Another digital tacho question

geebee45:
Hanson said;

wat im saying is that there is a fault on the siemans because it say on clock face say 4.30 driving then when you do a print out it says you have done 4.45 they have been changed now we have a different make in i know a couple of lads with new scanias this has happened to.

Not heard of this happening with VDO’s, have heard about it with Stoneridge VU’s, Stoneridge are the usual OE fit for Scania. Basically, there was a mismatch between the time values stored in the data memory and those displayed on the LCD, before anybody asks, the stored values were correct, the displayed values were not. This mainly effected vehicles used in multi-drop type operations and operators were issued replacement VU’s via Scania with upgraded software that resolved the problem. It was not possible to install the software to the VU due to the electronic security measures present in the VU software.

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I was just after a bit of advise…pretty much what Hanson says is happening to my tacho.

I drive an 08 plate Scania 8 wheeler with a Stoneridge tacho fitted, this is the 3rd truck in our fleet that i’ve had as my regular ride (last 2 trucks sold and moved me into a newer one)

Now in the last 2 trucks and 18 months I didn’t have 1 infringement (all fitted with the same Stoneridge digital tachos) , they’re quite strict on tacho regs and even 1 overspeed results in loss of bonus so its kind of beneficial for me to be a good boy!!

I’ve have on a couple occasions (in my older trucks ) run up to 4.28 when trying to find somewhere to park and never had an issue, so when I took the 08 plate over at the start of the year it was just another Scania off the fleet…or so I thought…

So fast forward to March and I pull up for my break at 4.25, have 50 mins and off I go, no problem, or so I thought…until I get back to the yard, card downloaded (download cards every night) and I get the lovely message to say ‘insufficient break in 1st period’ (or something like that)

I inform my TM that I stopped at 4.25 and went back to the truck and did a printout, the drive time recorded on the VU totaled 4.32 :open_mouth:

When I questioned the fact something wasn’t right with it I was told “oh yeah, they do that sometimes, we’ve had them read upto 8 mins out before, but the new software should have sorted it and according to Stoneridge the display is only to be used as a guide as its not accurate”

I was then handed my ‘non conformance’ and had my bonus stopped for the quarter :cry:

From then on I’ve been stopping at 4.20ish for my my break and had no problem, until last Thursday when I when I pulled up at 4.20 for my break, had around 55 mins and then carried on for the afternoon.

I get back to the yard, put my card in the machine and what pops up on the screen■■? Thats right, INSUFFICIENT BREAK IN 1ST PERIOD again!!

Again, I question it, go and do another printout and drive time recorded yet again is 4.32.

So now the display has under read by 12 mins, I asked them to get it checked out and all I get back is “It’ll be down to ‘rounding up’, i’ve spoken to Scania and its got the latest software on it and I’ve spoken to Stoneridge technical and they’ve said again that the display is only to be used as a ‘guide’ so there’s nothing more I can do”

I likened it to going to a cashpoint and on the machine the display says you’re going to withdraw £20 but it only gives you £15…He said its nothing like??

I’m just struggling to get my head round the fact that this is supposed to be a legally calibrated machine, yet the display that tells you how much driving you’ve done is telling a different story to the unit that stores the information…which apparently is ‘normal’■■?

So yet again, for the sake of 2 mins driving beyond my control i’ve lost my bonus…something doesn’t seem right, I just want to know if theres anything else that can be done■■?

Thanks,

Roj

Just park up at 4.00 hrs then .

bald bloke:
Just park up at 4.00 hrs then .

Thats one option!! I’m more bothered about whether i’m just being fobbed off with excuses or whether there is something wrong with the tacho unit…

rogerreno:

bald bloke:
Just park up at 4.00 hrs then .

Thats one option!! I’m more bothered about whether i’m just being fobbed off with excuses or whether there is something wrong with the tacho unit…

Well I don’t know but something is not right somewhere.

What do you expect from something designed by a committee of politicians?

Time to wake it up by connecting it to the mains!

