Utter back and forth balls.
The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Monkey241:
Utter back and forth balls.The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Possibly said without knowing how things were back in 2010 when the discussion you’ve resurrected took place.
Back then, a lot of TMs were… let’s just say… quite aggressive in what they wanted.
When judged by today’s standards, I make it that your comment is spot-on.
Monkey241:
Utter back and forth balls.The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Have you got a Delorean?
Monkey241:
Utter back and forth balls.The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
But you’re confusing 2 separate things, sorry boss I’m shattered, I’m gonna have to stop, that applies at any point in the shift.
Then you’ve got what can be planned, and reducing your daily rest is no different to the rest of the regs.
Now if I were a TM and a driver was saying he was too tired to drive several times a week, I’d be questioning if I thought it was a good idea to have in out in a truck at all, wouldn’t you?
stevieboy308:
Monkey241:
Utter back and forth balls.The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
But you’re confusing 2 separate things, sorry boss I’m shattered, I’m gonna have to stop, that applies at any point in the shift.
Then you’ve got what can be planned, and reducing your daily rest is no different to the rest of the regs.
Now if I were a TM and a driver was saying he was too tired to drive several times a week, I’d be questioning if I thought it was a good idea to have in out in a truck at all, wouldn’t you?
I’d suggest a driver pulling over regularly at 9 hours after 14 hours rest is a different kettle of fish to a driver refusing to take reduced rest after a 14 hour shift
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Monkey241:
stevieboy308:
Monkey241:
Utter back and forth balls.The decision to reduce rest in a safety critical industry lies fully with the driver.
Whether that’s written or no… it’s a very simple fact.
I have not found any TM willing to order me to drive once the magic words ‘I’m knackered’ are uttered.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
But you’re confusing 2 separate things, sorry boss I’m shattered, I’m gonna have to stop, that applies at any point in the shift.
Then you’ve got what can be planned, and reducing your daily rest is no different to the rest of the regs.
Now if I were a TM and a driver was saying he was too tired to drive several times a week, I’d be questioning if I thought it was a good idea to have in out in a truck at all, wouldn’t you?
I’d suggest a driver pulling over regularly at 9 hours after 14 hours rest is a different kettle of fish to a driver refusing to take reduced rest after a 14 hour shift
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
A driver always takes a reduced rest after a 14 hour shift
My company has increased its workload by a third and are now planning ridiculous routes to cope with the demand instead of increasing the staff:
eg: 16 deliveries (5 of which take on average an hour to complete) and 8.5 hours total driving time (worked out on the basis that my lorry, which is restricted to 55, does 70 on the motorways) all within the M25 and finishing in the congestion zone… yea good luck with that!
Naturally after a few weeks of this a lot of deliveries were being failed and then put straight back on the next days route which resulted in a knock on effect. So when i called the transport office to say i will be coming back to the yard with a load of goods, still to be delivered, because i wanted my 11 hour rest, They said " NO! you must reduce your daily rest" to which i replied " Im sorry, i didnt know you were driving this lorry . . . oh wait a minute your not!" then proceeded to the yard!
Two investigations later and a pending disciplinary and i now find myself asking the question. . .
BY LAW CAN AN EMPLOYER MAKE A DRIVER REDUCE HIS DAILY REST PERIOD EVEN IF THE DRIVER HASN’T ALL WEEK■■?
one word
NO
Short answer is…no. No one can force you to reduce your daily rest.
However…a company is entitled to plan you to a reduced daily rest, if you have one legally available. Whether or not you will be sufficiently rested after 9 hrs to be able to safely resume duty is another matter.
I know some drivers who absolutely have to have 8 hrs sleep otherwise they feel very tired the following day…it would be a brave employer who insisted a driver went out once he had informed them that he felt too tired to drive due to insufficient sleep caused by a reduced rest.
The last company i worked for…the TM was constantly telling the planners not to plan for more than 13 hrs a day & 9 hrs driving…didn’t make a blind bit of difference though…the planners still tried to insist on reduced daily rest or 10 hrs driving…
At the end of the day, only you know how tired you are, and therefore only you know whether you will be safe taking a reduced rest or not.
. 
Welcome Fostar .
DonutUK:
…it would be a brave employer who insisted a driver went out once he had informed them that he felt too tired to drive due to insufficient sleep caused by a reduced rest.
And if they do insist when you are tired then ask for that decision in writing including the fact that you stated you are too tired - I’ll guarantee they won’t do it and back off
Alternatively - reduce the daily rest and then after a few hours stop and have a 2 hour nap - then explain to TM that, for safety reasons, you were too tired to carry on driving because of too litle rest.
Unions love these types of employers as employment tribunals will err on the side of the employee where a safety issue is concerned
This is what my union rep told me about a driver he represented at an employment tribunal as that driver had been sacked for refusing to reduce his daily rest
The argument that the rep won the case on was that it was at the discression of the driver and not the employer to reduce that rest especially as the driver had said that it was very likely to cause tiredness from lack of sleep time.
