No more criticism please. Enough people have died already.
At last the REAL cause of people’s deaths - is now recognized. BOTH sides of politics have simply “penny pinched” rather than pay farmers the top dollar they are entitled to for the land in question.
Any “Council” arguing that “farmers wouldn’t sell, so we made to difficult decision that is killing people instead” - has clearly been talking through their collective hats.
There are compulsory purchase orders for acquiring such badly-needed land for infrastructure projects, after all…
I’ll continue to ignore hard shoulders marked as “live”.
The stretch I’m most often on is M1 J13-J10 stretch SOUTHbound, during the morning rush hour.
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
The bit happening at 2m into this vid - shows you what too many other motorists are like with regards to “managed motorways”.
They can only be as managable as the people driving on them!
Try and keep up Winseer , this is the third thread on this subject.
That’s 2 missed opportunities for you to use your famous ‘‘I drive an instrument of death’’ crack.
Still say you should be pulled and nicked for bad lane discipline.
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the ■■■■■■■■ not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the [zb] not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the [zb] not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
Exactly, …as I keep saying, smart motorways admittedly are not 100% ideal, but they are not the cause themselves of the problem, it’s the users.
Mainly the incompetents who are too thick to use them as intended, and the self righteous pricks who flatly refuse to use them as intended…both are as bad as each other imo.
I despise Highways England senior management with a passion but they are not entirely to blame. Poor driving standards cause collisions. In my experience, the majority of live lane breakdowns are avoidable, ran out of fuel, puncture (that can be driven on) and when people breakdown in live lane they don’t call 999, they don’t get out of the vehicle and behind the barrier. People are saying the hard shoulder is safe. How many people have been killed on the hard shoulder. Drivers make any road dangerous. BUT HE didn’t put more resources into Smart motorways. They need more control room operators to monitor Smart motorway sections. My old control room often ran below minimum staffing levels. They needed more on road patrols and be allowed to patrol, not park up. The Government wanted it done on the cheap. Smart motorways require more resources from Highways England, more education for drivers on how to use them, decided on one system and stick with it ( either All Lane Running or nothing) , Do away with dynamic hard shoulder, it confuses drivers, but the main thing Smart motorways need are drivers driving at an appropriate standard which the majority don’t !!
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the [zb] not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit. Your options are to barge in anyway, slow down/stop then wait for a gap that’s not coming any time soon or continue (illegally) on the hard shoulder. You also only get 1/2 a mile advance notice (which takes 30 seconds to cover at M-Way speeds), not a mile.
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the [zb] not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit. Your options are to barge in anyway, slow down/stop then wait for a gap that’s not coming any time soon or continue (illegally) on the hard shoulder. You also only get 1/2 a mile advance notice (which takes 30 seconds to cover at M-Way speeds), not a mile.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
Rule of thumb ‘React and adapt’ and if everybody done this there would be very few problems.
Roymondo:
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit.
I drive those regularly, never encountered a problem. You’ve clearly visible overhead signs warning you of their ending you can see from quite a distance and they give you well over half a mile notice with road markings and roadside signs that they’re ending which again is plenty of time to whack on the right indicator and wait for a gap to open up and you’ll find those who drive that stretch regularly will let one open up in front of them for you to move into, especially the cars. The end of the smart hard shoulder doesn’t just instantly appear from nowhere. Certainly in a truck there’s no excuse for not seeing it.
Roymondo:
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit.
I drive those regularly, never encountered a problem. You’ve clearly visible overhead signs warning you of their ending you can see from quite a distance and they give you well over half a mile notice with road markings and roadside signs that they’re ending which again is plenty of time to whack on the right indicator and wait for a gap to open up and you’ll find those who drive that stretch regularly will let one open up in front of them for you to move into, especially the cars. The end of the smart hard shoulder doesn’t just instantly appear from nowhere. Certainly in a truck there’s no excuse for not seeing it.
Another truck in front of you? Unfamiliarity with the road? Heavy traffic conditions taking focus away from road signs?
Whilst I might agree with you in principle, I myself have been stuck in lane one behind stationary traffic waiting to leave the motorway a good mile or so before any notification. Very difficult to get a 44 ton vehicle out of stationary traffic into a 40mph flow of vehicles.
The problem I had above was on a road I travel frequently, only usually I do it much later in the day. On this occasion I was travelling at rush hour and the conditions caught me by surprise. Lesson learnt.
Roymondo:
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit.
I drive those regularly, never encountered a problem. You’ve clearly visible overhead signs warning you of their ending you can see from quite a distance and they give you well over half a mile notice with road markings and roadside signs that they’re ending which again is plenty of time to whack on the right indicator and wait for a gap to open up and you’ll find those who drive that stretch regularly will let one open up in front of them for you to move into, especially the cars. The end of the smart hard shoulder doesn’t just instantly appear from nowhere. Certainly in a truck there’s no excuse for not seeing it.