It needs to go back to main dealer to be recalibrated to go to other work

Kenny1975:
Was driving a brand new MAN TGA 440 with Siemens Digital tachograph, went in shoved in digi card, modded entry, went away did my checks. Finished my checks was told wouldnt be leaving for an hour so put it on POA, went away locked up cab to have a coffee and a chat.

Come back an hour later find tachograph on rest, think well musta put it on rest by mistake. Go out start doing my run, go to a place other work for 1hr unloading truck check before i leave cab its on other work, back in cab tacho an hour later it has been on rest for an hour.

Turns out with this siemens everytime you remove the key the tachograph will go onto rest and start flashing for about 10secs giving you the option to change it to another mode.

Is this a fault or new way they are setting them up. Its a pain in the arse because if you stop automatically goes to other work as usual, but as soon as the key is removed it goes onto rest, which is a pain because as soon as you remove the key the tachograph is no longer illuminated and you can’t see it.

Spoke with TM about it thought it was strange knew nothing about it tho.

Was driving a brand new MAN TGA 440 with Siemens Digital tachograph, went in shoved in digi card, modded entry, went away did my checks. Finished my checks was told wouldnt be leaving for an hour so put it on POA, went away locked up cab to have a coffee and a chat.

Come back an hour later find tachograph on rest, think well musta put it on rest by mistake. Go out start doing my run, go to a place other work for 1hr unloading truck check before i leave cab its on other work, back in cab tacho an hour later it has been on rest for an hour.

Turns out with this siemens everytime you remove the key the tachograph will go onto rest and start flashing for about 10secs giving you the option to change it to another mode.

Is this a fault or new way they are setting them up. Its a pain in the arse because if you stop automatically goes to other work as usual, but as soon as the key is removed it goes onto rest, which is a pain because as soon as you remove the key the tachograph is no longer illuminated and you can’t see it.

Spoke with TM about it thought it was strange knew nothing about it tho.

Doesn’t do that with the Siemens one I use. Almost wish it did as I forgot to put it onto rest while on ferry the other day so it recorded 4 hours 10 minutes of other work. :frowning: :frowning:

Coffeeholic:
Doesn’t do that with the Siemens one I use. Almost wish it did as I forgot to put it onto rest while on ferry the other day so it recorded 4 hours 10 minutes of other work. :frowning: :frowning:

Nor mine :confused:

Its the first time ive ever seen it myself, i drive for agencies and get hit with different trucks most days. There is another bunch of Volvo’s brand new with Siemens tachographs none of them do this. Infact the other TGA’s maybe a few months old none of them do this.

I assume its possibly a fault, just wondering if anyone else had any experiences similar since it is a brand new truck 150 kilometers on the clock when i started driving wondered if it was a new way they were setting it up.

Kenny1975:
Its the first time ive ever seen it myself, i drive for agencies and get hit with different trucks most days. There is another bunch of Volvo’s brand new with Siemens tachographs none of them do this. Infact the other TGA’s maybe a few months old none of them do this.

I assume its possibly a fault, just wondering if anyone else had any experiences similar since it is a brand new truck 150 kilometers on the clock when i started driving wondered if it was a new way they were setting it up.

The only thing I can think of is its a brand spanking new Tacho as I think the manufactures are changing them slightly.
I have an 07 which will still reset my driving time even if my 2nd break is less than 30 mins.It will also count POA as rest (although it is’nt )and also reset my driving time.so I can only come to the assumption that they have made some changes.
I also heard that (driver talk probably ■■■■■■■■)that all digi’s will have to be replAced cause of pressure from some EU countries regarding the clocking up of minutes not driven.
Apparently the new ones will stop the clock when the vehicle stops and not accuimilate the 2 minutes of driving etc when you’ve only moved forward 6 feet.

Im sure I’ll be corrected :unamused:

AFAIK there have been no changes and none are planned in the near future.

