Just a quick post to add to this debate that may help any newbies?
I passed over a year ago in an Auto with Pete Smythes. Have driven about 10 times since ( I’m not looking for full time). Yesterday was my first experience of a proper manual, a scania 4 over 4. (I don’t count the 7.5s I’ve driven which basically have car gear boxes.
To be honest after a few miles it was fine. I had previously checked out links Rog had published about gear box types, watched a few you tube videos and I was ok. Had a few issues to start with on hills, changing down to soon and losing all power as I kept changing.
Soon got into the swing, 2nd to fourth, flick upto 5th, 6th then drop into 8th.
A few pull offs in 5th as a rolled to roundabouts and soon started dropping into 7th and 6th earlier on hills.
Don’t be scared of coming up against manuals, I certainly don’t feel I should have learned in a manual.
Tbh been looking forward to trying a 'proper big ’ gearbox!
If you can get a few hours practice in a manual then go for it imo. Although they’re like white elephants nowadays it’s good to have some experience in one.
It will never be the case, but I think it’s fine to pass class 2 in an auto, they just have car gearboxs. Class 1 should be passed in a manual artic with at least a 12 speed box to get people ready for the real world. If a w+d setup had at least a 12 speed box, I would say that should be allowed. The reversing exercise could do with an overhaul too, there should be a 90 degree reverse from both sides. And before people start crying over course lengths, when I originally did my class 1, it was a 10 day course, if people want the qualifications they will be prepared to train for them.
Pass your class 1 in a manual every time tbh,do you really need to taught how to press D,N or R really?.
Is the 4 day plus test long enough,not just in a training point of view to drive an artic which is a challenge itself but how many posts on here say I passed my test got a gig but I’m buggered to do the basics really.
Not the newbies fault but not like a car get in turn key off you go,yes a car test gets ou passed and its not rocket science to drive a car(not that you would know it sometimes)
Like already said a 90’ turn would be good having to reverse into a marked bay 90 degrees.
When I decided to get my licence I was set on the notion of learning on a manual.
Have come around to think an auto will be easier to learn on since its one less thing to worry about. Secondly it seems from what I’ve read on here that I’m more likely to drive autos in the real world. So might as well just go with the flow.
Once I’m let lose if I get any kind of manual I’m sure I’ll crash it around a bit and get it figured out.
My only experience of an auto was an assessment drive in an ocado van. It was very easy to drive though my left foot was bored.
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Tell you lads summat you’re missing a bloody trick if you think auto is easier, no it isn’t and i’ll tell you why.
Cos unless the training company has Swedish tackle, the delays between pressing the throttle and the gearbox actually doing something on most of the other crap makes driving smoothly harder.
With a clutch there is no delay, soon as you apply a bit of throttle and start to engage that clutch the lorry is yours, you aint waiting for the bally thing to have a meeting and send a memo to the bloody box which might be ignored and they well vote for the wrong gear just to help things along, to make normal progress you have to think and act about a second before you want action to take out some of the delay.
Most manual training gearboxes on artics will be a standard 4 over 4, a simple 4 speed synchromesh box with a switch so when you reach number 4 and want 5 you just flick the switch up (or the lever over to the next gate if its a slapover) and start from number 1 again, honestly its childs play.
Trust me if you learn on manuals and get used to driving with them, you will be as anti the autos as i am…the only real exception to this is the Swedish stuff, Volvos (fitted to Renaults) are class leading autos, and i understand that the new gen Scania gearbox has been improved (it needed it) by fitting a brake to the layshaft which speeds gearchanges up a lot though i’m yet to drive one mesen.
Nothing though can compete with a manual for maneuvering control save the torque converter gearbox as found in a Terberg Tug.
The thing is if you train with a manual you’ll be confident no matter what lorry the job you get chucks you the keys for.
Juddian:
Tell you lads summat you’re missing a bloody trick if you think auto is easier, no it isn’t and i’ll tell you why.Cos unless the training company has Swedish tackle, the delays between pressing the throttle and the gearbox actually doing something on most of the other crap makes driving smoothly harder.
With a clutch there is no delay, soon as you apply a bit of throttle and start to engage that clutch the lorry is yours, you aint waiting for the bally thing to have a meeting and send a memo to the bloody box which might be ignored and they well vote for the wrong gear just to help things along, to make normal progress you have to think and act about a second before you want action to take out some of the delay.
