New driver - advice required on manual entries

Hi all,

I’m passed my test last weekend and my business is a new operator with a standard o licence for 5 vehicles.

I’m looking for some advice please?

I’m an office worker and I’m going to be driving maximum of 1-2 times a month. What I want to know is what do I need to do in regards to manual entries as I could go weeks between driving.

Ive done some research and believe I need to have 28 days worth of records so does that mean I need to keep a log of all my office days?

Also while I’m here my business does most of its work on music festivals is this considered out of scope as it’s private land? Therefore I won’t need my card in?

Thanks in advance

Chris

If staying within the UK then a DIARY Will suffice for other work records

On days where you do drive then other work records for that day are better on a printout roll

Hi Rog

Thank for your quick reply.

So I would need to keep a diary with my 9-5 office work in and for example if I started office work at 9am and then drove at 1pm I would need to record 9-1 as other work on the back of the print out at the end of the day or on blank one?

Thanks again

Neeko1988:
Hi Rog

Thank for your quick reply.

So I would need to keep a diary with my 9-5 office work in and for example if I started office work at 9am and then drove at 1pm I would need to record 9-1 as other work on the back of the print out at the end of the day or on blank one?

Thanks again

I would use blank ones and do 2 copies … 1 for you + 1 for boss

Wot Rog said.
As for the off-road driving query - driving off the public highway is “out of scope” and so is counted as Other Work rather than Driving (for drivers hours and working time purposes). HOWEVER, this only applies on days that you do no on-road driving. On days that you do any driving on public roads, then all driving time for that day needs to be recorded as Driving on your card - i.e. You cannot simply switch to Out Of Scope and pull your card as you enter the site and switch back as and when you drive out onto the road.

ROG:

Neeko1988:
Hi Rog

Thank for your quick reply.

So I would need to keep a diary with my 9-5 office work in and for example if I started office work at 9am and then drove at 1pm I would need to record 9-1 as other work on the back of the print out at the end of the day or on blank one?

Thanks again

I would use blank ones and do 2 copies … 1 for you + 1 for boss

In that situation it would possibly keep things tidier if you used the Manual Entry facility on the tachograph to show your start time as 0900 and Other Work until 1300. Don’t forget to show your breaks.

For non-driving days you don’t need to show breaks in your diary or printout entries - just Start time and Finish time will suffice.

Ok guys great. Thank you for your advice it’s very much appreciated

I suggested using blanks as it seemed he might do office - driving - office in the same shift

ROG:
I suggested using blanks as it seemed he might do office - driving - office in the same shift

Manual input via the tacho when he starts driving then do a printout when he finishes driving for the day with any further work done that day handwritten on the back. If it turns out he doesn’t do any further work that day then chuck the printout (or don’t bother producing it in the first place).

But I don’t want to get into a ■■■■■■■ contest about this (or risk the wrath of the crack-on brigade with accusations of obsessing about it) - as long as the working time is recorded in a consistent manner (using the tacho for the in-vehicle times of course!) DVSA will be happy I’m sure.

Roymondo:

ROG:
I suggested using blanks as it seemed he might do office - driving - office in the same shift

Manual input via the tacho when he starts driving then do a printout when he finishes driving for the day with any further work done that day handwritten on the back. If it turns out he doesn’t do any further work that day then chuck the printout (or don’t bother producing it in the first place).

But I don’t want to get into a ■■■■■■■ contest about this (or risk the wrath of the crack-on brigade with accusations of obsessing about it) - as long as the working time is recorded in a consistent manner (using the tacho for the in-vehicle times of course!) DVSA will be happy I’m sure.

That is a perfectly ok way to do it - as you say - as long as all duties are recorded in a way that is acceptable to DVSA then all is great

Neeko1988:
I’m an office worker and I’m going to be driving maximum of 1-2 times a month. What I want to know is what do I need to do in regards to manual entries as I could go weeks between driving.

Ive done some research and believe I need to have 28 days worth of records so does that mean I need to keep a log of all my office days?

You need to carry any legally required records for the last 28 calendar days which isn’t quite the same as having to carry 28 days of records.

• On days that you do any driving in-scope of EU regulations you should comply with the drivers daily rest requirement.
• In a week in which you drive in-scope of EU regulations you should comply with the drivers weekly rest requirement.

