Driver Hours feedback.

[muckles]

Where I've been working I produced a basic guide to Drivers hours and WTD, for the other drivers as most were occasional drivers and were unclear on the regs.
I'd like to post it here, or even send a Word Doc to anybody who feels they'd be useful to them for reference when they're driving. (when I started I had a copy of the rules from Headlight magazine, and found it very useful for reference. if you remember Headlight magazine then you're getting on a bit )

but before I do that I'd like some of the those who train drivers on Drivers Hours Regs or just understand them really well to check them first, to make sure I've not put in some howlers or maybe think of better ways to word them. I found it quite difficult to keep it simple an cover all the exceptions etc.

Basic Tachograph Rules.

Maximum Driving Hours:

• Driving before requiring a break, 4.5 hours
• Daily driving, 9 hours, extended to 10 hours 2 times a week.
• Weekly, 56 hours
• Fortnightly, 90 hours.

Breaks, Rests, Duty times.

• Minimum of 45 minutes break, before completing no more than 4.5 hours driving, can be split into a 15 minute and then 30 minute rest, but not the other way round.
• Driving period is re-set after completion of a 45 minute break. (which means you can drive up to another 4.5 hours, if it doesn’t exceed your daily driving limit)
• You do not lose the remaining driving time if you complete a 45 minute break before doing 4.5 hours driving; it just re-sets the driving you can do before needing another 45 minute break to 4.5 hours, or whatever you have left of your daily driving limit.
• Daily Rest 11 hours, can be reduced to no less than 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.(The daily rest period must be completed within 24 hours from the start of the shift, any rest that falls outside of the 24 hour period does not count towards the daily rest period)
• Maximum duty time13 hours, can be extended to 15 hours 3 between weekly rest periods. (A duty time of more than 13 hours is also considered to be a reduced Daily Rest)
• Daily Rest can be split into 2 separate periods one must be of at least 9 hours and the other of at least 3 hours. (if done this way it’s not considered to be a reduced Daily Rest period)
• Minimum Weekly Rest 45 hours, can be reduced to a minimum of 24 hours every other week, but the remainder of the hours have to be made up by the end of the 4th week following the reduction.
• Maximum of 144 hours between weekly rest periods, (6 x 24 hours)

Double Manning:

• Drivers must have a 9 hours consecutive rest in a 30 hours period.
• Breaks can be taken when you are the Co-Driver, but Rest Periods cannot be taken in the truck whilst it's moving.
• Therefore the maximum duty time is 21 hours.

Definitions:

• Duty time, Is the time between 2 daily rest periods or a daily rest and a weekly rest.
• Break, is a period of time when a driver is not doing any work, however it can be taken in a moving vehicle
• Rest, is an uninterrupted period where a driver can freely dispose of his time.

Tachograph Modes:

• Drive: Activated automatically when the vehicle moves
• Other Work: Use to record all work activity, this includes Daily checks and Re-fuelling.
• POA, Period of Availability used to record waiting times, when the duration of the wait is known,
• Rest: Use to record Rest or Break Periods.

Analogue Tachographs:

• Fill in all of the centre field of tachograph chart, the only optional information is Total Kms.
• End date and location are required, even if they are the same as the start date and location
• Use your full name, if your name doesn't fit on front of the card then use initials and put your full name on reverse of the card.
• If for any reason the Tachograph doesn't work then write a manual entry on the rear of the card, with an explanation.
• You are also required to do an manual entry if you have been working away from the vehicle
• Don't leave the card in for more than 24 hours.
• Hand in tachographs within 42 days of them being used.

Digital Tachographs:

• Insert Driver Card into slot 1, Co-Driver into slot 2.
• If you leave your card in the head during a Daily or Weekly rest, (as required in Europe for a continuous record) you must enter the start and end Country at the start and end of your Duty Time. (to do this go into menu, > Entry>Driver 1 (driver 2 if co-driver when double manning) >begin country (or end Country) and select the Country, Spain also has regions)
• Download Digital tachograph within 28 days.
• Most Digital Tachographs will Default to Other Work after the truck has been moved, so remember to use mode switch to put in on Rest (break) when required.

