Rjan:
Winseer:
Whilst Corbyn has clearly made considerable effort to rally the votes of the incoming voting generation of already half-brainwashed University populations, he’s yet to appeal to those of us who want to actually see these “Eurosceptic” credentials.Perhaps if Corbyn became an advocate of an even harder version of Labour Leave than the Right-wing version, he might find himself poaching the very votes of the Right he’ll need one day, if he’s ever to get past the 40% poll that still didn’t win it for him (for very similar reasons to Le Pen polling around the same, and not winning in France last year…)
There’s the Brexit Ball. It’s about ten feet in front of an empty goal, as the goalie hasn’t even turned up today.
…All anyone has to do is kick it in the net, and not miss from ten feet out. How ‘hard’ is that?
But the vision of Brexit that you and Carryfast seem to describe, you’re never going to see. You’re never going to have Corbyn posing for a photo-op where he bears his arse at the edge of the white cliffs of Dover and puts two fingers up to the continent.
Nor can he outdo the false rhetoric of the Tory right. Boris said the EU could go and whistle for it’s contributions, then promptly agreed to pay them at the outset of negotiations. Then he made a big deal about blue passports, heralding it as a victory, until the EU pointed out that we could have had them all along and that one of the minor members of the EU (I forget which) does already have blue passports - and then the Tories gave the production contract to a French firm. These sorts of processes wouldn’t be allowed to happen on the left, because the effects would be foreseen and are considered embarrassing and dishonest.
Most people on the socialist left, we may be wrong or we may be right, but we generally have some respect for the intellect and capability of the working class (even if, as the relative success of the Tories show, it is not always immediately justified) and try to engage honestly with people.
Are you saying that there’s no such thing as a “Left” Brexit, or a “Right” brexit, since in fact the only politicians able to actually deliver Brexit - are the very ones who are 100% against it, and won’t be moved otherwise… The “Hard Centers”. Enter: The Liberal Extremist. Determined to ignore Democratic votes, and yet hanging onto “Democrat” as part of their party name.
Blue passports, and all that other guff - are just white noise. So is “Immigration”. Even if we voted solidly for Brexit, it’s going to take many years to change the culture whereby we actually kick out the criminal immigrants and keep the hard working taxpaying ones - simply because no politician in history has yet to divide up the two!
Brexit is all about the money. If we’d already stopped paying the EU, then that would have been a 100% Hard Brexit for me. Done. Satisfied.
If the EU want to close down borders, boycott trade, kick Ex Pats off the continent, etc etc. - then that would be entirely up to them to actually suggest, let alone achieve.
If they did nothing at all - then guess what? - During the interim period following our payments to Brussels ceasing - we’re effectively remaining for free - which is the only form of “remaining by the back door” that Brexiteers were EVER going to accept. Now remainers are left hoping that Brexiteers all snuff it before they do, which is no way for already divided and broken Britain to carry on - is it? 