In any week that you do any driving in-scope of EU regulations you should keep records for any other work done in that week, the DVSA require these records to be on printouts or charts, several people have said that the DVSA have told them that they’ll accept records kept in a notebook, which makes sense, but I have no personal experience of that so can only say that officially the records should be on printouts or charts.

On a day that you drive in-scope of EU regulations you should keep a record of all work done since your last rest period, and in accordance with article 34 of regulation (EU) No 165/2014 where possible this should be done by a manual entry into the tachograph (with driver card inserted), when doing this manual entry be sure to include any legally required breaks for the WTD.

In weeks that you do not work in-scope of EU regulations or UK domestic regulations you do not need to keep records for the DVSA.

Neeko1988:
Also while I’m here my business does most of its work on music festivals is this considered out of scope as it’s private land? Therefore I won’t need my card in?

On days that you do not drive on public roads any driving around the festival site would be out of scope of EU regulations, however when driving around the festival site is part of a journey that involves driving on public roads the on-site driving is in-scope of EU regulations.
For instance, if you drive to the festival then drive round the site dropping off at various locations within the site the goods that you took to the site, all of the driving is in-scope of EU regulations because it’s part of the same journey.

Thanks for the comprehensive answers on both questions.

I understand what I need to do now.

Thanks again and I’ll hope to contribute now I’m a member

Hi Guys,

Sorry to ask another question on this but just so i completely understand.

To make it simpler for me, if i started office work at 9 and then needed to drive at 1 could i put my card in and press no on the manual entry screen and the record the other work on a tacho roll?

Then say i drive again two days later i could do the same again, i dont need to put any manual entries at all on the VU tacho along as im recording other work on tacho roll?

Ive watched some videos on you tube on manual entries and i think if i was driving every day it would be easy to do manual entries on the VU but i dont understand how to do them when the shifts are days maybe weeks apart.

Sorry for the questions but i just want to make sure i get it 100% clear.

Thanks

Yes, you can do all the entries by hand-writing on a tacho roll. It’s certainly easier - especially if you are unfamiliar with digital tachos and even more so if you have more to enter than a single period of “other work” before you put your card in. I wouldn’t recommend anyone use the manual entry facility of the tachograph if they have 2 or more days of work/break/rest to input (although it can be done if you really want to).

Neeko1988:
Sorry to ask another question on this but just so i completely understand.

To make it simpler for me, if i started office work at 9 and then needed to drive at 1 could i put my card in and press no on the manual entry screen and the record the other work on a tacho roll?

Then say i drive again two days later i could do the same again, i dont need to put any manual entries at all on the VU tacho along as im recording other work on tacho roll?

Ive watched some videos on you tube on manual entries and i think if i was driving every day it would be easy to do manual entries on the VU but i dont understand how to do them when the shifts are days maybe weeks apart.

Sorry for the questions but i just want to make sure i get it 100% clear.

I would say no, in your example the time from 09:00 to 13:00 should be manually recorded on the driver card, the regulations require you to put manual entries onto your driver card for shifts in-scope of EU regulations, apart from that if you’re using a type 2 tachograph the likelihood is that you would be recording rest on your driver card when you was actually working, in spite of you writing manual entries on paper this is still illegal and won’t look good to the DVSA, especially as you’ve only just got an operators licence, much better to learn to do the job right imo

For clarity: you’re only required to put manual entries onto the driver card for days that you drive in-scope of EU regulations.

By the way, not putting manual entries onto the driver card carries a possible immediate prohibition and £200 fixed penalty, I’m not saying that’s what would happen if you was stopped but it is a possibility (Page 145 - Enforcement Sanctions Policy)

Manual entries may seem hard but once you’ve done it once or twice you’ll realise how easy it is, and apart from anything else it will save you having to keep paper records for 12 months, any legally required printouts you do on days that you’re in-scope of EU regulations must be kept in chronological order for 12 months, if the records are being used to track the working time they have to be kept for a minimum of 24 months.

If you let us know what make and type of tachographs you use someone will be able to tell you how to do the manual entries, alternatively if you have drivers for the five vehicles on the operators licence you could ask one of them to run through the procedure with you.

Now I am confused ha.

I’ll do a bit more research and speak to some people who could show me the best thing to do.

Thanks for your help I’ll get there in the end

tachograph:

Neeko1988:
Sorry to ask another question on this but just so i completely understand.

