Starting up pros cons and rates

[KWN86]

[size=85]Hi all new to the group thanks for the add.
Ok let's start I've been driving for 10 years on and off self billing and paye (not for me).
After sorting out my personal matters it's time for the decision I've been avoiding around 4 years now I want to start driving for myself.
Based in South West might add.

I am in the process of sorting out all the necessary things for the o licence application.
Have operating center, TM, waiting for service agreement , have funds in the bank enough for 3 units.
My question is, as I've heard from couple of people that, now a days it's not worth it and they wouldn't go into this line of business again (people with 5 + trucks).
I've been running the numbers and from what it looks like with running costs etc the minimum affordable rate seems 1.7 a mile what are your guys opinions on this.
As I'm not aware of how it's done can someone explain are the rates calculated for round trips or one way or is this matter of agreement with clients, and matter of back loads if you have work one way.
I was planning on running a truck and trailer curtain buying a 12 plate premium (they are cheap and Volvo gear) and a courtainsider for starters with possible options on traction only work.


Please let me know what you think and what I can expect in real life.

[dieseldog999]

with all due respect then if you really have no clue whatsoever then 3 years max from now itl be sequistration,bankruptcy or just cease trading.
banks tend to lend funding on a traffic light basis for profitability and success with road haulage being the biggest red light option there is.
no doubt theres the exception to the rule if your switched on and can happily run bent to make some decent dosh but for the most its a life of being a busy poor man unless possibly you go in for some specialised niche market where you are,or get an inflation linked contract for a few years....otherwise???

[KWN86]

Thanks for the reply but it was not really informative so if anyone have any better advice or something else to say would appreciate
I'm asking questions because people that are in the industry tend to make a big secret out of it I know what's the industry about and know it's hard work but there's a lot of owners that moan but stick to it.

[Harry Monk]

It's all about having good contacts and getting your own work, I ran my own truck for five years and was planning to pick up exhibition and conference work, something I have done a lot of in the past but just as I was setting up this sector went the same way as all other Continental transport (i.e. to the eastern Europeans) and so the massive majority of my work was subbing for Gregory's.

I made a reasonable living at it but not enough to make it worthwhile replacing the truck when it needed replacing, it's a lot easier to fling the keys over the counter on a Friday afternoon and not have to go home to do the invoicing and accounts and deal with mountains of mail from the VATman, HMRC, TC etc.

[KWN86]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

[Mattwoodtransport]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

You need to be doubling your rates mate. Head for 3k a week turnover. 500/600 a day, based on runs 120 miles away and backload.

[coiler]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

You need to be doubling your rates mate. Head for 3k a week turnover. 500/600 a day, based on runs 120 miles away and backload.

Sounds like good advice to me, aim for £3k per week depending on your mileage/fuel use. You’ll struggle big time on £1.40 per mile


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pedrosa666]

Following.

[KWN86]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

You need to be doubling your rates mate. Head for 3k a week turnover. 500/600 a day, based on runs 120 miles away and backload.

Sounds like good advice to me, aim for £3k per week depending on your mileage/fuel use. You’ll struggle big time on £1.40 per mile


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I honestly would not make it on 1.4 a mile was running numbers and running cost wagest insurance all that won't be covered by this rate unless I run on red diesel hahaha

[gingerfold]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

You need to be doubling your rates mate. Head for 3k a week turnover. 500/600 a day, based on runs 120 miles away and backload.

Sounds like good advice to me, aim for £3k per week depending on your mileage/fuel use. You’ll struggle big time on £1.40 per mile

Any traction only subbing work is paid at anything between £1.35 to £1.50 per mile. You will have little, or any say in what the rates are. If you are able to find your own direct work then you need to know how to properly cost out a quotation. Rate per mile is only a guide, it's how you arrive at your rate per mile that is key. It's not enough quoting say £500 for a 200 miles job if it takes 4 hours to load and 3 hours to tip. Where is your back load coming from? How far will you have to run empty to get it? Your back load rate will be 50 to 60% of your outbound load if you're lucky.

Having written that no matter how carefully you do your costings it isn't an exact science. There are so many unforeseen variables that come into it, so you have to build in some slack to take account of those. For example, I had to have new landing legs fitted to a trailer yesterday, the trailer is less than three years old so it shouldn't need new legs with general wear and tear and age. But someone had dropped it (loaded) heavily, hence the damage.