Most manual training gearboxes on artics will be a standard 4 over 4, a simple 4 speed synchromesh box with a switch so when you reach number 4 and want 5 you just flick the switch up (or the lever over to the next gate if its a slapover) and start from number 1 again, honestly its childs play.
Trust me if you learn on manuals and get used to driving with them, you will be as anti the autos as i am…the only real exception to this is the Swedish stuff, Volvos (fitted to Renaults) are class leading autos, and i understand that the new gen Scania gearbox has been improved (it needed it) by fitting a brake to the layshaft which speeds gearchanges up a lot though i’m yet to drive one mesen.
Nothing though can compete with a manual for maneuvering control save the torque converter gearbox as found in a Terberg Tug.
The thing is if you train with a manual you’ll be confident no matter what lorry the job you get chucks you the keys for.
I hear what you’re saying. From my point of view sitting in that cab for the first time if I’ve got one less thing to think about eg changing gears. Then that’ll make my life a tad easier as I can think more about all the other stuff.
I can believe that once I’ve got experience, used to the size of the vehicle and am doing much of the driving subconsciously then the manual might well be superior.
Once I’ve done my practical training got my licence and been let lose I might come back to this topic with a different opinion.
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Whatever type of gearbox you pass in the chance of ever getting that exact gearbox again is very small
I totally take on board the comments as to the perceived advantage of driving a manual. But I must defend auto as well. I have yet to drive an auto that doesn’t respond to a planned approach or a quick blip on the throttle just before the gear is required.
Each to their own. But I know what I would learn on if I was in the market. I see no reason to make the job more difficult than it needs to be.
Pete 
Passed both class 1&2 in autos and since then have driven a manual rigid but only auto artics . The idea of driving a manual artic does not worry me as learning to manoeuvre and reading the road are arguably more important than the type of gearbox you have . We see newbies and long serving guys come into our yard and both struggle to reverse into the bays between other trailers .
To drive a class 1or2 requires a lot more than gear changes , I can understand why there are those who denounce autos but as virtually or all trucks are now auto due to emissions and fuel economy the chances of a new driver encountering a manual are slim but as has been said in various posts on these forums most people will have a play in their truck and will soon learn about gear changes .
Juddian:
Tell you lads summat you’re missing a bloody trick if you think auto is easier, no it isn’t and i’ll tell you why.Cos unless the training company has Swedish tackle, the delays between pressing the throttle and the gearbox actually doing something on most of the other crap makes driving smoothly harder.
With a clutch there is no delay, soon as you apply a bit of throttle and start to engage that clutch the lorry is yours, you aint waiting for the bally thing to have a meeting and send a memo to the bloody box which might be ignored and they well vote for the wrong gear just to help things along, to make normal progress you have to think and act about a second before you want action to take out some of the delay.
Most manual training gearboxes on artics will be a standard 4 over 4, a simple 4 speed synchromesh box with a switch so when you reach number 4 and want 5 you just flick the switch up (or the lever over to the next gate if its a slapover) and start from number 1 again, honestly its childs play.
Trust me if you learn on manuals and get used to driving with them, you will be as anti the autos as i am…the only real exception to this is the Swedish stuff, Volvos (fitted to Renaults) are class leading autos, and i understand that the new gen Scania gearbox has been improved (it needed it) by fitting a brake to the layshaft which speeds gearchanges up a lot though i’m yet to drive one mesen.
Nothing though can compete with a manual for maneuvering control save the torque converter gearbox as found in a Terberg Tug.
The thing is if you train with a manual you’ll be confident no matter what lorry the job you get chucks you the keys for.
Hi Juddian I agree about the delay. First thing I noticed when I got in the auto truck after foot down, nowt happened, I did find the manual quicker. As a rule I prefe manual cars, my point was passed in an auto but didn’t find this a big step change.
Now I do accept an artic 16 speed with split and hi lo would be a completely differen story…
spacemanZ10:
Juddian:
Hi Juddian I agree about the delay. First thing I noticed when I got in the auto truck after foot down, nowt happened, I did find the manual quicker. As a rule I prefe manual cars, my point was passed in an auto but didn’t find this a big step change.
Now I do accept an artic 16 speed with split and hi lo would be a completely differen story…
A 16 speed sounds hell doesn’t it, but when you break it down it isn’t.
The typical 16 speed will be the standard 4 over 4 i mentioned above, the only difference with the 16 is that you now have a low and high in each of those gears.
