107 C1E restriction on UK-FULL HGV /CE licence

Hi Guys at Trucknet.

The other day while having a few minutes to spare

I was checking out just what the restriction codes on my UK Drivers License mean.

and found this handy website to help me: Driving licence codes - GOV.UK

without which they are just a bunch of meaningless numbers.

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Well, I was stunned to discover that alow holding full (current) CE entitlement

That I have a " 107 " restriction on C1E ( 7.5 tonner + Trailer )

My guess is, because I have C1 / C1E by “Grandad Rights”

( i.e simularly to “BE”, it just came as a bonus when I passed my “B” car test )

That Im automatical limitied to 7.5 tonne’r in Wagon & Drag ( maxium combined MASS of 8250 KG )

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Not that Im ever likely to be asked to drive a 7.5 tonner plus drag /trailer

But If this is standard practice, for drivers who have aquired C1E by “Grandad Rights”

I feel that we ALL should be aware of what the implications are:

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Hence my questions are:

a) Im I correct ( because I have C1E by “Grandad Rights” a restriction “107” is mandatory )

b) Does my CE entitilement automatically over ride the 107-restriction for C1E
( i,e if I was stoped driving a 7.5 tonner plus drag,
with a combined wieght greater than 8250kg, would I be proscuted )

best regards: de Jon ( Still coming up with the questions )

As you have pre 1997 entitlements as well as DSA C+E test pass entitlements then this is what you have …

Pre 97 all with expiry date at age 70
C1
C1+E 107

DSA test pass all with medical expiry dates
C1
C1+E
C
C+E

As C1 is a subcategory of C and C1+E is a subcategory of C+E then the subcategories on your licence are hidden

DSA categories trump pre 1997 ones

ROG:
As you have pre 1997 entitlements as well as DSA C+E test pass entitlements then this is what you have …

Pre 97 all with expiry date at age 70
C1
C1+E 107

DSA test pass all with medical expiry dates
C1
C1+E
C
C+E

As C1 is a subcategory of C and C1+E is a subcategory of C+E then the subcategories on your licence are hidden

DSA categories trump pre 1997 ones

Thanks " Rog"

That is what I beleaved,
i.e so long as my CE remains valid, it automatically "Trump"s the “C1E 107” restriction.

How-ever, as I felt it worth bringing up here on in the Truck-net forum, in order to clarify it !.

de Jon … ( Keeping a eye on the tread )

PS: Still waiting to hear if the C1E 107 restriction is standard practice
for everyone like me, who has C1/ C1E by “Grandad Rights” ( pre 1997 licence )

DoubleQ:
i.e so long as my C & CE remain valid, they automatically “Trump” the “C1E 107” restriction.

You got it

You are correct on both counts.

I passed my class 1 in 1974 and have the same restriction because,as you say, when the C1 and C1E classification was brought in the official line was that I received these classifications by grandfather rights. Illogical but I have had several communications with DVLA over this issue and they will not budge.

I am now nearing 65 and will probably not renew my CE licence because of the cost of annual medicals but a medical is not needed on the C1E until I am 70 so the 107 will apply once I do not renew my CE which does not seem logical to me and the whole thing is contrary to information that DVLA are issuing at the moment in this gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories.

Another anomaly is that the unrestricted C1 category on my licence allows towing combinations up to 12000k whereas the C1E is restricted to 8250k !!

I am about to contact DVLA again about this but will undoubtedly come up against the usual stonewalling of officialdom because nobody can be arsed to sort thing out clearly and logically.

This will probably not matter to me as I am now retired but could be important to others.

I think its silly they took implied rights away from people, some 7.5tonners are abit on the big side but anyone that would actually drive one or pull a big car and trailer will either be switched on enough and pick it up very quickly or have someone show them the ropes. My mate tows a big boat trailer on a b license and is legal on the grounds that the MAM isnt more than the weight of the car and the outfit is under 3.5ts (only just), i sat next to him at first and gave some pointers and within an hour he was perfectly competent.

