Are we heading for subscription driving? It seems the new world order have ever more devious ways of parting you from your hard earned. The software in the new tech cars is going to be a goldmine for car manufacturers especially as the new BEV’s wont need as much servicing/parts etc, The huge dashboard infotainment screens will be packed with software features but we’re heading into an era where you’ll need to pay a subscription fee to activate them via OTA (over the air)
I was amazed reading about one chap the other week who was driving a new BMW 530e at night & wanted to try the ‘high beam assist’ when he pressed the button he was presented with a message saying it will cost £179 to initiate it & a QR code to pay by mobile phone twitter.com/_jakegroves/status/ … 24/photo/2
I think that as more people move away from fossil fuel powered vehicles road pricing will come as governments will need to find a way to replace the lost revenue from the reduced sales in diesel and petrol, no government is going to give up that amount of revenue and not look to recoup it in some way.
I don’t get why battery cars are so expensive, without all the extras the Germans have been charging (no pun) for since the age of mass production commenced.
Engine itself and ever more complicated exhaust system rammed with systems and sensors, gearbox of ever increasing complication meaning ever descreasing periods of reliable service plus a clutch or drive engagement system of whatever form it takes, fuel tanks and piping cooling systems etc, all missing on an EV.
There’s so much missing in an EV that they should be around half the cost of an equivalent ice car, its the presently cheap electric supply due to not being taxed with equivalent road charges that makes them even worth considering, once the fuel taxes get added to already increasingly expensive electricity people will soon find out the real costs involved.
Fuel taxes and road charges?, does anyone seriously think its going to affect any of us here when the plan is complete, we ain’t planned to be driving our own privately owned cars wherever we like in the new world, no Zil lanes for plebs.
Talking of equivalents, i’d read that Tesla body build quality wasn’t exactly to Lexus standards but seeing as i’m not in the least interested in the marque, nor in any other battery car, i’d not looked for myself, but followed a brand new Tesla on the way home through the town yesterday, the bootlid must have been aligned by Stevie Wonder or maybe the neaside three quarter panel was lower than the offside because the shut lines looked right but the lights on the nearside shut line didn’t line up compared to the offside by a good half an inch, or 12mm’ish.
Juddian:
I don’t get why battery cars are so expensive, without all the extras the Germans have been charging (no pun) for since the age of mass production commenced.
Engine itself and ever more complicated exhaust system rammed with systems and sensors, gearbox of ever increasing complication meaning ever descreasing periods of reliable service plus a clutch or drive engagement system of whatever form it takes, fuel tanks and piping cooling systems etc, all missing on an EV.
There’s so much missing in an EV that they should be around half the cost of an equivalent ice car, its the presently cheap electric supply due to not being taxed with equivalent road charges that makes them even worth considering, once the fuel taxes get added to already increasingly expensive electricity people will soon find out the real costs involved.
Fuel taxes and road charges?, does anyone seriously think its going to affect any of us here when the plan is complete, we ain’t planned to be driving our own privately owned cars wherever we like in the new world, no Zil lanes for plebs.
Talking of equivalents, i’d read that Tesla body build quality wasn’t exactly to Lexus standards but seeing as i’m not in the least interested in the marque, nor in any other battery car, i’d not looked for myself, but followed a brand new Tesla on the way home through the town yesterday, the bootlid must have been aligned by Stevie Wonder or maybe the neaside three quarter panel was lower than the offside because the shut lines looked right but the lights on the nearside shut line didn’t line up compared to the offside by a good half an inch, or 12mm’ish.
Yes I’ve seen a lot of Tesla cars online where the shut lines/panel gaps are appalling for such an expensive car the fanbois will buy any old ■■■■■ from Tesla.
Juddian:
I don’t get why battery cars are so expensive
There’s so much missing in an EV that they should be around half the cost of an equivalent ice car, its the presently cheap electric supply due to not being taxed with equivalent road charges that makes them even worth considering, once the fuel taxes get added to already increasingly expensive electricity people will soon find out the real costs involved.
Battery costs of around $100 per kwh storage capacity is a clue.Obviously + VAT on the purchase price.
Added to 16p per kwh for the electric at real world meter price not a rip off loss leader + road fuel duty + 20% VAT.
A gallon of petrol contains almost 10 kwh.
An I phone battery lasts me two years approximately before it drops below 85% efficiency. 85% sounds still quite good, but believe me it isn’t. I’d be lucky to get more than 6 hours usual use before it went flat. I can have the battery replaced for around £20. How much would a similar Tesla battery cost me?
