Please can anyone advise/inform me as to how many miles a set of rear brake pads for an 18 ton Actros should last? We had a brake warning light come on so took it to the local garage. They replaced the rear brake pads and then informed us that the warning light was still on so that would need replacing as well. We asked the question as to whether the brake pads required replacing in the first case but they of course said they did. We asked that they leave the pads for inspection which they did. The vehicle had only done 100,000 kms since they were last replaced. Any thoughts??
Superficially the one pad we can see looks no more than 1/3 to 1/2 worn, but the surface condition is not very clear, nor are any other pads shown. Rear pads cannot be seen properly with the wheels in place. It is not a good idea to rely solely on the visible tell tale since one pad of a pair could be almost non existent. With the warning light on, although one could wind the caliper adjustment off for a better view, they probably pulled the wheels off . Since this is not necessarily as easy as it sounds - they stick fast on the hub - having spent that time getting the wheels off they probably decided to reline anyway.
If they had told you that having taken the wheels off for a better look and decided to leave alone would you have quibbled about paying the labour involved? 100,000km sounds reasonable to expect the pads to be ready to be replaced.
It seems a little strange that having found a problem with the warning light circuit the vehicle was returned, unless of course they were pressured to do so.
May be merc bought up he remains of DAFs old pad looms …Pads look fine the one in the pic wouldn’t put a warning on …A simple check is wind all the calipers back ,(workshop environment ,wheels chocked etc ) if the light is still on after you cycle the ignition then it is a wiring / caliper issue…Generally I find it’s the steer axle to fail as it flexies the loom with the wheels turning left and right
When the brake pads are replaced this needs to be reset in the vehicle computer so it knows the pads are new. The caliper sensor will then predict and notify of the wear rate and replacement time. It takes a few hundred km’s to calculate this but there will be no warning lamp lit. Generally rear pads on tractor units were lasting 145k to 165k.
In just under 100,000km, usually well freighted and on mainly very hilly terrain and a lot of single track roads, my brake pads, according to the dash display, have worn on average by around 35%.
However, the one good thing this ■■■■■■■ Scania has is a retarder. I don’t really think it’s any better in operation than the VEB, but by the left, it fairly saves on brakes and undercrackers , to the extent that my sphinter is getting quite out of condition! u
Plenty of meat left but fairly low on the customer shafting scale IMO.
I agree it makes sense to put new in if they’ve had some with that mileage out anyway. Fresh pads can easily make the difference between test pass and fail on the park brake.
One question. After the pads were initially replaced was the pad wear indicator reset with the m/benz software because if not then it will show say 25% pad left when in fact you have 100%. Due to the fact that the m/benz epb [ebs] system uses the pad wear info to adjust braking across the axles this could cause excessive braking on the other axles when not actually required to even out the pad wear across the vehicle. The guys that changed the pads should have checked this [as it should be rest after every pad change]. Unfortunately not many places do because the equipment is expensive but it has to be checked. The pads in the pic were they sensed [wear indicators] and which axle were they from?.
Thank you for your replies. I’ve now had the bill and although the pads were not dear I’ve been charged £1040.00 (18 hours) for the labour replacing the pads and locating the fault with the sensors and loom. It was the O/S/R wheel.
I am not a mechanic at all - merely a removal man. The problem I seem to encounter with garages is that I pay for every minute they spend diagnosing a problem - even if it is at first incorrectly diagnosed (some mechanics/fitters are more experienced than others). It seems that the worse they are at diagnosing, the more it costs! Even if I obtain an estimate for repairs, there’s always something else. When I give an estimate for a removal, that is the price no matter if it takes longer than expected (unless of some major unforeseen or untold circumstance). Garages and solicitors charge after the event and there’s normally sweet FA that you can do about it!
Ask for a meeting with the service manager and give merc a call,explain your concern ,You may get a reduction in the hourly rate or something .Works at our place all the time …Though where I am Merc are not very helpful at all ,but I don’t know if that is the same across the country
norb:
Ask for a meeting with the service manager and give merc a call,explain your concern ,You may get a reduction in the hourly rate or something .Works at our place all the time …Though where I am Merc are not very helpful at all ,but I don’t know if that is the same across the country
Mercedes has a strict code of not sharing information with other repairers. As technicians your access passwords are changed periodically so that Mercedes controls your access to information. When you leave a Dealership your access is removed almost before you’ve loaded your tools!
Rough rule of thumb is anything less than 30 percent remaining needs changing, you can run them much lower but Ive found the heat cannot then dissapate and the tappet boot gaiters then split, so the money you saved on getting another 20k on the existing pads is lost with the cost of the new gaiters.
Most heavy pads have 20mm lining thickness when new, so spprox 7mm is the change time, thats lining only not including the backplate.
100k is pretty low but would depend on the work, where I used to work we saw a lot of merc rigids that carried workwear and they liked rear pads a lot.
On the upside the wiring is a lot better than the Dafs
If the problem is still there you need to speak to the guy in charge, you will be surprised just how much they will move.
I would guess that pad in your hand has approx 14/15mm lining left?
Moonraker:
Thank you for your replies. I’ve now had the bill and although the pads were not dear I’ve been charged £1040.00 (18 hours) for the labour replacing the pads and locating the fault with the sensors and loom. It was the O/S/R wheel.