Thanks " matamoros "

It now appears that C1E with 107 restriction is standard practice for everyone in our situation.

Lo, as you say,

Another anomaly is that the unrestricted C1 category on my licence allows towing combinations up to 12000k whereas the C1E is restricted to 8250k !!

Absolutly, They are in contradiction to each other, dont make any logical sense whats so ever.

Unless of course there are some “C1” category rigid’s hinding out out there somewere,

plated up to 12000kg (without a trailer)

de Jon ( keeping a eye on the tread )

matamoros:
Another anomaly is that the unrestricted C1 category on my licence allows towing combinations up to 12000k whereas the C1E is restricted to 8250k !!

The unrestricted C1+E allows for a GTW of 12 tonnes not the C1

The unrestricted C1+E allows for a GTW of 12 tonnes which means this is legal
Lorry 7.5 GVW + trailer 6.5 MAM but loaded to an actual weight of 12 tonnes

The above example is not legal for the C1+E 107 because the GVW + MAM add up to 14 tonnes and the limit for the 107 code is a total of 8.25 tonnes

For a 107 code C1+E these are legal examples
7.5 GVW + 750 kgs MAM trailer
5 tonnes GVW + 3.250 kgs MAM trailer

A C1 vehicle may have a GVW of 7.5 tonnes and a GTW listed as 12 tonnes which means for licence purposes it is a C1 without a trailer over 750 kgs
Licences do not go on the GTW of the vehicle but the GVW

Somebody recently had a great laugh at a copper on a NSL SC road when they stopped the 7.5 tonner they were driving for going 10 mph over the 40 limit because it had a 12 tonne GTW !!! - I kid you not
Cop walked away from that scene a little embarrassed …

This is what it says in the link I posted earlier:-

Licences issued 1976 - 86
Vehicles you can drive
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1

Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1E

So why has 107 restriction been placed on my licence ? Is this information misleading as it implies that if your licence was originally issued prior to 1986 then C1 and C1E are essentially identical and that this definition of C1 is the one that applies to my C1 on a licence issued in Jan 2013.

matamoros:
This is what it says in the link I posted earlier:-

Licences issued 1976 - 86
Vehicles you can drive
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1

Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1E

So why has 107 restriction been placed on my licence ? Is this information misleading as it implies that if your licence was originally issued prior to 1986 then C1 and C1E are essentially identical and that this definition of C1 is the one that applies to my C1 on a licence issued in Jan 2013.

Seems that the old group A incorporated many different licence categories which is why it has been done that way
Old hat now because they have been scrapped and replaced with the latest categories

ROG:

matamoros:
This is what it says in the link I posted earlier:-

Licences issued 1976 - 86
Vehicles you can drive
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1

Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg C1E

So why has 107 restriction been placed on my licence ? Is this information misleading as it implies that if your licence was originally issued prior to 1986 then C1 and C1E are essentially identical and that this definition of C1 is the one that applies to my C1 on a licence issued in Jan 2013.

Seems that the old group A incorporated many different licence categories which is why it has been done that way
Old hat now because they have been scrapped and replaced with the latest categories

So the new definitions apply no matter when your original licence was issued, this is not very clear in the information issued by DVLA.

Thanks for clarifying that but I still think that the 107 restriction applied to old class 1 licence holders is illogical and wrong.

matamoros:
I still think that the 107 restriction applied to old class 1 licence holders is illogical and wrong

It never has and never will apply to those who pass a test which is higher

A 107 code against the C1+E only comes into force when no other category supercedes it - that has and will always be the case so I fail to see your thinking on this ■■

The old HGV class 1 also incorporated all the lower categories which were unrestricted but the drivers still had the free pre 97 ones as well

ROG:

matamoros:
I still think that the 107 restriction applied to old class 1 licence holders is illogical and wrong

