions and each one asks exactly the same question as the person that was just on
Sent while in furlough
You haven’t watched the briefings then…
Yes I do and as I said the press keep asking the same questions over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over
over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over
So now I turn over when the slides come on
Sent while in furlough
And the same ministers FAIL to answer that question.
Over and over and over…
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into [zb] overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
I think that the Gov does have a problem there: If they say the lockdown will end in “X” days time then some will jump the gun. So they cannot warn in advance.
So, why didn`t Johnson say nowt? Giving notice, but of something indefinite is really the worst possible thing.
Bad information management by the PM. Are you saying he is expecting the press to not report and comment on PMQs? Come on.
But the press are not reporting are they? They are speculating and by doing so publishing opinion not fact yet not making that clear. There was nothing wrong with reporting what was said but to then try to second guess the government’s moves is wrong and creates confusion, to then blame it on the government is cowardice on their behalf for not admitting their mistake. Hmmm, press criticise PM for not admitting his mistakes and then blame him for theirs and wonder why stories that are ■■■■■■■■ spread so fast pot, kettle black springs to mind.
Your thoughts on Merkel? rates have shot up in Germany over the weekend is she now to be demonised? Friday she was being held up as a shining example of how to govern Monday morning might tell a different tale, but more than likely the German press will take a more mature view than ours.
Ive no thoughts on Merkel, on this. I dont know enough to comment.
German press versus ours? Ha! German press again, I know nowt. I think we have some good responsible reporters, but too many who are (as previously pointed out) *********s!
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A couple of examples of bad reporting from the two flagship programmes on R4, tonight on PM the guy who started Phones 4 U was being interviewed about relaxing restrictions, he spoke for 2 to 3 minutes then Evan Davies summarised by saying “So for you it’s all about the economy” to which the interviewee said “No that’s not what I said” a natural assumption from Davies that a business man is only interested in money. The other on Friday’s Today programme when interviewing the head of the armed forces he was asked a blatant political question, any journalist will know that the head of the armed forces cannot answer a political question so an obvious attempt to trip him up. At the moment it is all about point scoring they publish daily with glee that the testing target is being missed, but they never either ask or state why there could be many reasons why the target is not being hit, perhaps not enough people putting themselves forward? But according to MSM it’s the governments fault but is it? We don’t know because they are not asking the right questions the daily briefings have become a joke with each journalist asking the same question instead of beforehand having a conflab and agreeing to ask different questions which would lead to more information coming out they just go into full repetition mode. The government are not the only organisation not having a ‘good crisis’
[/quote]
So an interviewee answered a loaded question, and his reply was broadcast for all to hear? Good.
If Ministers are repeatedly asked the same question, then maybe they should try to give a clear answer? Wouldn’t that be novel!
We have had mutterings about the lifting of lockdown from Johnson at PMQs, followed by denials and “clarifications”. Then a statement Sunday eve about a return to work Monday, followed by Raab talking of Wednesday…it’s a ■■■■ up.
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It didn’t matter during the Brexit campaign because they were only interested in getting the massage to those who would vote for them. The target audience of their spin would fill in the blanks themselves…and then some! How many still believe in £350m a week? How many thought “controlling borders” meant keeping out EU workers without realising it allowed even cheaper labour from further away in?
During the Brexit and Gen Election campaign it didn’t matter that some news outlets had them rumbled. Now they are actually in Gov and trying to do a real job, it DOES matter, and this Gov are finding it hard.
Being so used to pro Brexit news papers giving his speeches uncritical coverage, Johnson is starting to be seen by some as a one trick pony. Good at electioneering, nowt else.
But with the clock ticking those after a Hard Brexit must be laughing…
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Edit to try and fix quotes
Did anyone seriously expect the slightest hint of competence and good reasoning from our govt, there’s barely a handful on either side of the ailes in the house i’d trust to tell the time, a bunch of chimps running a nuclear power station would be safer than letting these clowns run the country.
Good govt in our parliamentary system relies on competent opposition, sadly it’s a toss up whether the cabinet or the front bench of the opposition is the more pointless, why did people vote for these people, it’s bizarre.
Don’t come out with the old excuse of better than the other lot, that’s why parliament is filled with these incompetents, i utterly refuse to vote for the least worse, if you go into a shop and they don’t have anything worth buying you walk out again without buying, so why pray have people been continually voting for decades on end for the most distasteful incompetent chancers imaginable.
I refuse to partake in this choice of losers, and thanks to Farage once again betraying the only alternative i spoiled my ballot, the previous (May’s) election i couldn’t even be arsed to waste my time spoiling the ballot, that was after a lifetime of voting at every opportunity, they have finally shown to even the most blinkered that democracy in this country is dead and we racing at breakneck speed into a despotic regime complete with politicised police doing the bidding of ministers/apparatchiks.
We have ladies and gentlemen the govt that you voted for, when the country you wake up to in a few years time you barely recognise, and the true agenda being currently played out finally dawns on you, have a good long look in the mirror for the person to blame, you’ve had the chance in elections going back many years to get rid of these people and every single time you voted the same lot back in again…better this bunch than the other lot…they promised me more free stuff…i’ve/family always voted for the identikit party.
Brexit is a mere sideshow now, our PM was until a few weeks ago a dyed in the wool europhile, but like most tories (politicians generally) changes opinions to suit the moment, i’m not disappointed in him because i never expected anything from him, nor any of the motley crew he leads.
When we walk away without paying some back of ■■■ packet calculation of £39billion ‘fine’ to the EU, with our fishing grounds intact (patrolled diligently by any RN ships still afloat, dunno what the illegal immigrant ferry service will be used for), and the EU arrest warrant scrapped, then we will have left the EU, until then we haven’t…there is no such thing as leaving politically (weasel words), we are either in or we are out.
I agree with Juddian,above,and for what it’s worth I spoiled my ballot paper too.
oiltreader:
Politicians, Holyrood and Westminster
this is worth reading.
heraldscotland.com/news/184 … ronavirus/
a brilliant article.
Oily
A good read. I can’t comment on the Scots aspects too much, but he is spot on with his praise of Jacinda Ardern.