To make it simpler for me, if i started office work at 9 and then needed to drive at 1 could i put my card in and press no on the manual entry screen and the record the other work on a tacho roll?

Then say i drive again two days later i could do the same again, i dont need to put any manual entries at all on the VU tacho along as im recording other work on tacho roll?

Ive watched some videos on you tube on manual entries and i think if i was driving every day it would be easy to do manual entries on the VU but i dont understand how to do them when the shifts are days maybe weeks apart.

Sorry for the questions but i just want to make sure i get it 100% clear.

I would say no, in your example the time from 09:00 to 13:00 should be manually recorded on the driver card, the regulations require you to put manual entries onto your driver card for shifts in-scope of EU regulations, apart from that if you’re using a type 2 tachograph the likelihood is that you would be recording rest on your driver card when you was actually working, in spite of you writing manual entries on paper this is still illegal and won’t look good to the DVSA, especially as you’ve only just got an operators licence, much better to learn to do the job right imo

For clarity: you’re only required to put manual entries onto the driver card for days that you drive in-scope of EU regulations.

By the way, not putting manual entries onto the driver card carries a possible immediate prohibition and £200 fixed penalty, I’m not saying that’s what would happen if you was stopped but it is a possibility (Page 145 - Enforcement Sanctions Policy)

Manual entries may seem hard but once you’ve done it once or twice you’ll realise how easy it is, and apart from anything else it will save you having to keep paper records for 12 months, any legally required printouts you do on days that you’re in-scope of EU regulations must be kept in chronological order for 12 months, if the records are being used to track the working time they have to be kept for a minimum of 24 months.

If you let us know what make and type of tachographs you use someone will be able to tell you how to do the manual entries, alternatively if you have drivers for the five vehicles on the operators licence you could ask one of them to run through the procedure with you.

Hi mate. According to that sanction thing you put in there, I’m assuming that as a driver with cpc, you would HAVE to put in a manual entry to cover yourself? I can’t imagine there are many times you just turn up and jump in a truck and off you go? i.e: Turn up, go to office, get paperwork, check wagon etc. Although the last one of those you could well put the card in first and set it to other work from that point.

FAIL TO ENTER THE REQUIRED PERIODS OF TIME ONTO THE DRIVER CARD BY USING THE MANUAL ENTRY FACILITY PROVIDED ON THE TACHOGRAPH - DIGITAL- DRIVER

andy_s:
Hi mate. According to that sanction thing you put in there, I’m assuming that as a driver with cpc, you would HAVE to put in a manual entry to cover yourself? I can’t imagine there are many times you just turn up and jump in a truck and off you go? i.e: Turn up, go to office, get paperwork, check wagon etc. Although the last one of those you could well put the card in first and set it to other work from that point.

FAIL TO ENTER THE REQUIRED PERIODS OF TIME ONTO THE DRIVER CARD BY USING THE MANUAL ENTRY FACILITY PROVIDED ON THE TACHOGRAPH - DIGITAL- DRIVER

If there’s any work done, either after taking the card out at the end of the last shift or before inserting the card at the start of the current shift, you’re supposed to do a manual entry to record it, some drivers don’t bother but legally you are supposed to.

Personally I’ve never found it to be a problem doing manual entries, it’s just a matter of doing it once or twice and learning the routine, just like most things in fact

tachograph:
If there’s any work done, either after taking the card out at the end of the last shift or before inserting the card at the start of the current shift, you’re supposed to do a manual entry to record it, some drivers don’t bother but legally you are supposed to.

Personally I’ve never found it to be a problem doing manual entries, it’s just a matter of doing it once or twice and learning the routine, just like most things in fact

True mate. I decided to learn manual entries pretty quick as it seemed something useful to know but do on occasion get lazy and just put it on rest for a minute then eject, next shift ignore manual and just put it on other work for checks.

If there is a possibility of getting fined, I’ll make sure I do the manuals!

Ok so if a written manual entry is no good could somebody maybe talk me through it on a vu.

For example I put my card in and press yes on manual entry it will bring up the last time I drove this could be days/weeks ago. I would put in when the previous shift finished. Then press it to today’s date and manual enter the time I started my office work that day so example 9am and put it as other work.

Then do I need to put a finish time in for the other work for example 1pm and then start driving?

It then brings working time breaks into play etc doesn’t it.

Think I need to go on a course!! I thought when people said above about written records it would be easy