It never has and never will apply to those who pass a test which is higher

A 107 code against the C1+E only comes into force when no other category supercedes it - that has and will always be the case so I fail to see your thinking on this ■■

The old HGV class 1 also incorporated all the lower categories which were unrestricted but the drivers still had the free pre 97 ones as well

If you look back to my previous podts the problem arises because the different ages of medical requirements. C1E a medical is not required until 70, I will not be renewing my CE licence next year when I am 65 because of the cost of annual medicals/renewal fees, so I will have a 107 restriction on my C1E licence despite having driven max weight trucks for 40 years. As I said, this will probably not affect me but could affect others.

matamoros:

ROG:

matamoros:
I still think that the 107 restriction applied to old class 1 licence holders is illogical and wrong

It never has and never will apply to those who pass a test which is higher

A 107 code against the C1+E only comes into force when no other category supercedes it - that has and will always be the case so I fail to see your thinking on this ■■

The old HGV class 1 also incorporated all the lower categories which were unrestricted but the drivers still had the free pre 97 ones as well

If you look back to my previous podts the problem arises because the different ages of medical requirements. C1E a medical is not required until 70, I will not be renewing my CE licence next year when I am 65 because of the cost of annual medicals/renewal fees, so I will have a 107 restriction on my C1E licence despite having driven max weight trucks for 40 years. As I said, this will probably not affect me but could affect others.

Think of it this way … you were lucky to get those free pre 97 categories - these days anything above B needs a DSA test to be passed

“Think of it this way … you were lucky to get those free pre 97 categories - these days anything above B needs a DSA test to be passed”

I’m sorry but I can’t think of it that way, I have passed a test for every category of vehicle that I am currently licenced to drive and because of beurocracy I will have a restriction placed on my licence that I have passed a test for and currently legally entitled to drive.

matamoros:
“Think of it this way … you were lucky to get those free pre 97 categories - these days anything above B needs a DSA test to be passed”

I’m sorry but I can’t think of it that way, I have passed a test for every category of vehicle that I am currently licenced to drive and because of beurocracy I will have a restriction placed on my licence that I have passed a test for and currently legally entitled to drive.

But you do not have that restriction whilst the higher category is valid !!

When you lose the categories (by choosing not to do the D4 medical) where you got them by passing the DSA tests then you still have the free ones which all those who passed after 97 will not have

I do not get why you are unhappy about that ■■?

I do not have any free ones. I passed a class 1 test in 1974 which became a C&E which as you have said trumps a C1 &E (now changed to CE & C1E).
Correct me if I am wrong but currently passing class C gives entitlement to unrestricted class C1 and then passing CE gives unrestricted entitlement to class C1E without having to pass tests for C1 and C1E.

Because I passed my class 1 test before C1 and C1E even existed I am being unfairly restricted when I choose not to renew my CE entitlement.

matamoros:
I do not have any free ones. I passed a class 1 test in 1974 which became a C&E which as you have said trumps a C1 &E (now changed to CE & C1E).
Correct me if I am wrong but currently passing class C gives entitlement to unrestricted class C1 and then passing CE gives unrestricted entitlement to class C1E without having to pass tests for C1 and C1E.

Because I passed my class 1 test before C1 and C1E even existed I am being unfairly restricted when I choose not to renew my CE entitlement.

If you passed class 1 in 1974 then you DO have the pre 1997 free ones - if they are not showing on your photocard then you need to contact DVLA now

Stop renewing the D4 medical and you WILL get left with pre 1997 C1 and C1+E(107) which do not need a D4 medical until age 70

Your assessment of what covers what is correct because C1 and C1+E are subcategories of C and C+E

On you current photocard it should list
B
BE
C1
C1E 107
D1 101
D1E 101 119
All of those will have the same expiry date = age 70

C
CE
Those two will have the same shorter expiry date = when current D4 medical expires