One for the diehard remoaners/The final word

the nodding donkey:

Franglais:

robroy:
Look mate, we’re never going to agree on this, I think the EU is a self serving gravy train , a corrupt organisation that granted we got thousands of pounds out of, but after putting millions in.

You think it’s the be all and end all, and that the UK is incapable of surviving without, so we both come at it from different biased directions.

Noticable and radical changes ain’t going to happen overnight, so we will see what will happen and how it pans out, in maybe a couple of years or so?

So in the meantime I’ll keep gloating and you keep whinging …

Just for the record btw, I’ve got Dutch in laws and friends, they tell me the general mood in NL is ‘wait and see how Brexit goes’ , but many are as sick and tired of it as we are/were…(well the majority of the UK anyway, if not you. )

I too doubt we will agree on this, so it`s nice to agree on that!

“The Gravy Train” bit: are politicians well paid? Are they paid excessively?
Maybe. But I dont see the EU as being much different to other institutions. Are MEPs worse than Westminster MPs? I dont see Brussels as worse than London.

I dont think the EU is perfect at all. But I do think its likely better for us to be in it, rather than seek some vague, unknown future outside. The current talk from the cabinet, none agreeing about much, shows just how they lack any coherent plan at all.
There could still be a “no deal” on Dec31st, and we could yet crash out with big overnight changes. It is all far from “over”.

Yes, youve said you have Dutch relations. Not surprising if you and your wider family and friends have some common world views, is it? Guess what? Most of my family and friends share my scepticism about Brexit! Because my circle doesnt have 52% in favour of Brexit doesnt mean I think the polls got it wrong. If your circle dont much like the EU, that is not a good clue to the country as a whole.

I too, have Dutch relations (something to do with my Dutch passport I think… :sunglasses: ). You may be surprised, that they are not eagerly awaiting the clarion call to man the barricades and exit the EU.

They are thoroughly fed up with the way the EU is run, and most Dutch would love to get back to the Gulden. But they are also pragmatic. They have a flourishing cut flower trade, and vegetables grown year round under glass. All that, relies on trade, mainly with their European neighbours. And if you think the UK has immigrant problems, think again. And as for the old "the UK is full to bursting, we’re overcrowded " try fitting 17MILLION plus people in a space slightly larger than Wales, and try to run an agricultural industry amongst it…
The difference between the Brits and the Dutch (and I dare say the French, the Belgians, the Danes and yes, even the Germans) is that the later realise the most important benefits of the EU. 70 years of peace and prosperity. And those are worth a modicum of less than ideal “central government”.

The biggest con from the British Governments of the last 40 years is perpetuating the lie that they could do nothing to stop the EU I interfering with British home matters. Nothing g is further from the truth.

As mentioned earlier, the first, and possibly last, test for Boris is the fishing rights. Having bought the votes of the Cornish and Scottish fishing g communities, with false promises of “taking back our fishing waters”, he’ll have to explain to them that their livelihoods are to be traded away to keep the banking and services industries secured in London…

You all better strap in, its going g to be a rough ride…

The UK fishing is a strange case. Pretty small but very emotive. We export lots of the UK catch to the EU, and import loads of different varieties to eat.
Would it be a good move to increase a small industries production, if that meant it’s main market had extra costs put on it, and shrank? I.E. if we got more fishing grounds but the EU stopped buying because of tariffs, or impossibly difficult transport, so catches were all landed in Holland rather than Scotland!
Over simplistic sound bites from too many involved groups.

Edit.
And I do take your earlier very well.
The EU isn’t a perfect organisation, but it seems clear to me, we’re probably better in than out.