You are required to have on UK journeys:

• All tachographs for the that day and previous 28 days you have driven a vehicle the has a tachograph
• The driver’s digital Tachograph card (if you hold one, even if you haven't used it)
• Any Digital Tachograph printouts.
• Manual entries showing start and finish times on tachographs (The DVSA agency will accept a record sheet, diary, time sheet) if you’ve not driven a vehicle with a tacho since the end of your last weekly break.

And also for European Journeys:

• Your driving licence,
• Fill in Vehicle Security form for the return journey. (use of this can reduce the possibility both the driver and company receiving a £2000 per person fine if stowaways are discovered on board a vehicle)
• A Continuous Record of Activities on your Tachographs. (this means you should show rest periods on your card by leaving it in the tacho head, no more than 24 hour for an analogue tacho)

Vehicle Checks

• Remember to do Daily Vehicle Checks.
• Time taken to do checks should be recorded as Other Work on the Tachograph
• Report any defects on a Defect Report Form and hand it in. (The company is required to keep them for 15 months)
• Get Defects repaired before taking vehicle on the road

Running over Hours.

• If due to unforeseen circumstances you run over your hours, write an explanation on the back of your Tachograph or on the back of a digital tachograph printout.
• You can only legally run over your hours to get to a suitable parking place.
• Unforeseen Circumstances are on road events you could not reasonably expect to plan for, such as delays caused by: Accidents, Bad Weather, Mechanical Breakdown, Interruption for Ferry Services

Working Time Directive

• Average of 48 hours work a week
• Maximum of 60 hours work in a week:
• A working week start at 00:00 Monday
• Working time does not include; routine travel between home and their normal place of work. rest, breaks, Evening classes, day-release courses, Voluntary work or time spent as a Retained Fire Fighter, a Special Constable, or member of the Reserve Forces.
• Maximum of 10 hours work in a 24 hour period if doing night work.
• Any time worked between midnight and 4am is considered to be night work.
• Normal reference period 17 weeks,
• Reference period and night working hours can be extended by workforce agreement
• Statutory paid annual leave/sick leave cannot be used to reduce the average working time of a mobile worker. For each week of leave that is taken, 48 hours working time must be added to their working time; for each day’s leave, 8 hours must be added to working time.
• Records must be kept for 2 years
• Those who do few than 11 days driving under EU drivers hours regulations in a 17 week reference period are exempt from the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations. This is increase to less than 16 days if the reference period is extended to 26 weeks.
• Workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
• A minimum of 15 minutes break must be taken before exceeding 6 hours working time
• If the daily working hours are between 6 to 9 hours then breaks totaling at least 30 minutes are required.
• Where working hours are more than 9 hours a day then breaks totaling a minimum of 45 minutes are required.
• Breaks should be at least 15 minutes in duration.
• If breaks are taken to comply with drivers hours regulations then these will also count as breaks for the WTD.

Updated to include suggestions and to correct errors. Put in quotes to separate it from my waffling about Headlight magazine. 04/02/15

Added Tachograph's comment in brackets to Daily rest period Bullet point. 05/02/15

[Evil8Beezle]

Excellent muckles!

Can I suggest the inclusion that when your driving time is reset by a 45 min break, you haven't lost any driving time from that preceding 4.5 hour block, you just have to take another 45 to access it again!

i.e.
Drive 3 hours
Break 45 mins
Drive 4 hours
Break 45 mins
Drive 3 hours (or 2 hours if reduced rest not available) - Correction: One of the two 10 hour drives not available!

It's something I didn't see spelt out when I was learning/still learning...


Another inclusion could possibly be how to do a manual entry on a Siemans Tacho, as they are the most common.
I did it wrong my first time!

[muckles]

Excellent muckles!

It look better in a word doc because it's better formatted )
Would having a basic reference guide like that have helped you when you started driving?