There may well be no excuse for not seeing it (although see below) - but that’s not Winseer’s point, is it? He’s talking about having to deal with the fall-out from the actions of other drivers who do fail to anticipate what is happening (regardless of whether they have any excuse).
As for there being “plenty of time…” try it when the “Smart” features are not in operation. As you approach J11 at Luton (Northbound or Southbound), you obediently move into Lane 1. As you pass the on-slip, the very first indication you’ll get that the lane you are in is about to become hard shoulder is the roadside sign 200 yards before the merge - and you certainly cannot see that at half a mile distance owing to the curve of the road. I went through there Northbound at lunchtime today and that was exactly what I saw.
Like yourself, I’ve never had a problem there because, like you, I am familiar with the road layout, how/when it changes and what to look out for, resulting in me moving out well in advance of the merge. But not everyone has the benefit of this “local knowledge”, and they are the drivers who have the problems outlined which result in the pile-ups.
With regards to the car in that second video being in lane displaying a red x and nearly hitting the broken down vehicle, they need to make the fines and points incredibly severe for being in a red x lane. No excuses. Hitting people’s wallets is the only language they understand. Huge fines, 6 points a time in your licence will soon show motorists how serious it is to ignore a red x.
Winseer:
Even on this stretch - you have to mind out for those people who DO choose to drive on the hard shoulder, only to be marooned there just as the lane drop comes, and traffic in front of me in lane 2 - won’t let them in, or don’t realize that a “force merging” is about to happen.
Never had it happen to me. You get more than a mile of notice, you just put your right indicator on and wait for a space to develop. You’ve plenty of time. If anyone gets marooned its the [zb] not paying attention who suddenly decides to finally look at an overhead sign when they’re right on top of the junction. And even then they’re only marooned because they’re not following the Highway Code and choosing to stop instead of eating humble pie and leaving at that exit.
It’s a sad state of affairs when it appears the IQ of the road you’re driving on is higher than some of the drivers.
But Winseer was specifically talking about the now-you-see-it, now-you-don’t “Smart” hard shoulder on the Southbound M1 J12-10. At the points said lane disappears there is no junction, so no opportunity to “eat humble pie” and take the exit. Your options are to barge in anyway, slow down/stop then wait for a gap that’s not coming any time soon or continue (illegally) on the hard shoulder. You also only get 1/2 a mile advance notice (which takes 30 seconds to cover at M-Way speeds), not a mile.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
Rule of thumb ‘React and adapt’ and if everybody done this there would be very few problems.
You are indeed correct, however you presume that everyone with a licence has the capacity to do that…They do not, so instead of bemoaning those that do not, perhaps we should accept the reality of the situation and stop innocent members of the public dying by making changes that allow everyone a fair chance at survival…Or would you rather accept that deaths are inevitable and carry on regardless?
I can`t help feeling that if they had spent the money on a proper effective system, instead of speed cameras, perhaps these roads would have been safer for everybody.
You are indeed correct, however you presume that everyone with a licence has the capacity to do that…They do not, so instead of bemoaning those that do not, perhaps we should accept the reality of the situation and stop innocent members of the public dying by making changes that allow everyone a fair chance at survival…Or would you rather accept that deaths are inevitable and carry on regardless? I can`t help feeling that if they had spent the money on a proper effective system, instead of speed cameras, perhaps these roads would have been safer for everybody.
Jakey…your latest mate may or may not talk sense, but he does make some illogical statements sometimes,.and if backed into a conversational corner, rather than answer and explain them, he chooses to attempt to bamboozle you with a pretentious smart arse answer, well he did with me and I’m STILL.waiting for an explanation…just saying.
robroy:
Jakey…your latest mate may or may not talk sense, but he does make some illogical statements sometimes,.and if backed into a conversational corner, rather than answer and explain them, he chooses to attempt to bamboozle you with a pretentious smart arse answer, well he did with me and I’m STILL.waiting for an explanation…just saying.
Hey Robbie, I thought you said you would stop the Jakey bit. First of all he ain’t my mate.
I don’t have mates on here.
I just agree with some of what he said. OK.
Apologies for the crudeness of the drawing, but you can clearly see that because the drivers eyeline is below the top of the vehicle in front, their view of over head signs is restricted. Obviously, this problem is exacerbated for cars who are lower down and probably closer, but even professional drivers who are travelling at a safe distance have SOME of their vision obscured.
Can’t believe I had to explain that to you jake, I thought you knew more than me.
, this is the third thread on this subject.