In practice you can drive it all day long as a 9 speed, in other words leave it low split and simple use the 8 speed box as normal and when up to cruising speed flick the splitter for high 8th which is then your 9th but in actual fact 16th.
You can run round like that quite happily till you get used to it, until all of a sudden you find yourself wishing for a gear only slightly lower than 8th (your 8th that is) and before you know it you’ve dropped on to your 7th and simultaneously flicked the splitter into high, hey presto that 7th high leads on to making use of all the gears.
Job done.
Attn Gillberry.
Its a pity that ‘autos are more economical’ has become the default line.
The real truth is in the hands of an incompetent driver an auto is better on fuel and kinder to the lorry, but a manual or an auto driven in manual by a driver who uses restraint nous forward planning and maintains momentum as a result can beat the auto consistently.
My everyday truck is a manual and im glad to have gained the experience of using one before they vanish off the face of the earth, they are not to be feared.
Juddian I am only quoting what manufacturers will have you believe , personally I agree with you the correct forward planning will help economy , maintain speed etc unfortunately not all drivers use forward planning some just rely on the truck brakes and throttle rather than reading the road .
Gillberry:
Juddian I am only quoting what manufacturers will have you believe , personally I agree with you the correct forward planning will help economy , maintain speed etc unfortunately not all drivers use forward planning some just rely on the truck brakes and throttle rather than reading the road .
Sadly true, its quite shocking just how late some leave braking (don’t even think about using the auxilliary engine/exhaust brake the maker spent £millions perfecting 
), they must get through a set of pads between each service and a set of discs every other 
I did say that it will never be the case. So it’s all academic but how many threads are there on here about newbies coming unstuck on manuals?
I passed cat c just over a year ago with Pete in an auto after first failing in a manual, retake was in an auto more to protect my finances than anything else. I now drive an auto actros which is fine most of the time but on occasion it can forget itself at a junction, drove an old 4 over 4 dag cf on Saturday and what a pleasure to feel in control again. Not sure I’d want manual all the time due to the places we go but it was nice for a quick run out.
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My 2p is that the testing process is too expensive to add learning a manual box to.
I took the decision that because my first job was going to be “big fleet” it was virtually guaranteed I’d be using an AMT box, and should the need for me to use a manual arise, I would just have to swallow my pride and ask for help if I was unsure. Turns out that swallowing your pride and asking for help is something that you get used to really fast as a newbie, so no big deal!
I’m not a “nippy” driver in my car, so I tend to do the final approach to roundabouts and junctions in a gear I can pull away in. So I’m off the brakes, and have feathered the gas - this works exactly the same in a lorry with an AMT box so personally I’ve not noticed the masses of gearbox lag that so often get brought up.
Sidenote - my class 1 was on a Scania 3-pedal Opticruise box, so there was a clutch for stop/start and manoeuvring.
Juddian:
Gillberry:
Juddian I am only quoting what manufacturers will have you believe , personally I agree with you the correct forward planning will help economy , maintain speed etc unfortunately not all drivers use forward planning some just rely on the truck brakes and throttle rather than reading the road .Sadly true, its quite shocking just how late some leave braking (don’t even think about using the auxilliary engine/exhaust brake the maker spent £millions perfecting
I thought in car world manuals are always more economical even by the manufacturer standards which is why many manuals pay no or lower road fund than licence than the auto equivalent. Plus I know on company cars you would pay more tax on auto due to higher emmisions.
Years ago I did the advanced. As you say Judd, good planning and looking ahead makes a helluva difference!
slowlane:
My 2p is that the testing process is too expensive to add learning a manual box to.I took the decision that because my first job was going to be “big fleet” it was virtually guaranteed I’d be using an AMT box, and should the need for me to use a manual arise, I would just have to swallow my pride and ask for help if I was unsure. Turns out that swallowing your pride and asking for help is something that you get used to really fast as a newbie, so no big deal!
I’m not a “nippy” driver in my car, so I tend to do the final approach to roundabouts and junctions in a gear I can pull away in. So I’m off the brakes, and have feathered the gas - this works exactly the same in a lorry with an AMT box so personally I’ve not noticed the masses of gearbox lag that so often get brought up.
Sidenote - my class 1 was on a Scania 3-pedal Opticruise box, so there was a clutch for stop/start and manoeuvring.
I drove an opticruise once, seemed worst of both worlds, like those auto cars that let you change gear, can’t get into it. If I’m driving an auto I went fully auto, if not will happily use a clutch all day long. Prefer manual tbh.