If you do go ahead it will be madness to start with three trucks, and all the hassle that entails if you are a new start up business. Start with one and see how it goes. Whatever cash reserve you think you will need to get going and cover your first six months, then double it. Also remember that the first three months of any New Year are dire from a work point of view, 2020 could be even more dire than usual depending on the result of the General Election and Brexit, if it happens. Finally, without wishing to dissuade you, this year so far four owner-drivers I have known for a long time, and have been ODs for a long time, have gone back to being employed drivers. Same sentiments as Harry Monk wrote earlier, no money in it, expensive repairs on modern technologically complex trucks, cannot afford replacements, etc. not worth the hassle and worry.

[Franglais]

My post might seem stupid but as I enquired about sub work for maritime they have sent me this subbie pack and they're offering whopping 1.40 a mile I'm running the numbers read number of posts and hardly ever anyone is saying that running a truck on those kind of rates is possible so I'm just trying to work out what is the real deal I know it's not like I will be a millionaire in a month or even a year but I can't be this hard to make some money since there are lots of transport companies and more opening every day. I was also thinking of subbing for Gregory's what's that like.

Why are "more opening every day" (transport companies)?
Because there is a space left by all of those closing down.
Some are companies going bust and walkong away from their debts, to restart and repeat.
Some are genuine attempts falling. Lots of start-ups? Ask why.

[KWN86]

I will apply for the o licence by end of the month before new rates will go into life so this will give me another three months before I put the truck on the road hopefully all the Brexit uncertainty will clear by than if not will reconsider going into general haulage maybe car recovery transport than.
When it comes to tracking only 1.40 a mile @1600 miles a week I'm falling short by 200£ every time I run the numbers maybe someone can help me with my calculations operating center rent TM insurance payment monthly assumed cost of 1450£ plus fuel and driver's wages how can you afford that can someone explain.
Before I put the truck on the road while waiting for o licence will schedule couple of meeting and see where I stand work wise what am I being offered and make final moves will run one truck and trailer for start it been my goal for as long as I remember so won't be put down easily

[Franglais]

I will apply for the o licence by end of the month before new rates will go into life so this will give me another three months before I put the truck on the road hopefully all the Brexit uncertainty will clear by than if not will reconsider going into general haulage maybe car recovery transport than.
When it comes to tracking only 1.40 a mile @1600 miles a week I'm falling short by 200£ every time I run the numbers maybe someone can help me with my calculations operating center rent TM insurance payment monthly assumed cost of 1450£ plus fuel and driver's wages how can you afford that can someone explain.
Before I put the truck on the road while waiting for o licence will schedule couple of meeting and see where I stand work wise what am I being offered and make final moves will run one truck and trailer for start it been my goal for as long as I remember so won't be put down easily

So, you run the numbers and can't see how it can pay?
You want someone to show you how to fiddle the figures to make it look like a good deal?
Being optimistic, having a positive attitude is great..but....

[KWN86]

I will apply for the o licence by end of the month before new rates will go into life so this will give me another three months before I put the truck on the road hopefully all the Brexit uncertainty will clear by than if not will reconsider going into general haulage maybe car recovery transport than.
When it comes to tracking only 1.40 a mile @1600 miles a week I'm falling short by 200£ every time I run the numbers maybe someone can help me with my calculations operating center rent TM insurance payment monthly assumed cost of 1450£ plus fuel and driver's wages how can you afford that can someone explain.
Before I put the truck on the road while waiting for o licence will schedule couple of meeting and see where I stand work wise what am I being offered and make final moves will run one truck and trailer for start it been my goal for as long as I remember so won't be put down easily

So, you run the numbers and can't see how it can pay?
You want someone to show you how to fiddle the figures to make it look like a good deal?
Being optimistic, having a positive attitude is great..but....

I am obviously missing something what's the key cuz people run on those rates and make it out ok is it the fuel price or maybe insurance cost that's lower just asking people that are in the business that's all
If it wasn't possible no one would run the truck for 1.30 a mile just want to prepare myself for the least profitable option if necessary.

[the maoster]

What you're missing is that these others you quote are in fact NOT doing ok, you've done the calculations and can't see how they're making money, the answer is that they aren't, they're dying a death by a thousand cuts but are plodding on because even if they walk away they're saddled with thousands of pounds of debt, the ultimate catch 22; can't afford to trade, can't afford not to.