Drivers rules (The rep mentioned EU regs) were presented and the tribunal agreed that those rules were for the driver and not the employer but the employer had a duty not to put the driver in a position where the rules would be compromised.
If anyone wants clarification then I have the contact details for that rep so please PM me.
Fostar:
BY LAW CAN AN EMPLOYER MAKE A DRIVER REDUCE HIS DAILY REST PERIOD EVEN IF THE DRIVER HASN’T ALL WEEK■■?
In the scenario you describe i’m pretty certain its ok. Put it this way, they are not asking you to do anything illegal.I know for a fact of several large bluechip companies who have discipling drivers for this very thing and they (the drivers)even failed their appeal so i’d bank on the fact the employers know what they’re about. It was called failing to carry out a reasonable management request.
The outcome of the disciplinary will depend on what they found in their investigation, so what did you tell them as a reason you couldn’t do it?
I hope you never said what you just posted here!!!
Why the hell do you all put up with it ,tell them you can not do it get euro mp steven hughes on your case and maybe ron web they are all for drivers so I hear
Mike-C:
I hope you never said what you just posted here!!!
Fostar:
i will be coming back to the yard with a load of goods
I think I can see what Mike is getting at (but I could be wrong - again !!)
Were you too tired to stay out 2 more hours at that point ? - if not then there is nothing to stop you doing those 2 hours of deliveries and then having 11 hours off - ok, only 9 of them would count for the 24 hour period, a reduced daily rest, but you would still have the 11 hours off you required to be rested enough for the next day although you would be starting 2 hours later than you did on this day
ROG:
I think I can see what Mike is getting at (but I could be wrong - again !!)
i think you got it ROG, if he said he didn’t feel up to it or whatever then anyone would be hard pushed to tell or request him to do otherwise if he’s tired. If he’s just said i’m having 11 off, i’m not staying out and delivering anymore and basically like he said i reckon he’ll go down the same ‘failing to carry out a reasonable request’ route.
ROG:
Mike-C:
I hope you never said what you just posted here!!!Fostar:
i will be coming back to the yard with a load of goodsI think I can see what Mike is getting at (but I could be wrong - again !!)
Were you too tired to stay out 2 more hours at that point ? - if not then there is nothing to stop you doing those 2 hours of deliveries and then having 11 hours off - ok, only 9 of them would count for the 24 hour period, a reduced daily rest, but you would still have the 11 hours off you required to be rested enough for the next day although you would be starting 2 hours later than you did on this day
Rog I think you missed the bit where he said that the job is worked out on a truck limited to 90 kmh running at 70 mph on motorways 
.Yeah right they’ll probably want him to start at the usual time and reduce the next day’s rest period and the ones after that 
My advice would be walk away while he’s still got a clean licence and no infringements against him.It sounds like just another zb multi drop job.
the law says you have to have 11 hours off which CAN be reduced to 9 hours 3 times a week but i have always assumed the intention was aimed at those sleeping in the truck which i would use in my defence at a disciplinary. i wont reduce if i am going home during that time because it equates to 5 - 6 hours sleep which is generally recognised as unhealthy even if it is relatively normal in the UK. when you sleep in the truck there is very little to distract you from sleeping. at home you have commuting, family, a proper meal etc etc etc which all add up to you losing precious sleeping time, especially if a mini crisis has arisen as is so often the case. if you reduce and have a crash, how do you think it will look in court when it all comes out that you chose to work after not having had enough sleep? its your licence and the law states 11 hours off!
Carryfast:
My advice would be walk away while he’s still got a clean licence and no infringements against him.It sounds like just another zb multi drop job.
Nail, head
on my induction course the trainer covered this point…it is the driver…and the driver alone that decides if his rest is to be reduced…so say dhl.
Thanks to all who posted. I can see from the varied answers that this is a grey area in the industry. I will be keeping certain quotes in mind when i have my disciplinary. Yes at that particular time i did feel tired but since then the work load is still too much and the routing (done in manchester who wonders why i cant get my 18 tonne 13’11" lorry across the hammersmith bridge) is still ridiculous. So now what was a genuine need for a rest has become a recent occurance due to the fact that i dont get paid by the hour and so have no incentive to reduce my hours only that i may loose my job . . . well thanks to them my current attitude is “TAH-LAH”.
xamtex:
on my induction course the trainer covered this point…it is the driver…and the driver alone that decides if his rest is to be reduced…so say dhl.
At your site maybe, at ours you go out on your route and if you have to reduce you have to reduce simple as. They don’t tend to plan you less than 12 off but if you have a long day the one day for whatever reason then it means a reduced rest. To be fair if you tell them you’re too tired to have a nine off they will do their best to change it.