I am not a mechanic at all - merely a removal man. The problem I seem to encounter with garages is that I pay for every minute they spend diagnosing a problem - even if it is at first incorrectly diagnosed (some mechanics/fitters are more experienced than others). It seems that the worse they are at diagnosing, the more it costs! Even if I obtain an estimate for repairs, there’s always something else. When I give an estimate for a removal, that is the price no matter if it takes longer than expected (unless of some major unforeseen or untold circumstance). Garages and solicitors charge after the event and there’s normally sweet FA that you can do about it!
Ok, I’II revise my opinion that’s a ■■■■■■■■ for what boiled down to a pad change an wear sensor lead.
It sounds like they may have run into problems being unfamiliar with the need to reset the system but I agree you don’t pay for them to educate themselves.
You can see why operators go for new vehicles and fixed R&M packages now, that bill IMHO is taking the proverbial, and as for pads needing changing they look fine for another couple of year to me, but this also highlights the need for properly specified retarders and employing drivers who don’t drive on the bloody brakes, though best of luck finding them.
As for the dealers being helpful, if our local dealer experience is anything to go by they are by far the most unhelpful by a country mile, i’ll be surprised if we have another from that brand for this reason alone.
In the OP’s shoes i’d be looking for a good commercial garage who trades on good service and values their reputation, whether they specialise in one specific make or not.
I have managed to obtain a reduction of £400.00 from the dealer as apparently I was being charged the incorrect hourly rate. It still seems excessive to me but I do believe they spent a long time in diagnosing what would appear to be a relatively minor electrical fault. Also, did I really require new brake shoes after just 100,000 kms?
Its all well and good trying to find a reliable local garage but because every bloody fault has to be analysed by a computer, the garage often ends up taking it to the main dealer to put on their computer to analyse or clear the fault, it often costs more as a third party is involved as well.
Your first post mentioned ‘local garage’, now you are saying that you got a credit from the ‘dealer’ since you were charged the wrong hourly rate. That sounds like a typical dealer get out. You have also said that the labour-only charge was £1040 for 18 hrs work. £57.77 sounds an odd amount for a dealer’ hourly rate, that seems more like an independent garage’s rate. So which was it? A dealer might well be screwed right down to £35+hr for labour to leasing companies and tolerate that for volume on single brand, but an independent will not have the volume to do it unless there are only two or three employees and then it will be a struggle.
Sorry for the confusion. It is the local Mercedes garage who are a branch of a larger dealer 30 miles away. I am supposed to be paying £58.00 per hour. You are correct - the figures don’t add up and I am still trying to understand it. I am awaiting the amended invoice.
Hi There
have worked for many dealers and would tend to agree with whats being said. time to replace 1 axle pads [x4] 1-1&11/2 hrs time to diagnose fault 1 hr flat rate. Most decent diagnostic kit will tell you which sensors faulty and where in the line and any self respecting fitter would have the job done in 2-2& 1/2 hrs. I reckon the garage you used don’t have the diagnostic equip required and spent hours trying to figure out what happened before going to the dealer for diagnostic test and then repairing the fault. You should not be held liable for your local garages inability to own and use proper diagnostic equipment nor the extra time taken due to this fact because then the local guy is offering you a service he cannot provide. I suggest you get a copy of his invoice from the dealer for the diagnostic and add on maybe 2 hours and parts then that should be all you should have to pay. Also where do you get a local that charges around 25% more than a dealer per hour. Something is not right and I sure as hell would not accept it.
More than likely imbalance across the axle.Any more than 20% flags the light.
But if you got a rehostat down on the caliper this this will flag the light.
You can buy the caliper sensor for about 9 quid and the cable for 7.
You do need the reader to set the sensor to zero but you can borrow one if you know somebody in the know.
Does not look like the pads are buggerd to me.
Just some main agent screwing your ■■■.
mooseman16:
One question. After the pads were initially replaced was the pad wear indicator reset with the m/benz software because if not then it will show say 25% pad left when in fact you have 100%. Due to the fact that the m/benz epb [ebs] system uses the pad wear info to adjust braking across the axles this could cause excessive braking on the other axles when not actually required to even out the pad wear across the vehicle. The guys that changed the pads should have checked this [as it should be rest after every pad change]. Unfortunately not many places do because the equipment is expensive but it has to be checked. The pads in the pic were they sensed [wear indicators] and which axle were they from?.
■■■■■■■■ the rehostat self sets as with all nor bremse units
Moonraker:
Thank you all for your helpful replies.
I have managed to obtain a reduction of £400.00 from the dealer as apparently I was being charged the incorrect hourly rate. It still seems excessive to me but I do believe they spent a long time in diagnosing what would appear to be a relatively minor electrical fault. Also, did I really require new brake shoes after just 100,000 kms?
Its all well and good trying to find a reliable local garage but because every bloody fault has to be analysed by a computer, the garage often ends up taking it to the main dealer to put on their computer to analyse or clear the fault, it often costs more as a third party is involved as well.
400 quid Are they taking the ■■■■?
How much was the bill?
Could change a set of rear pads in an hour.
Jesus christ are you people being screwed or what?
50 quid an hour,to me.is a bit over the top but where do these clowns get their prices?
u
