So the scenario is I’m contracted for 45 hours a week bit I, and everyone else, always end up doing more. I’d say I average 60hrs a week.
But holiday pay only gets paid at a standard 45hr contracted week so you end up taking quite a hit for wanting to be off work for a week.
Before I challenge it I’m looking at facts that I can present. I’m certain that even though it’s not guaranteed overtime the fact that every week myself and others are over 45hrs means it should be calculated in the holiday pay? I don’t get an option to stand down at 45hrs so it’s assumed I’ll just carry on.
I used to know the ins and outs of this.
It’s supposed to be averaged out over the previous 12 weeks or so but im sure there’s something about the type of overtime being done. Would need to check that.
About you taking a hit when taking time off…that was a HUGE part of why this was brought into law. Used to be cleaners, dinner ladies…etc on 16 hour contracts mainly through local authorities who were doing 50/60 hours a week. They found they couldn’t afford to take their holidays so in some cases were losing their entitlement and nit even getting any. Some got into financial difficulties through taking them. I’m sure theres more groups out there that were affected but this was a huge one.
Don’t let them fob you off with the bs.
Check the ACAS website and then raise a grievance.
There seems to be a strange situation that there is no law to say that holiday must be paid at average(for the 4 weeks) but if you took them to a tribunal you like others have previously would win due to precedents set.
There is only downside, and no upside to such an arrangement.
It encourages workers to go flat out all the time, and take their holidays in a predictable pattern, rather than short notice, or when people might actually want to take their holidays.
The pattern encouraged is “work 12 weeks, take one week off. Work 12 weeks, take one week off” which provides the optimium holiday pay.
On agencies using such an arrangement - the FULL hourage counts towards that holiday pay, so if you do 50 hours averaged over 12 weeks - your week off will also be 50 hours.
Not so for Full Timers though, who as OP has already pointed out - "Do 60 hours - get credit for only having done the “basic 45 hours in full”.
Winseer, I’ve been looking into this myself lately. You don’t have to be predictable to maximise your holiday pay. The 12 week reference period omits any holidays and includes extra time previous to compensate for it.
So if you had a week off in the last 12 they’d go back 13 weeks and leave out the holiday when calculating your average earnings.
I was thinking more along the lines of when you have the occasional “light week”, that gets averaged in when you keep doing over 48 hours week in, week out…
If every week is at least 45 hours guaranteed, then it won’t make much difference - I see where you’re coming from there.
It was the “standdown” weeks I was thinking of. If you didn’t get any credit for doing 60 hours, getting paid 45 instead, then I would have imagined that a “standdown week” where you might only do 34 hours - might drag the average down… Unless you’re paid for the 45 of course!
You might well get paid on FT, but not on Agency there.
toonsy:
So the scenario is I’m contracted for 45 hours a week bit I, and everyone else, always end up doing more. I’d say I average 60hrs a week.
But holiday pay only gets paid at a standard 45hr contracted week so you end up taking quite a hit for wanting to be off work for a week.
Before I challenge it I’m looking at facts that I can present. I’m certain that even though it’s not guaranteed overtime the fact that every week myself and others are over 45hrs means it should be calculated in the holiday pay? I don’t get an option to stand down at 45hrs so it’s assumed I’ll just carry on.
OK the facts are that the Employment Appeal Tribunal ruled in 2015 and in subsequent cases that when it comes to calculating holiday pay everything apart from expenses has to be included so they have to include overtime and the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled if you get any commission or bonuses they have to include all of that as well when calculating the average. The EAT then ruled the CJEU ruling on commission also applied to the UK.
If you are only getting 45hrs then they’re breaking the law. What you should be getting is the total of the last 1/12 of the last 12 weeks taxable pay shown on your wage slip.
It was McBurney drivers via Unite Union won the Tribunal case about 4yrs ago.
I do know up until last year Woodsides ignored 12wks av ruling but their drivers went to Tribunal also and won.
Woodsides had to back pay right few bonuses etc.
…Overtime isn’t compulsory, but that doesn’t help you if you’re 4 hours out, and about to come to the end of your otherwise 11 hour, (with one hour break) shift.
If you don’t fancy the overtime, then there’s always the opportunity for an impromptu night out.
LostSomeWhere:
AA Recovery DO NOT pay average holiday pay
I believe it’s because OT is not compulsory
If you’re expected to complete the job you are doing or you are expected to accept jobs assigned to you near the end of your shift which don’t give you enough time to get back to base then it is compulsory.
LostSomeWhere:
AA Recovery DO NOT pay average holiday pay
I believe it’s because OT is not compulsory
If you’re expected to complete the job you are doing or you are expected to accept jobs assigned to you near the end of your shift which don’t give you enough time to get back to base then it is compulsory.
You don’t take the job then and you are wrong all is taken into account for 12 weeks before holidays they would be breaking some kind of law if they dont pay it
toonsy:
Cheers chaps it’s r9ughly what I’ve seen/know myself but at least I’m not going mad lol.
Next question is how to raise it…
Walk in and ask to see manager, say you were told the above, say you’ve done some research and it appears what you were told was correct, present proof (ideally from the ACAS website) and ask how they intend to remedy the situation including paying what they owe from previous holidays.
toonsy:
Cheers chaps it’s r9ughly what I’ve seen/know myself but at least I’m not going mad lol.
Next question is how to raise it…
Walk in and ask to see manager, say you were told the above, say you’ve done some research and it appears what you were told was correct, present proof (ideally from the ACAS website) and ask how they intend to remedy the situation including paying what they owe from previous holidays.
Although back pay can go back up to two years. If theres a period of 3 months with out a holiday. Your employer can count that as a starting point for back pay and not go back any farther. So to get the full two years worth of back dated holiday pay you must have taken at least a day off on holiday within 12 weeks of the previous one.
Big Truck:
It was McBurney drivers via Unite Union won the Tribunal case about 4yrs ago.
I do know up until last year Woodsides ignored 12wks av ruling but their drivers went to Tribunal also and won.
Woodsides had to back pay right few bonuses etc.
I can confirm that. I work for Woodsides and even the lads who had left but still qualified got their entitlements backpaid.