No axe to grind either way tbh, just curious as battery life and replacement (and presumably disposal of said batteries) seems to be the elephant in the room.
Hopefully enterprising chaps in garden sheds will work out how to refurb batteries as the time approaches.
There is or was a chap in the UK who was a dab hand at reconditioning Honda hybrid batteries and i’ve seen youtube videos of recon packs via mail order on an exchange basis in the USA for Toyota hybrids which a confident handy home mechanic would be quite capable of refitting into their own car, for all i know for both types there’s a vibrant cottaging industry busily doing this valuable trad, there could be a good living to be made reviving duff battery packs in the future.
By the way Maoster, after finally admitting defeat and buying into smart phone, i ended up with a CAT S41 tough phone couple of years ago, the battery of which lasts me 3 to 5 days in normal use and around a month on standby type use when i’m on holiday.
Android not as easy to use as iphone i’m told but even modern tech avoiding me is finding me way about it.
The fact is EV’s aren’t going to be viable to run on a budget.
With hindsight the whole Lease/Purchase, auto only driver instruction agenda has been about conditioning the customer base to the brake and go driving technique and an enforced 2 or 3 year replacement regime required for EV’s.
Which will collapse when they realise that Lease Purchase was based on a viable used car market which will no longer be there.
I foresee some type of coercion being used to get people out of the proven superior ICE powered vehicles first before trying to foist inferior EV’s and all the costs which go with them, onto a sceptical market.
Eventually resulting in private transport automotive use as we know it becoming extinct.
Like going all electric for domestic heating it will prove to be economically unviable.
Except even worse because of the battery cost and road fuel tax elephant in the room.
the maoster:
An I phone battery lasts me two years approximately before it drops below 85% efficiency. 85% sounds still quite good, but believe me it isn’t. I’d be lucky to get more than 6 hours usual use before it went flat. I can have the battery replaced for around £20. How much would a similar Tesla battery cost me?
No axe to grind either way tbh, just curious as battery life and replacement (and presumably disposal of said batteries) seems to be the elephant in the room.
There are a few companies nowadays that refurbish EV battery packs or upgrade smaller battery packs for larger ones particular Nissan Leaf’s, Crashed leaf’s in scrapyards are in great demand by these guys who buy them all up, There’s a company in Holland who manufacture an electrical component piece of equipment to make a 40Kwh battery work in a leaf that had a 24Kwh battery pack for a fraction of the price of a new main traction battery pack.
the maoster:
An I phone battery lasts me two years approximately before it drops below 85% efficiency. 85% sounds still quite good, but believe me it isn’t. I’d be lucky to get more than 6 hours usual use before it went flat. I can have the battery replaced for around £20. How much would a similar Tesla battery cost me?
No axe to grind either way tbh, just curious as battery life and replacement (and presumably disposal of said batteries) seems to be the elephant in the room.
There are a few companies nowadays that refurbish EV battery packs or upgrade smaller battery packs for larger ones particular Nissan Leaf’s, Crashed leaf’s in scrapyards are in great demand by these guys who buy them all up, There’s a company in Holland who manufacture an electrical component piece of equipment to make a 40Kwh battery work in a leaf that had a 24Kwh battery pack for a fraction of the price of a new main traction battery pack.
What’s the weight of the 40 kwh battery v the original 24 kwh and what’s the design weight of the Leaf ?.
40 kwh x 16p + road fuel duty + 20% VAT + the cost of the battery pack.
As opposed to around 5 gallons of petrol.
Some interesting reading about what will replace VED by the end of this decade. The new proposals being talked about will cover Weight of vehicle, Distance driven will cover the road infrastructure costs, The time you drive will cover Congestion & pollution costs.
“In evidence submitted to MPs on the Transport Committee, which is conducting an inquiry into road pricing (it has yet to publish its findings), Greener Transport Solutions says that, to coincide with the ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars, Government should announce that fuel duty and VED will be scrapped from 2030 and replaced by a mandatory road user charge based on distance and time.”
"It suggests a distance charge of 2p per km for cars, and an average of 3p per km for vans and 6p per km for lorries. The charge for lorries and vans would increase in line with weight per axle and wear and tear to the road surface.
For cars a flat rate charge of 2p per km is recommended as the weight of a car is marginal to the damage inflicted on road surfaces." fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest … ive-change
lancpudn:
Some interesting reading about what will replace VED by the end of this decade. The new proposals being talked about will cover Weight of vehicle, Distance driven will cover the road infrastructure costs, The time you drive will cover Congestion & pollution costs.