If you've got money to burn buy three houses and rent them out. I 100% guarantee you'll see a better return for your money. If you are insisting on spending money in transport then you need to specialise and find a niche market. Have a look around at the work nobody else wants to do, ask yourself why and then think of a way to make it profitable for you to do it.

[dieseldog999]

as above............thats the reality of it.
your going to be a busy poor man.
your going to see your savings and capital outlay go down the pan.
by the time that it dawns on you,then you will most likely be buried in finances thinking,if i just try 1 more year then surely itl get better,,,,,,,,,,,,,then it wont,,,then back to my previous post to you..........guaranteed end of story.
otherwise,your another lamb to the slaughter.
maritime and all the others offering traction work will watch your earnings on a monthly basis and feed you enough just to scrape by thereafter you cant leave as you cant afford to then you will eventually be referring back to my previous post.again.

[coiler]

I will apply for the o licence by end of the month before new rates will go into life so this will give me another three months before I put the truck on the road hopefully all the Brexit uncertainty will clear by than if not will reconsider going into general haulage maybe car recovery transport than.
When it comes to tracking only 1.40 a mile @1600 miles a week I'm falling short by 200£ every time I run the numbers maybe someone can help me with my calculations operating center rent TM insurance payment monthly assumed cost of 1450£ plus fuel and driver's wages how can you afford that can someone explain.
Before I put the truck on the road while waiting for o licence will schedule couple of meeting and see where I stand work wise what am I being offered and make final moves will run one truck and trailer for start it been my goal for as long as I remember so won't be put down easily

1600 miles @ £1.40 per mile = £2240

Fuel cost will be around the £0.56ppm mark, so at 1600 miles the fuel cost is approx £900.

So you've got £1340 left to pay for your truck, trailer, insurance, op centre rent, maintenance. And pay yourself a wage.

So if you called it £890 for all the above costs for the week, this leaves £450 gross for wages and profit. This would probably give you a take home wage of about £300 for the week, if you take it all as wages, with no profit set aside.

Which is why I suggested aiming for £3000 per week turnover, you wont do it every week, but you need to aim for it.

[KWN86]

as above............thats the reality of it.
your going to be a busy poor man.
your going to see your savings and capital outlay go down the pan.
by the time that it dawns on you,then you will most likely be buried in finances thinking,if i just try 1 more year then surely itl get better,,,,,,,,,,,,,then it wont,,,then back to my previous post to you..........guaranteed end of story.
otherwise,your another lamb to the slaughter.
maritime and all the others offering traction work will watch your earnings on a monthly basis and feed you enough just to scrape by thereafter you cant leave as you cant afford to then you will eventually be referring back to my previous post.again.

It's not like transport business is dead and you can't make money it's just being smart and getting the right sort of work and not drive yourself into debt.
I'm good with numbers so will definitely work out if work is worth while.
Won't sell myself cheap and work for peanuts I want to start this to make some money not just a living cuz I can do that working for someone else.

[gingerfold]

Please let me know what you think and what I can expect in real life

You asked in your original post. Several posters have replied and apparently you don't like what they say. Being good with numbers is one thing, being good at road transport is something else entirely. To put it at it's most basic the job is on the bones of its arse, and I go back to 1968 when I first started work, so I've experienced good times and bad. Nowadays it is bad. No doubt you will be aware of the current Stobart saga; I can name another dozen major companies that are in a similar predicament. At the other end of the scale smaller companies are struggling like never before. All of these are factoring their invoices the minute they get PoDs back from drivers, just to keep cash flow coming in daily to meet weekly wages and fuel bills.

There was a new start up on TN about 12 months ago. He was "good at figures" and had spread sheets for anything and everything. I never bothered to post any replies on his thread because from what I read I knew that he hadn't a prayer of surviving. He didn't last 12 months before failing.

[dieseldog999]

as above............thats the reality of it.
your going to be a busy poor man.
your going to see your savings and capital outlay go down the pan.
by the time that it dawns on you,then you will most likely be buried in finances thinking,if i just try 1 more year then surely itl get better,,,,,,,,,,,,,then it wont,,,then back to my previous post to you..........guaranteed end of story.
otherwise,your another lamb to the slaughter.
maritime and all the others offering traction work will watch your earnings on a monthly basis and feed you enough just to scrape by thereafter you cant leave as you cant afford to then you will eventually be referring back to my previous post.again.

