Split from 6 hour rule

ROG:
For WTD the rule is - a driver should do no more than 6 hours work at any point in the shift without A BREAK OF AT LEAST 15 MINS

As long as you are taking the second break of 30 before the 4.5 hours driving total occurs then on the work you do everything seems to be covered

Link please.

Note: Edit by Rikki-UK: This has been split and moved into here from another discussion in the newbies forum, as it moved from how the law is enforced and what a driver should do, into the intricacies of how the legislation is actually written

Honestscott76:

ROG:
For WTD the rule is - a driver should do no more than 6 hours work at any point in the shift without A BREAK OF AT LEAST 15 MINS

Link please.

This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

Honestscott76:
This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

That is legally wrong

Hmmm … is there a connection with CM and this site :question:

ROG:

Honestscott76:
This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

That is legally wrong

Hmmm … is there a connection with CM and this site :question:

Appears perfectly clear to me.

Honestscott76:

ROG:

Honestscott76:
This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

That is legally wrong

Hmmm … is there a connection with CM and this site :question:

Appears perfectly clear to me.

The commercial motor link or the actual legal legislation link :question:

ROG:

Honestscott76:

ROG:

Honestscott76:
This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

That is legally wrong

Hmmm … is there a connection with CM and this site :question:

Appears perfectly clear to me.

The commercial motor link or the actual legal legislation link :question:

Again, page 9 Section 4 - researchbriefings.files.parliame … N01758.pdf

ROG:

Honestscott76:

ROG:

Honestscott76:
This fully explains, “The WTD states drivers must have a 30-minute break before or at the end of a six-hour working period”. commercialmotor.com/news/dri … -wtd-rules

That is legally wrong

Hmmm … is there a connection with CM and this site :question:

Appears perfectly clear to me.

The commercial motor link or the actual legal legislation link :question:

Again, see page 2 Section 2.1 - apse.org.uk/apse/index.cfm/membe … gulations/

From the official .gov site on working hours (I prefer to use the .gov site than others):

breaks:

mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes
breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration

Source: gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … time-rules

If it don’t say gov.uk I wouldn’t trust it.

Rather than rely on other website authors’ (often misinformed, even more often poorly/inaccurately worded) interpretations, simply read and understand what the legislation actually says and take your breaks accordingly.

I’ve only been doing this lorry driving lark for about 10 years, so I’m almost a newbie, but almost all of it has been “multi drop” with relatively long periods of “work” compared to the time spent driving (typical deliveries for me are anything from 20 minutes to a couple of hours, all of it working). In all that time I have generally taken only a 15 minute break during the first six hours of my shift, then taken either a further 15 minutes before finishing or a further 30 minutes if my driving time was likely to exceed 4.5 hours (or working time was going to exceed 9 hours). I have never had an infringement while taking breaks this way…

Héraultais:

Honestscott76:

ROG:
For WTD the rule is - a driver should do no more than 6 hours work at any point in the shift without A BREAK OF AT LEAST 15 MINS

Link please.

The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005

I don’t know why random articles are being posted when Héraultais has posted a link to the actual regulations, not someone’s interpretation of the regulations but the actual working time regulations that mobile workers have to work to.

In actual fact the regulations do not stipulate the duration of the required break for the 6 hour rule it simply say that “No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break”, as the length of the break is not stipulated it’s assumed to be the shortest break that will count for the RT(WT)R, the shortest break that will count for the RT(WT)R is 15 minutes, hence the break that’s required before going over 6 hours working time is 15 minutes.

Roymondo:
Rather than rely on other website authors’ (often misinformed, even more often poorly/inaccurately worded) interpretations, simply read and understand what the legislation actually says and take your breaks accordingly.

and that is the issue how you interpret the law…

for instance (the red bits are mine the rest from the .Gov website)

7.—(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break. so you gotta after 6 hours have a break- but for how long ■■

(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time. - aha :bulb: :bulb: a break is defined as a period of time of 30 minutes or is it :wink: :wink: :wink:

(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.

(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each… so if the break is 30 minutes after 6 hours you can break it down and have 15 minutes of them early- but do you need a total of 30 minutes by the time you have worked over 6 hours?

From the CM article is this scenario (bear in mind this article was written in 2011) We have VOSA’s interpretation at that time

let’s say you drive for two hours to a RDC you have 15 minutes break on site while waiting to be unloaded, are still at the RDC 3 hours and 45 minutes later, can you then take the 30 minute second break to be on the right side of both laws?, or does the break for WTD have to be a block of 30 minutes?”

total of 6 hours work with 15 minutes WTD break…

The man from VOSA then gave their interpretation

Gordon MacDonald, traffic enforcement policy advisor at VOSA, says: “The question only involves two hours worth of driving, so the first 15 minute break fulfils the driver’s obligation for part of a 45 minute break after four and a half hours driving. There is no requirement to take another break in relation to EC driving, at least not until the driver does another two and a half hours driving, at which point he’d half to take 30 minutes break.

“As far as WTD breaks are concerned, these can be broken down into periods of no less than 15 minutes. Therefore, having taken one break of 15 minutes after two hours, he then needs to take another 15 minute break after the lengthy spell at the RDC. The driver obviously can’t use this additional 15 minutes towards his EU break, because the second break must be at least 30 minutes.”

It is still slightly amibigous but I read that as VOSA reckon the required break for mobile workers is 30 minutes before they have worked 6hours and 1 minute . Now it maybe that VOSA have changed their interpretation since 2011 if so I would be glad to pass it onto the editorial team to update the article

You can put as many bits in red as you like - As I said, I’ve been taking 15 minutes during the first 6 hours and then either a further 15 or 30 minutes later on in the shift for the past 10+ years and never had an infringement for doing it this way.

PS… I am not arguing for either interpretation just adding to the discussion however I do think the interpretation relies on one word

7.1, 7.2 all refer to A break
7.4 which relates to the 15 minute chunks refers to EACH break may be broken down

If you accept that then the breaks refered to in 7.1 ,2 are 30 minute

At the end of the day until VOSA actually successfully prosecute someone (if they ever do) then there is no case law to clarify.

From the DfT who are the ‘bosses’ of VOSA/DVSA/DVLA

gov.uk/government/uploads/s … _rules.pdf

Cannot work for more than 6 hours
without a break. A break should be at
least 15 minutes long

This site has a sticky on the 6 hour break rule = viewtopic.php?f=7&t=99021

But the other also gov.uk website which has the actual law as it is written into legislation says what I copied above. when it says Each Break can be broken down I am pretty sure a decent lawyer would use the legislation rather than the simplified guidance if they were prosecuting- I would say that whoever the unlucky sod was who got hauled up for the test case would have a reasonable defence as well by quoting the guidance.

How come all those in the know on this site as well as all the tachograph checking companies have correctly interpreted the law correctly yet CM has not :question:

ROG:
How come all those in the know on this site as well as all the tachograph checking companies have correctly interpreted the law correctly yet CM has not :question:

CM hasn’t interpreted it… the quote from the article is a quote from the man VOSA- the quote from the article is relating to the 30 minute rule is a quote from the driver who contacted CM asking the question.

How you get from CM quoting two individuals in an article to interpreting the law either way is a bit of a jump.

as for my self in this discussion I thought I made it clear that I am not arguing for either interpretation just adding to the discussion