hi folks,just want to try and clear a few points…
i drive a 13 ton iveco rigid for a local racing pigeon amalg,i only drive this truck as ive no fulltime employment at present,my day starts at 5pm on a friday,i then collect the birds from 7 towns then have to drive to the liberation site,anywhere from littlehampton to le fert bernard,exeter etc, i no i dont need a tacho in driving in the uk as its livestock,(pls correct me if ime wrong)point is, ime driving from 5pm friday till approx 3pm saterday, its a long time and normlay i might get 1-2 hrs sleep(if ime lucky) is this legal ? on longer trips ie,truro and over the water ,i get an extra day, i have to use a tacho in france and drive to the book as ime not sure of the law there,the truck is taxed as a private lite goods and is not being used for hire or reward, has anyone any experiance of this pls…
i need enlightenment…
bernie
My opinion is that you need a tacho.
I presume it is a club you work for.
Why do you need a tacho in France but not here?
I doubt the ministry would agree about livestock being exempt from driving hours regulations.
If anything I think the regs are more stringent with this.
quote…My opinion is that you need a tacho.
from what i can gather,i only need a tacho if ive been driving comercialy for the rest of the week…
no offence wheelnut , this is the reason for my post, i cant find any reference to this and ime going by seasoned class1 drivers who have been convoying for years, i just wanted the legal standpoint on it(ive been driving class1 for 15yrs myself)…
ime looking forward to more comments…
bernie
ps, my sig says it all 
Hi bernie,
You could try sending a pm to Denis F
He is the resident expert on livestock.
cheers
STEVE.
Hi Bernie
bernie:
, i no i dont need a tacho in driving in the uk as its livestock,(pls correct me if ime wrong)
technically you are right - there is an tacho exemption for vehicles used for carrying live animals from farms to local markets (and vice-versa), or from markets to slaughterhouses. However as that is only part of the work of a livestock haulier you have to explain any missing miles - and the easiest way is to use a tacho!! The authorities dislike this exemption - and I notice it is likely to be removed when the new rules are finalised.
Basically you need a tacho at all times for livestock - it’s no different than any other truck. and even if the exemption was legal, it wouldn’t cover your racing pigeons!
point is, ime driving from 5pm friday till approx 3pm saterday, its a long time and normlay i might get 1-2 hrs sleep(if ime lucky) is this legal ?
in my opinion, you should stick to driver hours rules - if you have an accident because you are tired and have no tacho discs to show rests then you’re for the high jump
,the truck is taxed as a private lite goods and is not being used for hire or reward, has anyone any experiance of this pls…
although if it’s transporting pigeons for several club members it may need have a restricted O licence - another grey area!!
Another thing that concerns me is the length of time the birds are transported, The Welfare of Animals (Transport ) Order 1997 lays down limits to travelling times, rest periods etc - you may be able to claim exemption if you can convince the authorities that the transport is non-commercial but I wouldn’t guarantee it 
guidance on WATO can be found here ( although you might need to dig around a bit to find the relevant parts !!
My first answer stands on this post.
If you need a tacho in france then you need one here. We have to run by the same rules since the EC 3820/85 rules were brought in.
I doubt whether the ministry or police will class racing pigeons as exempt from driving hours rules when there are regulations in force to limit driving any other type of goods vehicle.
Maybe Ladytrucker has the same exemption with her racehorses.
There are 3 types of regs:
EC Nat & Int: 3820/85 apply to drivers of most vehicles, being used commercially, of over 3.5 tonnes gvw inclusive of the weight of a trailer.
AETR: Similar to EC which apply to drivers of vehicles over 3.5 on journeys to or through countries outside the EEC
Domestic Driving: Apply to drivers up to 3.5 tonnes gvw and drivers who are exempt from EC rules.
Domestic rules are: Daily Driving Limit 10 hours in 11 hours duty.
you are exempt from the daily duty limit if you do not drive.
If you do not drive more than 4 hours on every day of the week you are exempt from daily duty limit.
If you are exempt from using a tachograph then you must use a record book if:
A) The vehicle is subject to O licensing.
or
B)You drive more than 4 hours a day or outside a 50km area of your base.
The rules do state that there are some exemptions from EC rules.
One of these is “some types of livestock transport”
If the EC rules dont get you the Domestic ones will!
Here endeth the first lesson.
There is a maximum fine of £2500 for breach of drivers hours rules and a maximum fine of £5000 for failing to install or use a tachograph.
Deliberate falsification of a tachograph chart can result in up to 2 years improsonment and £5000 fine.
This applies to both the driver and anyone whose orders the driver is following.
Are pigeons worth the risk?
From the RHA website
thanks for all yr input ,but ime still unsure so ime going to er to the side of caution and use a tacho…
quote…If you are exempt from using a tachograph then you must use a record book if:
A) The vehicle is subject to O licensing.
or
B)You drive more than 4 hours a day or outside a 50km area of your base.
The rules do state that there are some exemptions from EC rules.
couple of points.
the truck has no o licence
its a nonprofit making truck so no hire or reward(runs at a loss if anything lol )
ime going to clarify this after the weekend once and for all… 
bernie:
couple of points.
the truck has no o licence
its a nonprofit making truck so no hire or reward(runs at a loss if anything lol )
ime going to clarify this after the weekend once and for all…
wether it’s hire and reward doesn’t matter - it’s if it’s commercial use or private use that matters!
If one person owned the truck and pigeons and drove the truck than it would be private - anything other than that is in a grey area 
Who owns the truck ? - who pays the diesel? - are you paid to drive it?
it can be classed as commercial if someone just contributes towards the diesel -
There’s no (blooming 