It's not like transport business is dead and you can't make money it's just being smart and getting the right sort of work and not drive yourself into debt.
I'm good with numbers so will definitely work out if work is worth while.
Won't sell myself cheap and work for peanuts I want to start this to make some money not just a living cuz I can do that working for someone else.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you asked for advice and your getting similar from other posters.
lose the rose tint specs and take a reality pill.
go and do it then remember these posts when your ass is in tatters.
all i see here is ignorance is bliss,and none so blind.
please do remind us how well your doing after a year or so then see if the words "we told you so" ring true.
goodluck if you earn fortunes but its highly likely you will earn half of what your normal rdc work plobber comes home with not taking into consideration when the gearbox kakks itself on a fri round the M25 then all he has to do is call it in then lie back and eat his gingsters pie waiting on the recovery..dream on son,as thats all it is unless you run bent,have a previous life in haulage,or find a niche specialised market direct for someone.

[KWN86]

Please let me know what you think and what I can expect in real life

He didn't last 12 months before failing.

I understand that it's bad out there, if we look at it this way there isn't a lot money in anything now building, trucking, groundwork, all businesses are struggling.
I've read bout stoby and it doesn't surprise me they are going down from what I see the next could be wincanton, xpo, maritime etc big companies need big revenue they drove the rates way down by undercutting similar companies working their trucks for pennies cuz they had thousands of them.

I'm one man band I work for myself pay myself and clean my truck the way I look at it so maybe just maybe I can afford to have a truck maintain it make same Maney just like as I am employed and be happy with what I do or is this too much to ask for.
For now I don't have driver's fleet of trucks offices and yards to pay for.
Back in the day everything was more profitable simple reason less competition now even employed u have to fight for what's right for you were just numbers anywhere we are.
To summarise this whole essey, do all of you gents kind enought to take part in this conversation think it's not worth while and wouldn't do it or think of stopping trading.
Is this the advice you would give don't bother cause it's hard or impossible to make some money and make a living??

[chaversdad]

I do traction only @ £1.50 a mile, spend 50% of the week running light, no TM to pay, no rent for yard to pay, no trailer hire charges ,i also get paid weekly and the company i sub for rang me to come and work for them, truck gets maintained by a main dealer, yes i make a decent living but i.ve also put up with a lot of [zb] in the 20yrs as an owner driver

[Mattwoodtransport]

I’ll also be putting in for my ops licence. You will find a lot won’t talk to you until you do kwn. Do it chief, out of interest, I notice you said 3 units, and your running the numbers, how are you financing it? Buying a £6k unit?new rental? Insurance lump sum or monthly etc etc

[KWN86]

I’ll also be putting in for my ops licence. You will find a lot won’t talk to you until you do kwn. Do it chief, out of interest, I notice you said 3 units, and your running the numbers, how are you financing it? Buying a £6k unit?new rental? Insurance lump sum or monthly etc etc

Will be applying for 3 but I will run one at first mate don't want to go all crazy when starting if all goes well maybe rest of them will follow it's better to plan ahead instead of making changes later besides come new year and the amount of money you need for each unit goes up so better do it right away and yes the first unit and trailer will be fairly cheap looking don't want a massive bill to cover while starting no hire purchase or leasing too expensive

[albion]

Please let me know what you think and what I can expect in real life

You asked in your original post. Several posters have replied and apparently you don't like what they say. Being good with numbers is one thing, being good at road transport is something else entirely. To put it at it's most basic the job is on the bones of its arse, and I go back to 1968 when I first started work, so I've experienced good times and bad. Nowadays it is bad. No doubt you will be aware of the current Stobart saga; I can name another dozen major companies that are in a similar predicament. At the other end of the scale smaller companies are struggling like never before. All of these are factoring their invoices the minute they get PoDs back from drivers, just to keep cash flow coming in daily to meet weekly wages and fuel bills.

There was a new start up on TN about 12 months ago. He was "good at figures" and had spread sheets for anything and everything. I never bothered to post any replies on his thread because from what I read I knew that he hadn't a prayer of surviving. He didn't last 12 months before failing.

I'm terrible at numbers, my entire financial strategy was wage plus fuel should be 50% of costs. Unlike the chap gingerfold mentioned with his spreadsheets, whose posts I could only just follow. I was quite good at operations though and went from a van to a mixed fleet of 20 vehicles, various trailers and 25 staff. I put it down to hard work, luck and moving into specialist work.