“In evidence submitted to MPs on the Transport Committee, which is conducting an inquiry into road pricing (it has yet to publish its findings), Greener Transport Solutions says that, to coincide with the ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars, Government should announce that fuel duty and VED will be scrapped from 2030 and replaced by a mandatory road user charge based on distance and time.”
"It suggests a distance charge of 2p per km for cars, and an average of 3p per km for vans and 6p per km for lorries. The charge for lorries and vans would increase in line with weight per axle and wear and tear to the road surface.
For cars a flat rate charge of 2p per km is recommended as the weight of a car is marginal to the damage inflicted on road surfaces." fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest … ive-change
‘Greener Transport Solutions’ like all the rest of this scam are just a pro nuclear, pro rail anti road use mouthpiece and this false flag anything but Conservative government and PM are performing for the LibDems better than Ed Davey could have dreamed of.
This agenda is all about removing the premise on the freedom to travel except for the chosen rich elite just like any Communist run basket case.
Play Socialist games win Socialist prizes as the useful idiots will find out.
Road pricing per mile is a much fairer way to charge road users. Why should I pay the same for my 150miles a week use, as somebody who doing double or treble that?
And why is a sort of shared use scheme so bad? Where is the sense in owning a car, which only sits on the drive, or in the company yard all week, ?
Like it or not, stick your head in the sand, but reality is, we have only a finite source of raw materials on this planet, one environment, and an increasing population (despite nature’s best efforts…) wanting more and more.
If they’re going to bring it in, I would like to see 1p for the inside lane, 2p for the second lane 3p for the third lane etc.
That would sort out lane discipline!
the nodding donkey:
Road pricing per mile is a much fairer way to charge road users. Why should I pay the same for my 150miles a week use, as somebody who doing double or treble that?
And why is a sort of shared use scheme so bad? Where is the sense in owning a car, which only sits on the drive, or in the company yard all week, ?
Like it or not, stick your head in the sand, but reality is, we have only a finite source of raw materials on this planet, one environment, and an increasing population (despite nature’s best efforts…) wanting more and more.
Something needs to be done.
It’s all about tax revenues so why should those earning less than the income tax threshold pay the same as someone on an MP’s salary in the form of travel tax.
Where do you want to stop with the socialist solutions.Shared housing next to the point where you are forced to share your house.Or your neighbours can use your garden when you aren’t using it.Or share it because yours is larger than theirs.
As I said play Socialist games win Socialist prizes.
I thought that this wind and nuclear powered utopia was supposed to fix the problem of so called ‘finite resources’.
So which is it CO2.
Or wealth redistribution.
No one voted in a Conservative government to impose Communism on us.
Road fuel duty is presently 57p per litre + 20% VAT on the total = 85p per litre.10kms per litre = 8.5p per km.
Whatever they’ve got planned it’s going to be a lot more than 2p per km and a lot more than 8.5p per km.
As for trucks they’ll obviously be doing less miles with more freight going by road use tax free train.So who pays for all that lost revenue.Obviously not Boris’ high earning cronies.
Like road fuel tax it’s all about protecting the incomes of the highest earners and Champagne Socialists like Ed Davey from paying their fair share of income tax.
Then the far left useful idiots vote for it.
Now they are saying that they intend to end the premise of holding a driving licence and the freedom to drive as and when and where we wish by labelling over 60’s as ‘elderly drivers’ who should have those freedoms curtailed as a ‘cost to society’.
That means the end of any premise on being able to drive a car, let alone a truck driving career, long before retirement age and before the age when airline pilots are expected to still be able to fly.
Carryfast:
Now they are saying that they intend to end the premise of holding a driving licence and the freedom to drive as and when and where we wish by labelling over 60’s as ‘elderly drivers’ who should have those freedoms curtailed as a ‘cost to society’.
That means the end of any premise on being able to drive a car, let alone a truck driving career, long before retirement age and before the age when airline pilots are expected to still be able to fly.
What?
Who is saying what?
Driving licence age changes??
.
Carryfast:
Now they are saying that they intend to end the premise of holding a driving licence and the freedom to drive as and when and where we wish by labelling over 60’s as ‘elderly drivers’ who should have those freedoms curtailed as a ‘cost to society’.
That means the end of any premise on being able to drive a car, let alone a truck driving career, long before retirement age and before the age when airline pilots are expected to still be able to fly.
Just been reading about that, WTF! I know quite a few mates over 60 that are still driving HGV’s, does this mean the UK will have an more shortage of HGV drivers? pulse.express.co.uk/life-style/ … -limits-uk
industry busily doing this valuable trad, there could be a good living to be made reviving duff battery packs in the future.