[Evil8Beezle]

Excellent muckles!

It look better in a word doc because it's better formatted )
Would having a basic reference guide like that have helped you when you started driving?

Definitely, as reading the whole regs is daunting and rather dry when you first start out...
Trying to take it all in to start with is just about impossible, as there is so much of it and it's easy to get confused.
I decided that I'd ignore things like double manning and ferry breaks to start with, and just stick with the basics.
Since then I've grown my knowledge bit by bit, expanding on the basics you've put together there!

What you've put together there, is pretty much all anyone needs to know to start and pass the agency tests!

[muckles]

Thanks for the feedback, it what I hoped.
As I said in the OP, when I started I had a basic reference guide from a now defunct magazine called Headlight. I found the simple reference style very helpful, but I've not seen anything like it since.
I'd like people like to look over it, check it's accurate, and offer suggestion on better ways to word some of the explanations, then hopefully between us we can produce a simple, clear and above all accurate explanation of the regs.
Which can be put on a sticky here and as a document which I'd be quite happy to send anybody who wanted it.

[muckles]

Can I suggest the inclusion that when your driving time is reset by a 45 min break, you haven't lost any driving time from that preceding 4.5 hour block, you just have to take another 45 to access it again!

i.e.
Drive 3 hours
Break 45 mins
Drive 4 hours
Break 45 mins
Drive 3 hours (or 2 hours if reduced rest not available)

It's something I didn't see spelt out when I was learning/still learning...

I agree it's something that many people get confused with and end up busting a gut to make sure they do 4.5 hours driving.
But not sure the best way to word it and keep it simple.

We're all still learning.

Another inclusion could possibly be how to do a manual entry on a Siemans Tacho, as they are the most common.
I did it wrong my first time!

Maybe that's another document or maybe a video would be better. Sadly Switchlogic (Luke) isn't doing videos these days. He did do a couple of good training ones and I told more than one person I worked with to watch his one on using the Euro Tunnel Train before their first trip.

[tachograph]

Breaks, Rests, Duty times.

• Daily Rest 11 hours, can be reduced to 9 hours 3 times a week.
Daily rest period can be reduced to no less than 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.
• Maximum duty time13 hours, can be extended to 15 hours 3 times a week. (A duty time of more than 13 hours is also considered to be a reduced Daily Rest)
As above, 3 times between weekly rest periods not per week.
Duty time isn't mentioned in the regulations, the 13 and 15 hour shifts are a direct result of the daily rest periods, ie, unless a split daily rest period is taken any shift of more than 13 hours is a reduced daily rest period because you cannot have a regular 11 hour daily rest period in the 24 hour period.

• Daily Rest can be split into 2 separate periods one must be of at least 8 hours and the other of at least 3 hours. (if done this way it’s not considered to be a reduced Daily Rest period)
Daily rest can be split into 2 seperate parts the first of which must be at-least 3 hours and the second must be at-least 9 hours not 8.

Running over Hours.

• If due to unforeseen circumstances you run over your hours, write an explanation on the back of your Tachograph or on the back of a digital tachograph printout.
You can only legally run over your hours to get to a suitable parking place.

Working Time Directive

• Any time worked between midnight and 4am is considered to be night work.
00:00 to 04:00 for goods vehicle drivers, 01:00 to 05:00 for PCV drivers.

• A minimum 15 break must be taken within the first 6 hours work.
A minimum of 15 minutes must be taken before exceeding 6 hours working time not within 6 hours.

[Evil8Beezle]

I've just spotted that I made a mistake, as a 10 hour drive (twice a week) has nothing to do with a reduced rest.
I knew what i meant, I just said the wrong thing!

[muckles]

Breaks, Rests, Duty times.

• Daily Rest 11 hours, can be reduced to 9 hours 3 times a week.
Daily rest period can be reduced to no less than 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.
yep will change that, as it's a more accurate way of putting it. this does show the problem with the regulations for newbies about fixed weeks and period between weekly rest periods
• Maximum duty time13 hours, can be extended to 15 hours 3 times a week. (A duty time of more than 13 hours is also considered to be a reduced Daily Rest)
As above, 3 times between weekly rest periods not per week.Again more accurate way of wording it.

Duty time isn't mentioned in the regulations, the 13 and 15 hour shifts are a direct result of the daily rest periods, ie, unless a split daily rest period is taken any shift of more than 13 hours is a reduced daily rest period because you cannot have a regular 11 hour daily rest period in the 24 hour period.
I understand that, but a new driver in fact many drivers think in terms of time on duty as well as rest periods, so I included it to help.
• Daily Rest can be split into 2 separate periods one must be of at least 8 hours and the other of at least 3 hours. (if done this way it’s not considered to be a reduced Daily Rest period)
Daily rest can be split into 2 seperate parts the first of which must be at-least 3 hours and the second must be at-least 9 hours not 8.
All I can say is but it was the reason I wanted other to look over it as it doesn't matter how many time you read it you an miss an obvious mistake.
Running over Hours.

• If due to unforeseen circumstances you run over your hours, write an explanation on the back of your Tachograph or on the back of a digital tachograph printout.
You can only legally run over your hours to get to a suitable parking place.
Good point will be added.
Working Time Directive

• Any time worked between midnight and 4am is considered to be night work.
00:00 to 04:00 for goods vehicle drivers, 01:00 to 05:00 for PCV drivers.
wasn't really doing it for PCV, might leave that for Busnet
• A minimum 15 break must be taken within the first 6 hours work.
A minimum of 15 minutes must be taken before exceeding 6 hours working time not within 6 hours.
Yep it made sense to me, but this is why I wanted others to read it and check it.

Thanks I hoped you'd check it, as you obviusly know your stuff and also have a way of keeping it simple. I will update the word doc.
Now how would you word Evil8Beezle suggestion about driving hours being re-set after a break, but not losing the remaining hours from your total driving time?

[wee gordy]

Muckles. W.t.d is sun to sat or I am wrong?

[muckles]

Muckles. W.t.d is sun to sat or I am wrong?

As far as I know a week under WTD is from 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sun.

[NickW88]

Muckles. W.t.d is sun to sat or I am wrong?

As far as I know a week under WTD is from 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sun.

That is correct Muckles.

Good post by the way, very handy.

[wee gordy]

I stand corrected,muckles I was getting mixed up my work .working week starts 00.00 sun to 24.00 sat

[adam277]

This is great. WTD is still confusing as [zb] but makes a bit more sense now.

[muckles]

Can I suggest the inclusion that when your driving time is reset by a 45 min break, you haven't lost any driving time from that preceding 4.5 hour block, you just have to take another 45 to access it again!

Does this make sense?

• You do not lose the remaining driving time if you complete a 45 minute break before doing 4.5 hours driving., it just re-sets the driving you can do before needing another 45 minute break to 4.5 hours, or whatever you have left of your daily driving limit.

[NickW88]

Muckles,

Just a thought on The WTD section whereby you mention the 10 hour rule for night working, you haven't mentioned the opt out in the form of a workplace agreement.

[muckles]

Muckles,

Just a thought on The WTD section whereby you mention the 10 hour rule for night working, you haven't mentioned the opt out in the form of a workplace agreement.

It's included in the bullet point further down,

Reference period and night working hours can be extended by workforce agreement

but could change it if people thinks it makes more sense.

This is work in progress to get the best possible reference document for new drivers.

[Evil8Beezle]

Can I suggest the inclusion that when your driving time is reset by a 45 min break, you haven't lost any driving time from that preceding 4.5 hour block, you just have to take another 45 to access it again!

Does this make sense?

• You do not lose the remaining driving time if you complete a 45 minute break before doing 4.5 hours driving., it just re-sets the driving you can do before needing another 45 minute break to 4.5 hours, or whatever you have left of your daily driving limit.

Its damn hard writing sentences in a technically accurate manner, I've never been able to do it, let alone master it...
I know as I've just tried, and I couldn't get close to keeping it as concise as yours!
So I'd say that is pretty good, but we both know this has to pass our TNUK experts first!