At one time haulage was the second most likely to fail business sector and I wouldn't he surprised to find nothing has changed. People come into the business, find the money isnt stacking up and in desperation run at sub par rates and the circle continues. You need to find the rate at which you can make a decent living and then find someone to pay it. I can tell you what my rate was before I retired but without context, the sector I was in, the set up of the business, it doesnt tell you a thing.

I cant say dont do it because I did, and it was a good company, but the truth is you are highly unlikely to do anything more than make an average wage with a lot more hassle.

[Scannyfanny]

I’ll also be putting in for my ops licence. You will find a lot won’t talk to you until you do kwn. Do it chief, out of interest, I notice you said 3 units, and your running the numbers, how are you financing it? Buying a £6k unit?new rental? Insurance lump sum or monthly etc etc

Will be applying for 3 but I will run one at first mate don't want to go all crazy when starting if all goes well maybe rest of them will follow it's better to plan ahead instead of making changes later besides come new year and the amount of money you need for each unit goes up so better do it right away and yes the first unit and trailer will be fairly cheap looking don't want a massive bill to cover while starting no hire purchase or leasing too expensive

Some harsh but sadly true insights into your planned haulage venture....

Work - unfortunately no one with work available will speak to you seriously without your new operator's licence in your hand.
Truck - unfortunately you will have no ability to get any finance or leasing on a truck or trailer as a startup with zero history so needs to be cash.
Running - unfortunately you will struggle to get a fuel card will need a cash buffer to fuel your wagon for a bit

Question - how much ready cash do you have available to invest in starting your business?

Reason for asking - if you don't have at least £25k you won't be running anything apart from a bath unfortunately.

Best of luck Drive...and I mean that...

Scannyfanny

[KWN86]

I’ll also be putting in for my ops licence. You will find a lot won’t talk to you until you do kwn. Do it chief, out of interest, I notice you said 3 units, and your running the numbers, how are you financing it? Buying a £6k unit?new rental? Insurance lump sum or monthly etc etc

Will be applying for 3 but I will run one at first mate don't want to go all crazy when starting if all goes well maybe rest of them will follow it's better to plan ahead instead of making changes later besides come new year and the amount of money you need for each unit goes up so better do it right away and yes the first unit and trailer will be fairly cheap looking don't want a massive bill to cover while starting no hire purchase or leasing too expensive

Some harsh but sadly true insights into your planned haulage venture....

Work - unfortunately no one with work available will speak to you seriously without your new operator's licence in your hand.
Truck - unfortunately you will have no ability to get any finance or leasing on a truck or trailer as a startup with zero history so needs to be cash.
Running - unfortunately you will struggle to get a fuel card will need a cash buffer to fuel your wagon for a bit

Question - how much ready cash do you have available to invest in starting your business?

Reason for asking - if you don't have at least £25k you won't be running anything apart from a bath unfortunately.

Best of luck Drive...and I mean that...

Scannyfanny

Thanks for the insider

I am aware of all the things you have mentioned if I didn't have cash in hand would not even dream of starting this venture will be hard at first just have to make smart choices o licence application filed so now all I have to do is start making phone calls and see who will talk to me.

[Andrey1]

A lot say don't do it, not worth it etc. but did they even try or had a company?(few maybe) Reasons would be they don't want any more competitor starting, some got rental s650 and run £1.40 says no money in it, some are just owner driver not have the business mind. If you have goals, no one will stop you to get it done. Go for it. I'm also awaiting my o licence, under consideration.
Some say no one will talk to you without licence, it's a big myth. I have many offers already (not just maritime or bwd). £1.55 traction, over £2 for ad-hoc work..Fuel card, I already received 2 cards 7 days payment term. Finance for truck, many rejected, but found 2 company to offer finance and secured one with holding deposit now until o licence arrive.
At my last company we have other subbies parked and one of them started in 2016 now have around 15unit only traction work.
Another thing is the business has potential to increase, what increase would drivers get being employed?? Whole life drive for someone make their dream come true, but think too risky to start something on their own..pffff.
Also, for the people who says "I was lucky" the luck didnt find you, you work so hard and found your own luck...

[dieseldog999]

finally theres the reply you wanted to see,so thats that..go for it and the world is your lobster my son.

[iguana]

I'm assuming the offered £1.40/mile is the laden miles?

Can't see how that could work profit wise at all personally.