Nothing authouratative, but I have heard that there is an intention that any period of POA, that could otherwise count towards a Break, will be deemed as such, and Driving Time will be reset accordingly. Which will make it a bit awkward for some of the runs that I do where, following 1 hour Driving, a 15 minute break, followed by POA, means that I need only another 30 minute break if the remainder of the journey goes over 3 1/2 hours, which it does, and frequently goes over 41/2 hours.

As regards the ‘added minutes’, I did read that certainly the French were requesting a ‘derogation’ from the requirement to fit Digital Tachos until the Type Approval Regs were amended, so there may be some foundation in that.

Krankee:
Nothing authouratative, but I have heard that there is an intention that any period of POA, that could otherwise count toeards a Break, will be deemed as such,

You’re not thinking of the thing where VOSA will deem the first 45 minutes of POA to be break while double manning are you?

I’m aware of that, because it is not possible for the second crew-man for record Break whilst the vehicle is in motion.

I’ve already had vehicle(s) where apparently, 20 mins or so POA, followed by a 30 min break, have resulted in the Driving Time being reset. Now whether it is the vehicle software version that is doing this, or whether the DT is interpreting it accordingly, I have yet to discover.

Krankee:
I’ve already had vehicle(s) where apparently, 20 mins or so POA, followed by a 30 min break, have resulted in the Driving Time being reset.

They all do that. They will also wrongly reset after 3 x 15 minutes break. The software was finalised before the rule changes and for some strange reason way back when they also decided that POA would count toward resetting the driving timer. This is of course wrong and what the tacho does should not be relied on break wise.

Late model tachos from Actia and VDO can be programmed so that when the ignition is turned off the VU will automatically select rest, irrespective of what the tacho automatically selected (work immediately after driving stopped) or what the driver selected, availability for example. Apparently drivers / companies of a nation not very far from the UK wanted this. It appears that the two vehicle manufacturers who promote this have either a three pointed star or an animal (dog ? lion?) on their cabs.
There is much debate as to whether this software change means that the VU no-longer complies with the specification laid down in Annex 1B, but in the meantime the UK tacho centres are to be told that when tachos are calibrated / checked the ‘auto change to rest’ function is to be disabled.
The real concern is that if drivers don’t know about the VU fitted to their vehicle does something different, then they are going to end up recording activity incorrectly.

we have had stonebridge fitted in the scania we have, they have had to be replaced because they was showing you had done 20 mins more driving over the day than the digital face said i have heard that a lot of new scanias are the same

This is something that i fail to understand, As some of you will know and most of you wont care i drive an actros and although it is an analogue tacho it still has the driving time function on the display, So it shows the driving time and then below that the pause symbol which relates to both break and poa. Now while im glad that it doesnt clock up stopped time whilst you have tacho set on other work mode i find it most annoying that i have had say 15 mins break to keep me in line with the wtd but then i have say 15 or 30 or more minutes on poa and then this is added to the 15 mins shown on the pause part of the display and if then the 45 mins has been reached or exceeded then it resets the pause to zero and also the driving time to zero (once you move away)

Surely it wouldnt require that much more additional programming to have driving time at the top then poa symbol below that then break symbol below that (and if the truck manufacturers were feeling really flash then also add the other work symbol below that too) all showing the amount of time spent on that particular mode

And why does the driving time need to be reset after 45 mins has been taken that is a needless part of programming in my opinion

Just seems to me that the manufacturers are trying to be clever in a half arsed way and if they want to be half arsed about it then why bother in the first place.

hanson:
we have had siemans fitted in the scania we have, they have had to be replaced because they was showing you had done 20 mins more driving over the day than the digital face said i have heard that a lot of new scanias are the same

Im not sure about this extra driving. I reckon that for many years we have been very lucky and uneconomical with the truth.

I have a seperate telemetry system linked to a tracker and email system which gives a display of working, driving and rest times. They are actually very close. I have done my own tests using a countdown timer on the phone. I have done tests on open roads like driving to Scotland or when driving around the Peripherique and my tacho shows similar information. probably gaining 6 or 7 minutes in rushhour Paris over 3 hours