[muckles]

Its damn hard writing sentences in a technically accurate manner, I've never been able to do it, let alone master it...
I know as I've just tried, and I couldn't get close to keeping it as concise as yours!
So I'd say that is pretty good, but we both know this has to pass our TNUK experts first!

I wrote the original to fit onto 2 A4 pages, so it would fit into our vehicle folders, and also make it as simple and accurate as possible. It took many hours of editing to get it to that point and adding the WTD put it to 3 pages.

The written word is not my strong point, and although I feel pretty confident with the regulations, I know there are people on here who not only know the regulations back to front, but are also able to write an easy to understand accurate explanation. I'm pleased that Tachograph has had his/her input, and even found faults with it. which I've corrected on the original document.

My aim for this is that it will be readily available as a free download for New (and experienced) drivers as a reference document, but for it to be more use than listening the the "know it all" driver in an RDC waiting room it has to be correct and easy to read.

[eagerbeaver]

Good effort Muckles. I think it is a good thing for driver's to help and encourage newbies, as we ALL had to start somewhere.

One thing I picked up on, and please correct me if I missed it, is the 6 hour WTD thing. I know a lot of newbie's forget that once you have had a WTD break, the 6 hours then starts again. You can fall foul of this when you do a long shift.

Not sure of the best way to word it though?

[muckles]

Good effort Muckles. I think it is a good thing for driver's to help and encourage newbies, as we ALL had to start somewhere.

Thank You, I've always tried to help less experienced drivers, and as you say we all had to start somewhere, but when I started I had an easy to understand reference and it made things a little easier.

One thing I picked up on, and please correct me if I missed it, is the 6 hour WTD thing. I know a lot of newbie's forget that once you have had a WTD break, the 6 hours then starts again. You can fall foul of this when you do a long shift.

Not sure of the best way to word it though?

I thought this covered it.

• Workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.

[eagerbeaver]

Well, yes it does mate really.

But in reality, it can catch people on multi drop type work out, if they have a reasonably early break.

For example, start at 6 am. Have a break at 9.45 am,(45 mins). If you are doing lots of local work, you probably won't hit 4 hr 30 mins DRIVING time, but at 4.30 pm you will need to have another 30 mins for WTD.

It's easy to forget, because in your head, you had a 45 min break earlier.

[Evil8Beezle]

For example, start at 6 am. Have a break at 9.45 am,(45 mins). If you are doing lots of local work, you probably won't hit 4 hr 30 mins DRIVING time, but at 4.30 pm you will need to have another 30 mins for WTD.

You've been working too hard Beaver!

[eagerbeaver]

Lol! The example was more typical of day's gone by Beezle (P&H).

But it did catch a few out, including me initially.

[F-reds]

Such an incredibly handy tool for a new driver, just to boil down the basics into a format that is not the snorefest of GV262.

Well done!

[muckles]

Thanks for the positive feedback.

I've done the main edits and corrections suggested to the word doc and if anybody wants a copy send me a PM with an email address and I'll send you a copy. How quick this happens will be depend on how busy I am, but I will get round to it.

[NickW88]

Nice work.

You should be ashamed of yourself for coming up with something positive on a Lorry drivers forum! Lol

[muckles]

Nice work.

You should be ashamed of yourself for coming up with something positive on a Lorry drivers forum! Lol

Yea! Sorry about that, I suppose I should be slating Newbies, because us proper drivers were born knowing it all .

[tachograph]

Now how would you word Evil8Beezle suggestion about driving hours being re-set after a break, but not losing the remaining hours from your total driving time?

Sorry I couldn't reply earlier but I've just got home

How about something like this.

• Daily driving, 9 hours, can be extended to 10 hours 2 times a week. (regardless of when or how many breaks are taken, the total allowed daily driving time remains at 9 or 10 hours)

[wrighty1]

PM sent, got my cat c test on Monday and this will help me no end when I get work.