Multi man ADR

I’m was wondering what the procedure is when doing multi maning carrying dangerous goods? Is it acceptable for only 1 driver to have ADR and would this driver be the only one allowed to drive while dangerous goods are on board??

other man requires to be adr qualified and hold a valid card. also both guys/girls must have minimum required adr saftey equipment.

ytrehodluap:
I’m was wondering what the procedure is when doing multi maning carrying dangerous goods? Is it acceptable for only 1 driver to have ADR and would this driver be the only one allowed to drive while dangerous goods are on board??

Hi,

The answer to your question depends on whether the load to be carried is fully subject to ADR. For instance, it ISN’T sufficient to simply say that there are some dangerous goods on board the vehicle.

Sorry mate, but there isn’t enough info in your question for anybody to give you a good answer.

What is to be carried? (UN number, PSN, Class and PG if possible)
How is it packaged?
How much of it will be carried?

I can give you a spot-on answer once I know where the goalposts are.

smiggs:
other man requires to be adr qualified and hold a valid card.

Hi smiggs,

This would only be true if the load were fully subject to ADR… AND both were needed for driving the vehicle.

ADR is very clear that it’s the driver who must hold the certificate (now a card.)

However, you’d be perfectly correct if you said that one ADR card will NOT cover two drivers to drive a fully regulated load.

smiggs:
also both guys/girls must have minimum required adr saftey equipment.

Correct, but ONLY if the load is fully subject to ADR.

ADR contains a number of different exemptions, which depend on various things like…

Size/type of packaging
Amount carried
Whether any Special Provision (SP) applies
There are some others too!!

:bulb: ADR is only tricky when the full facts aren’t known, as in the OP’s question.

Seems there are companies willing to use drivers who don’t know all these regulations to cut costs perhaps?? On this occasion we went up north delivering around Derbyshire from Heathrow I wasn’t happy to drive the first bit as there were four barrels of something with a dangerous goods logo on it (that really is all I know at the moment) so other driver drove up there got rid of that, then I drove next couple of hours etc… I wonder if this is common practise?

ytrehodluap:
Seems there are companies willing to use drivers who don’t know all these regulations to cut costs perhaps?? On this occasion we went up north delivering around Derbyshire from Heathrow I wasn’t happy to drive the first bit as there were four barrels of something with a dangerous goods logo on it (that really is all I know at the moment) so other driver drove up there got rid of that, then I drove next couple of hours etc… I wonder if this is common practise?

Hi,

It’s perfectly possible that there was nothing to worry about, because it might well not have been a fully regulated load.

4 X 200L (a guess on the size of the ‘barrels’ on my part) = 800L. Some substances have an allowance of 1,000L, or might not even be regulated at all.

It’s equally possible that it was a fully regulated load.

You saw “a dangerous goods logo” but there are several types of those.

Some substances are only ‘hazardous’ which means that anybody can drive whilst carrying as much as they like.

Other substances are ‘dangerous’ and that’s where ADR comes in, but with all the variations I’ve already mentioned.

I can give you a good answer, but only if you can tell me where the goalposts are! :smiley:

As an aside, isn’t it true that only Haz Trained drivers are obliged to know the regs about quantities etc relating to Haz goods? So could through ignorance be told that their load is not covered by Haz Regs when it actually is?
A good case for a DCPC module there?
There would need to be slack/corrupt management too, of course, for the load to go.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

It does seem odd that the 2nd driver would need to have ADR if by the time it’s his (or her) time to drive there would not be any dangerous goods on board. I thought a class 2 driver would be able to double man with a class 1 driver, class 1 drives waggon and drag Heathrow to Scunthorpe (say) class 2 drives waggon (only) to Hull, Scarborough, York and Leeds then back to pick up trailer when other driver takes over for the journey back. Is there any reason that can’t be done? I understand if the only driver with ADR where to be incapacitated then the other driver may not be able to deal with a spillage for instance but surely this would be the case if it were single manned?

Franglais:
As an aside, isn’t it true that only Haz Trained drivers are obliged to know the regs about quantities etc relating to Haz goods?

I’ve spotted the banana skin. :smiley:

It’s a banana skin because the rules for national DG transport vary from country to country.
Here in the UK, we have CDG 2009 (as amended) and there’s no expectation of an employed driver knowing about quantities etc.

I’m not sure about France though. :wink:

When a job is international ( = done under ADR with no influence from any national DG rules along the way) an employed driver is also not required to know about quantities etc.

Franglais:
So could through ignorance be told that their load is not covered by Haz Regs when it actually is?

Yes, that’s quite correct, but in the UK, all that happens is that some kind of prohibition will be issued because an employed driver is not expected to know the detail of the responsibilities of the others in the transport chain.

Franglais:
A good case for a DCPC module there?

If an employed driver sat through day #1 of a standard ADR course as DCPC, then that would fulfil the lgal requirement for ‘awareness’ training which IS a requirement for drivers who carry dangerous goods ‘out-of-scope’ or as LQs etc.
They also get their 7hrs DCPC certificate, which is recognised as ‘documented’ as per ADR requirement, so that one is win-win and two birds with one stone.

Franglais:
There would need to be slack/corrupt management too, of course, for the load to go.

The beauty of this is that if the sender has lied to the carrier, the sender will usually cop what’s coming.
TBF though, ADR requires the sender to send load details to the carrier “in a traceable form” so if that’s missing or the carrier is simply careless and (for instance) didn’t ask for an emailed order for transport, then there’s possibly an argument to be had, but it won’t involve the driver. :smiley:

ytrehodluap:
It does seem odd that the 2nd driver would need to have ADR if by the time it’s his (or her) time to drive there would not be any dangerous goods on board. I thought a class 2 driver would be able to double man with a class 1 driver, class 1 drives waggon and drag Heathrow to Scunthorpe (say) class 2 drives waggon (only) to Hull, Scarborough, York and Leeds then back to pick up trailer when other driver takes over for the journey back. Is there any reason that can’t be done? I understand if the only driver with ADR where to be incapacitated then the other driver may not be able to deal with a spillage for instance but surely this would be the case if it were single manned?

Hi,

There’s nothing odd about it at all mate.
If a load is fully subject to ADR, the driver must hold a certificate.

In the part I’ve made blue, you’re possibly confusing the rules about supervising a learner driver, or what a leaner driver can/can’t drive and thinking that the same principle applies in ADR. This is NOT true when it comes to ADR.

Here is chapter and verse…

ADR 2017 8.2.1.1

Drivers of vehicles carrying dangerous goods shall hold a certificate issued by the competent authority stating that they have participated in a training course and passed an examination on the particular requirements that have to be met during carriage of dangerous goods.

This is legalese for the DRIVER of a vehicle that’s carrying a fully regulated load must have an ADR card.

Another part of ADR (1.1.3.6) says that the above doesn’t apply when carrying up to ■■ litres/Kgs of certain kinds of dangerous goods in packages. (No such exemption for a tanker or tank-container carrying dangerous goods though.)

Another part of ADR (3.4) says that the above also doesn’t apply when the dangerous goods being carried are packaged as Limited Quantities (LQs) and comply with the rules on LQs. (Stuff that is sold in retail shops.)

There are plenty of other examples of exemptions in ADR, but it’s quite possible that you could carry a full load of dangerous goods and not need an ADR Card. However, you WOULD need some form of ‘documented’ ADR awareness training as in my answer to Franglais above.

Sorry mate, but the rest of what you were saying about “incapacitated” etc simply isn’t covered in ADR.

The part that I made blue is OK if we were discussing driving licences though. :smiley: